knives rocks!!!11 maybe a bit too much?

[O.R.I.O.N.]

Could you ladies stop bitching about each other's grammar and focus on the topic at hand?

The knife doesn't need tweaking IMO. Leave it alone.

[JonWood007]

IMO knife is overpowered. So overpowered that i type "lame" whenever I am killing with the thing. It is. It seems like some sort of lame wimpy weapon that people pull out and kill you with its uber 1 hit kill goodness because they ran out of bullets. So lame. It also has the least amount of restrctions on it. The barrett has moveacc, fire delay, and 4 second between shots. LAW has the whole crouch and fire thing. Chainsaw is point blank range. Even the M79 has the restrction where you need to load it up at the beginning. But the Knife, you just pull it out and throw. Its lame. People can just spawn and then throw it like 1 second later at this point.

I would say it is one of the most overpowered and cheap weapons of the game. Only reason I use socom is because I stink with knife. However, stinking with it doesnt mean its not good. SOCOM is also a bit overpowered, seeing how sometimes i pwn with it more than i do with the primaries, but that is a different story.

[Ziem]

excruciator - ... ok sorry xD I missed this "if" in text

IMO knife is overpowered. So overpowered that i type "lame" whenever I am killing with the thing. It is. It seems like some sort of lame wimpy weapon that people pull out and kill you with its uber 1 hit kill goodness because they ran out of bullets. So lame. It also has the least amount of restrctions on it. The barrett has moveacc, fire delay, and 4 second between shots. LAW has the whole crouch and fire thing. Chainsaw is point blank range. Even the M79 has the restrction where you need to load it up at the beginning. But the Knife, you just pull it out and throw. Its lame. People can just spawn and then throw it like 1 second later at this point.

I would say it is one of the most overpowered and cheap weapons of the game. Only reason I use socom is because I stink with knife. However, stinking with it doesnt mean its not good. SOCOM is also a bit overpowered, seeing how sometimes i pwn with it more than i do with the primaries, but that is a different story.

Yeah. So lame. Cheap weapon with no restrictions : delay, only one knife, and time you'll waste to switch weapon.

"... kill you with its uber 1 hit kill goodness because they ran out of bullets. ..." in most situations I see knifers throwing their knife BEFORE they run out of bullets

"People can just spawn and then throw it like 1 second later at this point. "  no comments. switch+invic delay+knife throw delay time ... everyone will kill you if you'll try do it (I'm not talking about Majors)

So you think that knife is so powerful?
... "I stink with knife." ... and the sad fact is : knife reqiures a lot of skill. If weapon reqiures a lot of skill, how it could be lame?

[excruciator]

IMO knife is overpowered. So overpowered that i type "lame" whenever I am killing with the thing. It is. It seems like some sort of lame wimpy weapon that people pull out and kill you with its uber 1 hit kill goodness because they ran out of bullets. So lame. It also has the least amount of restrctions on it. The barrett has moveacc, fire delay, and 4 second between shots. LAW has the whole crouch and fire thing. Chainsaw is point blank range. Even the M79 has the restrction where you need to load it up at the beginning. But the Knife, you just pull it out and throw. Its lame. People can just spawn and then throw it like 1 second later at this point.

I would say it is one of the most overpowered and cheap weapons of the game. Only reason I use socom is because I stink with knife. However, stinking with it doesnt mean its not good. SOCOM is also a bit overpowered, seeing how sometimes i pwn with it more than i do with the primaries, but that is a different story.

zomfg the 1st person that agreed with me!!

you are perfectly right, knife has the least restrictions of all weapons..

Date Posted: October 20, 2007, 03:01:59 pm

excruciator - ... ok sorry xD I missed this "if" in text

IMO knife is overpowered. So overpowered that i type "lame" whenever I am killing with the thing. It is. It seems like some sort of lame wimpy weapon that people pull out and kill you with its uber 1 hit kill goodness because they ran out of bullets. So lame. It also has the least amount of restrctions on it. The barrett has moveacc, fire delay, and 4 second between shots. LAW has the whole crouch and fire thing. Chainsaw is point blank range. Even the M79 has the restrction where you need to load it up at the beginning. But the Knife, you just pull it out and throw. Its lame. People can just spawn and then throw it like 1 second later at this point.

I would say it is one of the most overpowered and cheap weapons of the game. Only reason I use socom is because I stink with knife. However, stinking with it doesnt mean its not good. SOCOM is also a bit overpowered, seeing how sometimes i pwn with it more than i do with the primaries, but that is a different story.

Yeah. So lame. Cheap weapon with no restrictions : delay, only one knife, and time you'll waste to switch weapon.

