Let me clarify something

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

First of all, hacking ain't a bad thing. It's basiclly what the soldat developers do, only then reversed.
Cheating is the bad thing, since cheating ruins the gameplay.
Creating hacks and cheating is WAY DIFFERENT.
Hacking is just a form of programming, and it's very educative.
Cheating is the use of created hacks for winning.
I hope you understand we do not support cheaters, only hackers.

It seems to me that you're just trying to shift the responsibility for your actions.  Hacking may not be cheating, but it enables cheating.  It's similar to someone telling you "Hey, there's this guy that I want to kill" and you responding, "Alright, I'll drive you to his house and give you a gun."  You're not guilt-free just because you didn't actually commit the crime.

"We do not support cheaters." So why do you release your hacks for everyone to use? If this is purely a programming exercise, as you claim, than there should be no reason to distribute the hacks.  You know that by allowing other people to use the hacks, you're ruining the game for the Soldat community.  Do you care? Obviously not.

"Hacking is what the Soldat developers do, only reversed." Yep.  While they're working to create a balance that makes the game fun for everyone, you're trying to destroy the balance and make the game fun for only yourself.

Second is the way Battle Eye deals with hacks. I understand you want a "hack-free" server, but this has gone to far.
Not us, but Battle Eye is ruing the gameplay since people get randomly banned and the use off applications that hook onto soldat is forbidden. (X-Fire, winamp plugin).
Eventually, we (the hackers) will be able to bypass this, but soldat players won't.

Then the last thing I want to say. You guys (pointing to the development and managment team) think we hate you, we hate soldat and we'l love to destroy both.
That's NOT true. I see it more that we need you and you need us.
We help you improve the security system, while you help us to improve our skills.
It's a cat and mouse game we both play, but please be so fair not to cheat in this game...

Total BS.  If it weren't for you, Soldat wouldn't need any security at all.  Cheaters clearly aren't intelligent enough to write their own hacks, meaning that they wouldn't exist without you.  You're the reason BattleEye was added.  You're the reason that xFire and Winamp don't work.  Playing your "cat and mouse game" with the developers disrupts the progress of the game.  They're busy fixing the problems that you create instead of adding more features.

Continue making hacks if you want, but realize that as long as you do, you're ruining Soldat for the rest of us.  And is the gaining of a small amount of programming skill really worth hurting hundreds of players?

[Slazenger]

Dude have you even read his post? He's trying to communicate with us, and he made clearly he isn't the one promoting cheaters, au contraire, he wants to help improving the game.
Just try to understand him.
Hackers are truly robinhoods ^^

[CiRiON]

Hmm, I understand you guys.
The problem is, that I stopped hacking Soldat since 1.4, cause Battle Eye was to hard for me.
I would like to learn more then simply reversing code, like EnEsCe as example.
Only EnEsCe was more skilled like me.
Anyway, in these few post I've noticed you guys aren't pricks at all, and that you DO understand us.
To me, lack of communication has always been the problem.

But now, we have a serious problem and that's the reason I came here.
We've pushed the limit to far and I'm aware of it.
The problem is, I don't want to be the cause of ruin gameplay for tons of people, neither want to be a traitor to the people on my community.
In my opinion, we need to discuss a lot.
Thanks for your time btw.

[a-4-year-old]

You guys think you are doing something all good or whatever you think of yourselves but you guys are just as bad as the people using the programs you make. The only way to justify any form of hacking would be to come up to MM and say "Hey we at ______ found an exploit that you might want to look into."

But no, you don't do that, instead you let the exploits go unfixed. That is why you are an assmunch who I cannot respect.

[Laser Guy]

just stfu a-4-year-old... I guess u didn't read it all

[Duck Boi]

just stfu a-4-year-old... I guess u didn't read it all

He probably did read it all
But there is 2 different arguments to this thread.

I personally agree with a-4-year-old, as you really should have reported it to MM.
I know you're only trying to make things better, but look where it has gotten things, we wouldn't have had to gone to such extremes like BE to stop hackers.

I know where you're coming from, and I know it isnt all your fault. But the tiniest thing can help add up to the major problem.

[Chakra]

Well Cirion, you're going to have to realise that theres a large fence between Average-Player(1) and the 'Baddies' (hacker community) for a good reason, and such a barrier exists simply because of what everyone's illustrated here. Your community makes and distributes programmes that allow anyone to ruin other people's competitive fun. 

Not really much else to it or anything to be discussed between the two sides, and for either to be friendly with one another would require a large sacrifice from your community. No public distributions or no hacks that get around BattleEye specifically.
For hacking to be non-threatening to gamers it'd have to be kept contained and made towards non-BE'd servers or older versions of Soldat, or restricted to a very private community that isn't gonna leak such items to the public, who could go on to enjoy your changes to Soldat on a private server with other like-minded people.

[Aquarius]

But now, we have a serious problem and that's the reason I came here. In my opinion, we need to discuss a lot.

No, only YOU have a problem. IMO we have nothing to discuss about with people who write hacks. The more problems they have the better. MM asked them to stop writing the hacks but they didn't listen. Now they are crying that writing hacks is to hard? Gimme a Break!

[Slazenger]

Actually Aquarius, it still is bouth our problem since he will continiue hacking our already be-shit-game

[darkangel]

man there is always a guy who is far for the community and can do thing that are dangerous  for the game and us(no hacking players)  anyways let the improvements to the pros or the guys with the legal license to improve the game, is fine if u made mod but u don't messit up whit the normal soldat f11

[mxyzptlk]

I completely agree with Cirion. Thus the distinction between White-hat and Black hat hackers; however, if you make the programs and release them, you are no better than those who use them.

I don't hack and haven't used a hack, but I am an amateur programmer, and I see what you are talking about when it comes to the challenge; however, keep it to yourself or within a certain group and don'tdistribute it further than that.

[Aquarius]

Actually Aquarius, it still is bouth our problem since he will continiue hacking our already be- -game

So we should help him in writing hacks because otherwise he will continue to write hacks? Where is the logic? He should have been banned right away, people who write hacks for multiplayer games are like terrorists who create bombs for others - there should be no discussion with them. The only White-hat hacker here is EnEsCe, because he doesn't do it any more (or at least he said so) and using his skills to do something good.

[mxyzptlk]

Actually Aquarius, it still is bouth our problem since he will continiue hacking our already be- -game

So we should help in writting hacks him because he will continue to writing hacks?

Listen, he has said that he isn't hacking soldat anymore, not since 1.4.0, and is just here, as the title says, for clarification.

[Aquarius]

He isn't hacking 1.4.0 only because he can't do it. And we shouldn't help him in doing this. If he want to test his skills he may choose one of 908490252 other applications to hack.

[mxyzptlk]

Who said we were helping him hack?

[Aquarius]

I dunno, not me.

[mxyzptlk]

He isn't hacking 1.4.0 only because he can't do it. And we shouldn't help him in doing this.

You seem to be implying that we would be helping him hack, which isn't the case; simply understand, that's all he asks.

[Aquarius]

Is it a psychotherapy forum? Anyway, I will never understand people who crate hacks for multiplayer games, spoiling the fun of hundrets of people.

[The Philanthropist]

Just mess around with 1.3.1, make all of your more disingenuous programs there, and when if you want to do something to improve the game, do it in 1.4 and release it with consent through the fan apps board.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Dude have you even read his post?

No I haven't; I just included quotes from it to make my post look pretty. =P

Date Posted: October 09, 2007, 05:19:15 pm

Just mess around with 1.3.1, make all of your more disingenuous programs there

That's an excellent idea.  You can get all of the benefits of learning a programming language without causing problems for players.