Let me clarify something

[Nijez]

Dualistic theory of world

What I said is not even related to Dualistic Theory of World.
I never stated that anti hack protection could not be done without hackers.
Hackers just help pressure devs to fix hacks.

And by the way, the assumption with the "Hackers are bad players" are quite often wrong.
Long time ago (Few years ago..) EnEsCe had a server when he was a hacker and ran a forum. No hacking was allowed and most of the time when members were in the server, they were on top.

Some do it out of boredom or just for laughs.

[Henito Kisou]

I dont mean people who maybe are hackers and can be good at playing but immature people who whining and crying because they cant play Soldat good and at start give it up and just use hacks than doing to fair by skill and hard work, so they ruining all skill and pro of experienced players by waste time or fun from game without chance to fair play

[X-Rayz]

"IMO you need hackers. Just like you need to catch a cold to create an antibody for it."

More retarded logic. If theres no colds, theres no need for an antibody.

[Henito Kisou]

Exactly! But in that way most or all world is insane so cant thinking different, but some people really wants excuse what hackers and similar doing and make them neccessary to exist in gaming or programming.

[Avkon]

"IMO you need hackers. Just like you need to catch a cold to create an antibody for it."

More retarded logic. If theres no colds, theres no need for an antibody.

True.

But the fact is that there ARE colds, and there's nothing you can do about them, except alleviate the consequences.

[.Ryan.]

Just keep your hacks to yourself, hell.. if you want to learn programming go read a c++ book.

[Chakra]

As logical as this 'system' is, creating hacks to help pressure a dev towards securing his product, it has in the end harmed soldat and brought BE to this inevitable conclusion.

Michal could've messed around with bugs, balance, new game modes or features, all things that he wants to do with his game, but instead the past few versions have been about introducing and stabilising BE. He was pressured into doing that due to the abundance of hacks in Soldat, as it required an effective 'antibody'. And like with so many anti-hack systems, sacrifices eventually get made from the user towards the security of the game.

Theres a much simpler way to help with the bloody ecosystem of Soldat, and it's right under your noses. If hackers don't like BE, I suggest that instead of improving the virus, they help improve the antibody more directly than passively. It really doesn't get simpler than that, and theres no real justification not to.


Cirion, if you have some bright ideas to render this scenario to a better conclusion, theres nothing stopping you e-mailing or using the forums to PM Michal and/or Sable, both of whom respond to both promptly. You can even come on Quakenet IRC if you like as they're often found on there. Good luck to you either way.

[Nijez]

"IMO you need hackers. Just like you need to catch a cold to create an antibody for it."

More retarded logic. If theres no colds, theres no need for an antibody.

There will always be colds and there will always be other people to abuse exploits in games.
If it wasn't for one group of people hacking soldat; there would have been another group
to have come along and hack it up.

And Chakra, I agree. I said there is no justification; but hackers still offhandidly help. Hacking the game in private
and reporting vulnerabilities to MM would be the best way. The only unique way hackers would help as opposed to the the nicer alternative listed above is; by causing hell and releasing hacks, they are holding a tourch under MM's ass, thus they get fixed faster

Like you said though, there still is no way to justify it.

And while MM could have been adding in features, I think a good antihack is the best thing for a game above all. Good features
dont keep players if everyone else runs around turning good features into game ruining hacks.



Thats bout all. Sayin anything else would be repeating myself. I got my piece out there.

[$able]

As logical as this 'system' is, creating hacks to help pressure a dev towards securing his product, it has in the end harmed soldat and brought BE to this inevitable conclusion.

It has nothing to do with pressure or anything like that, I am just trying to add effective detection methods and as I already said numerous times, the current D3D hook detection is the only effective one.

[LtKillroy]

I tell you what, hacks = bad.
Even if you don't release them for the general public, the general public WILL get their hands on them.
BE = Good. People don't get randomly kicked if they have it d/led (usually). And I have seen 1 hacker since it was released. And who cares if you can't run like a music program or Xfire in the background, too bad. Will no background music ruin your game as much as a hacker?
In conclusion, if you want to ruin the game for your own enjoyment, do it on bots. They don't get mad.

[CiRiON]

Hmmm, we'll see. I woke you guys up, that was the whole idea behind this.
I hope that BattlEye will improve.
Succes here everyone, I'm out again.

[ChiefBlackFoot]

For those of you who think true hackers actually hinder the security instead of helping - let ME clarify something.