"... kill you with its uber 1 hit kill goodness because they ran out of bullets. ..." in most situations I see knifers throwing their knife BEFORE they run out of bullets

"People can just spawn and then throw it like 1 second later at this point. "  no comments. switch+invic delay+knife throw delay time ... everyone will kill you if you'll try do it (I'm not talking about Majors)

So you think that knife is so powerful?
... "I stink with knife." ... and the sad fact is : knife reqiures a lot of skill. If weapon reqiures a lot of skill, how it could be lame?

knife's delay is nearly regrettable.. it takes more or less 1 sec(less mostly, I think) to throw something that will kill you instantly..
compare it to the law: law has more delay, and it also require the shooter to stay on the solid ground..
So stop bring the delay up.

also how long would take you to freakin switch?!?!?!?!?  you can switch weapons in a fraction of a second... and also every secondary has to deal with the switch and knife is not soo special..

3rd and last, I dont think the skill and restriction balance out because knife does not take crazy skill to control it. and yet the restriction put on it is so loosely (work with me here, dunno how to phrase it better) that it negletable

I just think there should be a secondary that "usable" other than the knife thats all...

more delay should do it.

[Ziem]

More delay will make knife crappy ;F
And there is something special in knife and switch ; you have to THROW it, and sometimes if you wanna do it too fast, you drop your primary ;Q ...

Law and socom are "usable".
< some ... people (xD) ... say that saw is usable, but it isn't in most situations - imho saw is a bit like minigun >

I think that this conversation can be endless, cuz no one will convience another xD

[.Ryan.]

The knifes as good as the thrower, basically, as is any other weapon in soldat

[yv3]

yes, and i think its quite balanced in the soldat world. I play often pub DM and i don't see often any good knifers around. Only on n00b servers the one better player frags often at close range. But in that case, you could easily pwn such a server with knife as a primary also.

[excruciator]

And there is something special in knife and switch ; you have to THROW it, and sometimes if you wanna do it too fast, you drop your primary ;Q ...

.... thats your fault... Hey I sometime drop the law, but should it have faster reload?

Law and socom are "usable".
< some ... people (xD) ... say that saw is usable, but it isn't in most situations - imho saw is a bit like minigun >

minigun is usable, saw is usable, hell fists are very usable. You can use everything, but is the effectiveness that we are talking about.


Date Posted: October 20, 2007, 08:20:04 pm

The knifes as good as the thrower, basically, as is any other weapon in soldat

but there are a lot of crappy knifers that uses knife at point blank range yet getting what he wanted, a kill.

I agree but knife also has the least restrictions of all 1 hit killers, has no bink, lowest delay, and most versitile, also you can spawn with it.(unlike a second m79, or barrett, which you have to get it). So that would make knife unbalacanced

Date Posted: October 20, 2007, 08:22:41 pm

yes, and i think its quite balanced in the soldat world. I play often pub DM and i don't see often any good knifers around. Only on n00b servers the one better player frags often at close range. But in that case, you could easily pwn such a server with knife as a primary also.

No, and I dont think that is quite balanced in the soldat world. I never play pub DMs and there are a lot of good knifers around. Only knifers in fact. In that case, we should balance the game just because of that cuz in a balanced game where no weapon is firmly above anyother weapon, there shouldn't be such uniformities(?)

[Twistkill]

Goddammit it... I'm tired of your arrogance towards the knife and, subsequently, us who use it.

Do you realize how slow a knife throw is? Ad how limited the range is? It takes quite a good amount of skill to calculate where it's going to end up in about 1 second from when you throw it, because Soldat is fast-paced. It's not "*switch* and *KILL*", you still need to take into account the delay, even if it isn't very big, and the trajectory. You're only taking into account its major strengths in comparison to the other secondaries, and using it as your arguments while completely ignoring its 3 major weaknesses, range and speed, and the fact that once its thrown you need to go get it again. By this time you'll be around 30% health and you still need to catch up to the guy you missed. You're only acknowledging those who agree with you, like JonWood, and shunning everyone who disagrees, which is completely stupid.

How about we play a 1 vs 1, you use only knife, and I'll use anything that I want. I'll show you how its range can easily be matched.

[excruciator]

Goddammit it... I'm tired of your arrogance towards the knife and, subsequently, us who use it.

my pleasure..

Do you realize how slow a knife throw is?

Is is really that slow?

Ad how limited the range is?

is it really that limited?? I've seen 50m knife kills, and I see 10-20 knife kills all the time... and you are most of the time close to your opponent in DM anyway... If 10m range is all you need, why ask for more?

t takes quite a good amount of skill to calculate where it's going to end up in about 1 second from when you throw it, because Soldat is fast-paced.

...So...only knife you have to calculate its path. :/

You're only taking into account its major strengths in comparison to the other secondaries, and using it as your arguments while completely ignoring its 3 major weaknesses, range and speed

If 10m range is all you need, why ask for more? if the speed is enough, why ask for more?
also the strength of knife is enough to compensate it weaknesses. and the fact that you dont need that much range most of the time, its not that big of a deal if you dont have that much of it.

you need to go get it again. By this time you'll be around 30% health and you still need to catch up to the guy you missed.

are you saying that....knife should be able to be picked up faster so the knifer can garantee the kill even if he misses the first throw?

You're only acknowledging those who agree with you, like JonWood, and shunning everyone who disagrees, which is completely stupid.

If I acknowledged you there wouldn't be any arguement... + the fact that you did not acknowledge any of mine... so we are even, and you can stop bring that up.

How about we play a 1 vs 1, you use only knife, and I'll use anything that I want. I'll show you how its range can easily be matched.

Yeah I'm cool with the 1 on 1, but like a said on my first post(god people read before you post) I'm not a knifer, I find the knife overpowered, overused and perhaps overrated.

[Twistkill]

Do you realize how slow a knife throw is?

Is is really that slow?

Yes, it is. It's about 60 - the slowest moving projectile in the entire game. This also determines its initial range...

Ad how limited the range is?

is it really that limited?? I've seen 50m knife kills, and I see 10-20 knife kills all the time... and you are most of the time close to your opponent in DM anyway... If 10m range is all you need, why ask for more?

50 M knife kills is a screen away, dude. The knife can barely reach that even from an insane height, and it takes a lot of planning and pure luck that your opponent doesn't move out of the way in the 3 damn seconds that it takes to reach there.

I never said that it needs more range, I'm saying it's fine the way it is. Of course you're going to see 10 - 20 M knife kills! Almost every gun is easy to use at that range, buddy. You just seem to have an extreme bias against the knife because people can learn it's curve, kill you with it, and you're just jealous because you can't return the favor.

t takes quite a good amount of skill to calculate where it's going to end up in about 1 second from when you throw it, because Soldat is fast-paced.

...So...only knife you have to calculate its path. :/

Where the hell did you get that from? I never said that. Stop putting words in my mouth. I was implying that it's the hardest to determine its trajectory, not the only one.

You're only taking into account its major strengths in comparison to the other secondaries, and using it as your arguments while completely ignoring its 3 major weaknesses, range and speed

If 10m range is all you need, why ask for more? if the speed is enough, why ask for more?
also the strength of knife is enough to compensate it weaknesses. and the fact that you dont need that much range most of the time, its not that big of a deal if you dont have that much of it.

None of us are asking for more range, dude. It's enough, yes - and we're saying that it's balanced that way, not that it's actually weak and needs a buff.

you need to go get it again. By this time you'll be around 30% health and you still need to catch up to the guy you missed.

are you saying that....knife should be able to be picked up faster so the knifer can garantee the kill even if he misses the first throw?

Oh my god, where do you get this shit from? First of all, you can't even make the "recovering weapon" process faster without increasing the speed of Soldat, and you pick up all guns at the same rate. You really need to stop committing Straw Man fallacies here, buddy, you're hurting yourself.

You're only acknowledging those who agree with you, like JonWood, and shunning everyone who disagrees, which is completely stupid.

If I acknowledged you there wouldn't be any arguement...

Untrue - acknowledging the opposition and arguments are not mutually exclusive, my dear friend.

[Ziem]

excruciator -
Quote
Law and socom are "usable".
< some ... people (xD) ... say that saw is usable, but it isn't in most situations - imho saw is a bit like minigun Grin >

minigun is usable, saw is usable, hell fists are very usable. You can use everything, but is the effectiveness that we are talking about.


... I thought that you'll understand what I mean. Yes, you can use everything, but only minigun and saw aren't effective.

"is it really that limited?? I've seen 50m knife kills, and I see 10-20 knife kills all the time... and you are most of the time close to your opponent in DM anyway... If 10m range is all you need, why ask for more?"
Above ~20 meters, knife frags are only lucky ( if your opponent is moving, not only *falling* <or camping.. doh> ) ...

Twistkill- "Untrue - acknowledging the opposition and arguments are not mutually exclusive, my dear friend." Thx for these words ...


Sorry but I DON'T UNDERSTAND what the hell do you want. Make range shorter, delay bigger, dmg lower... Everyone can complain about any weapon, ok. But knife is one of the most balanced weapons in Soldat!
... If your opp is on higher pos, you can't kill him unless you are extremly close ...
... If you'll miss, you've wasted a lot of time ...
... It has delay ...
... It is short range only ...
... You have only 1 ( ONE ) knife, ok, you can pick it up, of course this sprayer/barretard/m79er/whatever else will let you walk, pick it up, and throw again. Yeaaaaaaaah.