Remember that vulnerability with the server file download system in 1.3.1?  I found that with some common sense and a bit of knowledge about delphi strings and c-style strings.  It was literally possible to download ANY file on ANY computer hosting ANY version of soldat server.  What did I do with this?  Play with it for a while until EnEsCe and Chrisgbk saw it.  That was probably one of the biggest security vulnerabilities that soldat has ever seen, which could have been exploited to do some pretty awful things.  Instead, me and a couple friends just screwed with it a bit until it became known that it existed.

Or how about that ARSSE bug that I found and helped fix?  I could have ran rampant throughout soldat getting admin access to every single server, but I chose to help the developer of ARSSE fix the bug.

Or, how about that other vulnerability I found that let me host a fake soldat server where everyone that joins downloads a dll from me?  That could have been used for the most evil purposes of all: spreading a massive trojan throughout soldat.  What did I do with it?  I waited until the day before 1.4 came out and simply uploaded a version of my hack to some people as a prank, because I wanted that bug to become known.
I have been accused of exploiting vulnerabilities numerous times, but the problem is that I INFORMED Chrisgbk, EnEsCe, and some other soldat devs about this last vulnerability about a month before this time.  The problem is, nobody listened or took me seriously at all because I am considered the "evil hacker of soldat".  Sometimes we have to screw around with the vulnerabilities that we find in order to make sure that they get noticed, since nobody takes us seriously when we just tell the developers about them.

[.Ryan.]

It's a shame soldat is like this. It's always been a vulnerable game to hack which is a shame.. Why pick on a small game that was created by 1 guy.

Anyway, thanks.. to the very small minority of exploiters who atchually helped in the development of Soldat.

I played against a guy the other week who created his own aimbot app, he lost the match then he even offered it me!! that's the shi* that's not acceptable --keep it to youself, dont spread your cancer around

[BondJamesBond]

This is stupid. You guys need to create hacks in order to inform the developers of game vulnerabilities and problems. While you're creating these hacks:

A) We've found out already
B) Someone is already exploiting the vulnerabilities
C) MM is working is ass off to repair the problem

When you decide to release the hacks and show everyone, "Oh look: there's a problem. Use this hack to tell you what the problem is":

A) Someone gets a hold of the hack and uses it.
C) MM has to work harder now because you just split the vulnerability wide open.

This is what I think:

[echo_trail]

Since we're a community I can controll everything people are doing, and if it's going out of line (like soldat doom script for 1.3.1 wich has a massive DoS attack) I can stop it.

...later:

I know many of mine community have forgotten this, and release their creations everywhere on the net not realising the damage they bring.

Pissing in the wind, anyone?

Also seems to me like you start out by stating that BE has gone too far, that it has become too effective. End up with you trying to defent he very point of hacking..

Nah, mate. I don't think it's under control, not one bit.

[Chakra]

Nice little drawing. Can't see anything I disagree with Bond.

Another little thing to remember is that Michal, Sable, and Enesce only do what they do as a hobby essentially. Its something done in their spare time out of personal interest. Theres no money to offer incentive. It's unfair to 'demand' these vulnerabilities be addressed when what you're demanding is they work to make you happy when they've their own lives and jobs to lead.... except Michal, who lives in his mother's basement playing Guitar Hero on expert mode until 2 in the morning. But the principle still stands.

The difference with commercial titles is that money is an incentive. Money plays an important role in suggesting further support on a title. Is it cost effective to further support a game? That varies completely on circumstance and those involved.

So, really...no matter the game, there is always a better way to expose vulnerabilities than by introducing them to the public. Pressure in such a situation does not get things done sooner and better. Highlights the problem, maybe, but it really doesn't speed up or improve matters.




...I can see it now, Michal sitting at a smokey bar in Poland, his 330ml bottle of cheap beer rattling in his hand as the stress gets to him. "Right now, even as I drink, theres people hax0ring in my game and making players unhappy." He thinks to himself.
The glass in his hand shatters under the pressure! He storms home and turns on his PC without so much as a thought and declares to the world with a booming voice that they should worry no more, he is here. He is here! He is here to be our beacon of hope, and to make Soldat the most secure gaming experience known to man, and all those that dare stand in his path shall quake in fear and hide in shadows, for he shall not eat, drink or sleep until his work his done. Amen.


It just doesn't happen, does it.