[excruciator]

never said that it needs more range, I'm saying it's fine the way it is.

None of us are asking for more range, dude. It's enough, yes

TK, If you said the range is enough, why did you bring it up as a disadvantage? surely if you think that the range is more than enough to stab or kill, there is no need for you to bring "range" up any longer.

Also, you said that every gun is good at the range of 10-20ms. But knife is effectively better because its a 1 hit killer, which you spawn with it therefore you have no need to find it, and it doesnt have bink, or moviment acc(?) and a very short delay. (shorter than law, and barrett, and minigun) Sure all guns are effective, but a 1 hit killer will be able to kill before the opposition deals lethal damage. (since range is enough and you dont want more, range is not a problem, so I dont have to mention it again  )

Where the hell did you get that from? I never said that. Stop putting words in my mouth. I was implying that it's the hardest to determine its trajectory, not the only one.

why did you bring up something that is in common in all weapons then?

Sorry but I DON'T UNDERSTAND what the hell do you want. Make range shorter, delay bigger, dmg lower...

ok you pulled those 2 out of your ass..

Everyone can complain about any weapon, ok. But knife is one of the most balanced weapons in Soldat!

No.

... If your opp is on higher pos, you can't kill him unless you are extremly close ...

true, a restriction, but not always work.

... If you'll miss, you've wasted a lot of time ...

you are not forced to use the knife when you are not sure if you will hit or not, thats why you have a primary

... It has delay ...

Needs some more

... It is short range only ...

never said that it needs more range, I'm saying it's fine the way it is.

None of us are asking for more range, dude. It's enough, yes

... You have only 1 ( ONE ) knife, ok, you can pick it up, of course this sprayer/barretard/m79er/whatever else will let you walk, pick it up, and throw again. Yeaaaaaaaah.

the prob is that I cant really make you stop walking, nor stoping you from pick it up and throwing at me.


another problem that knife has become too good of a spawnkilling weapon(I mean when you and your opponent respawn). because it has the least delay and it has a range.
I'm not asking a incredible nerf, I just think the delay can go back to that of 1.3.1, thats all.

[mxyzptlk]

My opinion:

Knife: Good for the occasional short range throw
Law: Good for long distance kills and suicides
Socom: Well balanced secondary, can be used to finish someone off when primary runs out of ammo
Saw: Good for use when the enemies are in a line

This whole thread is about opinions. Excrutiator, it is YOU who is in the one percent. One percent of people think the knife is over-powered. I personally think that the law and socom are better in more situations.

[excruciator]

My opinion:

Knife: Good for the occasional short range throw
Law: Good for long distance kills and suicides
Socom: Well balanced secondary, can be used to finish someone off when primary runs out of ammo
Saw: Good for use when the enemies are in a line

This whole thread is about opinions. Excrutiator, it is YOU who is in the one percent. One percent of people think the knife is over-powered. I personally think that the law and socom are better in more situations.

and you are just like the rest of 99% that wants to protect a overpowered weapon at all cost because you use it!!!!! 

[mxyzptlk]

What?
No, I rarely use the knife. In fact, I wouldn't care either way.

Read my post before you reply.

[Ziem]

excruciator - "Make range shorter, delay bigger, dmg lower... " - yeah. I just wrote whatever I thought about making knife more like a combat fork.

"the prob is that I cant really make you stop walking, nor stoping you from pick it up and throwing at me." - huh? Anyone will kill you if you'll just walk to pick up a knife...

"I'm not asking a incredible nerf, I just think the delay can go back to that of 1.3.1, thats all." - I don't see so big difference between 1.3.1 and 1.4.2 ...

EDIT : Ah. So now knife is "omfgwtfbbq" weapon, but in 1.3.1 it was balanced??

[excruciator]

there was as many lawers as knifers back in 1.3.1.. and now there are much more knifers than lawers... something enabled us to change. what is it? the only difference is the range and the delay, but if the range was decreased, wouldnt there be more lawers than knifers? so I conclude that the delay is what makes people choose knife over law, or knife over saw, or knife over socom.

and that uniformity(?) is not balance.

huh? Anyone will kill you if you'll just walk to pick up a knife...

Huh? what?

[mxyzptlk]

there was as many lawers as knifers back in 1.3.1.. and now there are much more knifers than lawers... something enabled us to change.

Practice?

More people got better at it, which encourages people to practice it.
In fact, I don't think it even changed much from 1.3.1 to 1.4.

[Ziem]

Quote
huh? Anyone will kill you if you'll just walk to pick up a knife...

Huh? what?


I mean that if player1 is running to knife <to pick it> while player2 is near, player2 will kill player1 (he'll do nothing. running to pick up a knife is *doing nothing*, just like waiting to die) (sorry about crappy english knowledge xD)