On the nature of humanity

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Anyone remember that part in the Matrix when Mouse tells Neo, "To deny our own impulses is to deny the very thing that makes us human"?  Well, it sounds deep and all, and Neo seems to buy it, but it sounds like complete nonsense to me.  Denying our impulses is exactly what makes us human, since any animal follows its impulses.

So how do you define humanity? What makes us different from other animals?  Is it intelligence? Is it culture? Is it a conscience? Why is hunting legal but murder illegal? Why is murder illegal but abortion legal? Why is selective breeding legal but racial discrimination illegal?

Where do you draw the line between humans and animals, and why?

[yv3]

If humans would deny their impulses (although its not completely possible even if you meditate all the time, i think), they would be like machines with no unique emotional identity. That is what the mouse wanted to say, i think.

Both human and animals have natural instincts and they are imprisoned by the autonomous parts of their brain structure and physics. I think the big difference is the presence of counciousness that enables reflecting about yourself. It is an additional brain part that defines the difference between a human and a rat.
Science had proven that also some animals have cociousness. But their brain isn't complex enough to achieve the goals that humans are able to. Culture and conscience is a conclusion of that.

Hunting is legal because it is funny for some people and because many people think humans are the only one that have conciousness. It's an philosophical discussion. Hunting could also have some postive rational aspects (preventing overpopulation for instance). I would also like to hunt in a big forest but maybe i couldn't kill an animal at the end or would have bad conscience after it (I'd rathe like to pwn n00bs with my knife in Soldat). It is always a fight between the instincts and the rational part of the brain. Check out MM's blog (mm.soldat.pl). There are some related thoughts there.

Abortion and Murdering both decides whether someone can live or not. Abortion is often tolerated  because there is no clear definition when life and cociousness start to be present.

Selective Breading restricts genes, preventing racial discrimination restricts "bad" behavior. I think that mostly the parents and the environment form your behavior, not the genes. Therefore there is a diffence between the two things fo me. But selective breeding can also be bad because it describes mouse's statement. On the other hand the technics can be helpful for diseased people and you can't stop the humans curiousity anyway. I think we have to accept it in a specific way.

[VijchtiDoodah]

What makes you think you're different from any other animal?

[a-4-year-old]

What makes you think you're different from any other animal?

I can type?

[Graham]

What makes you think you're different from any other animal?

I can type?

I can right click... Oh thats macs... nevermind >.>

Really there are differences in behavior and intelligence between humans and animals. Being someone that stabbed bunnies in the face with a needle for a living you should know that vijcht...

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

What makes you think you're different from any other animal?

Humans as a whole tend to believe that they are superior to most life and non-life on earth.  Obviously, in the cosmic sense humans have very little importance.  However, on a local (planetary) level, there are definitely differences between humans and animals, and I'm trying to learn which of those differences people think are important.

[VijchtiDoodah]

But there are none.  You function on the same basic chemical reactions as every living thing.  Your behavior is similar to other animals in many ways.  You even create and use tools just as others do.  Many assume our superior cognition sets us apart, but that is only an arrogant delusion: many animals are superior to us and each other in a variety of ways, what special place does cognition hold?

From a biological perspective, the only differences between you and all other animals is that you are either unable or unwilling to breed with them and that you have a unique assortment of traits that identifies you as a member of Homo sapiens.  But every other animal is unique in exactly the same way.

Humanity is nothing special.

[Graham]

Humanity is nothing special.

Tell that to my non-poop tossing thumbs!

[7th_account]

What makes you think you're different from any other animal?

I can type?

There's also a vast differance between pygmy chimpanzees and snails. The chimpanzees live in societies, gather food, use tools, have great motor skills and have senses or right or wrong. They can communicate, use facial expressions, feel sadness, anger, friendship and are very keen on solving issues with sex. Snails on the other hand are just stupid slime that would die if put in a teflon pan. Obviously there is a powerful overmind that created pygmy chimpanzees as the crown jewels of the universe, and all other animals as just there for their amusement.

[VijchtiDoodah]

Humanity is nothing special.

Tell that to my non-poop tossing thumbs!

Some time during your life, little pinworms will wiggle out of your anus and cause a nasty itch.  You will scratch it, the pinworm larvae will become lodged under your fingernails, and later you will unintentionally eat them to complete their life cycle.  There is a good chance that you've already done this several times.

While monkeys may throw their poop as an effective means of warding off others, you will be busy eating parasites that recently crawled out of your intestines.  Am I supposed to believe there is something special about you?

[Svirin Kerath]

If you want to talk superiority, look no further than the AIDs virus. It's not even technically alive, but we have no way of stopping it. We have gotten to a point where we can slow it down, but really, we cannot declare ourselves superior.

There are insignificant little bugs that can kill us within hours, or even minutes, of one bite.

We must define 'superiority.' We also must define 'intelligence.'

Also, after the rash of "what do u think of teh ___ above you" threads, why the sudden rash of philosophical ones?

Perhaps it is as I said, the Soldat Forums is a place for sophisticated debate.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

But there are none.  You function on the same basic chemical reactions as every living thing.  Your behavior is similar to other animals in many ways.  You even create and use tools just as others do.  Many assume our superior cognition sets us apart, but that is only an arrogant delusion: many animals are superior to us and each other in a variety of ways, what special place does cognition hold?

You've just contradicted yourself.  There can be no superiority if there are no differences.  Obviously those superior animals must be different from humans in some way.  What is that difference? What about those animals makes them better than us?

Those are the sort of answers that I'm looking for in this discussion.  You'll notice I never once argued that humans were superior to animals, only different.  But you're so busy telling me that humans are nothing that you've missed my entire point.

[KorrupT MerC]

Ok gamer, lets say we put a human in the wilderness, now not a human who has been tainted by civilization, but one who has a true hunting instinct as any animal does.

Now without tools, would a human be able to survive against a lion? crocodile? ... Most likely no, so i believe humans are not superior but we are surviving, using what we were given to our advantage, as a lion would use tall dead grass to hide from an antelope. In our case its intelligence, without our tools and technology we are just another animal trying to make it.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Yet another person misses the point.

But, at least he suggested a component of humanity.

[KorrupT MerC]

Miss the point? You asked what draws the line between animals and humans and that is mostly due to superior intelligence, imo. What more do you want?

[Smegma]

Well, humans also knowingly override their urge to procreate, to the point where they don't pass on any genes at all.

I'm not biologist, not sure if any other creatures exhibit this trait.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Miss the point? You asked what draws the line between animals and humans and that is mostly due to superior intelligence, imo. What more do you want?

Well, you seemed to be trying to dispute humans' superiority over animals, which had nothing to do with my original post.  I might have misunderstood you, but that's what I thought you were saying.

[KorrupT MerC]

What makes us different from other animals?

I'm mainly focused on this question^

What i meant in that post was not to say humans are superior, it was to show what our place is in this world and how we use what is given to us to survive like any other animal does. Lions use strength and speed, crocs will use the water, stealth and strength... all to survive. Humans we use our intelligence to survive by making tools and weapons to assist us as we do not have the strength and even weight of a lion to hunt, so we have to improvise. So i would say we are superior when it comes to intelligence but when it comes to physical attributes, we arent the top of the food chain, if you get what im saying.

Im not very good at explaining the intellectual thoughts in my head, but hopefully i kinda cleared it up for you.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Ah, so humanity is composed of an increased intellect to negate the disadvantages of decreased physical ability.  I got you.

[karmazon]

Well, humans also knowingly override their urge to procreate, to the point where they don't pass on any genes at all.

I'm not biologist, not sure if any other creatures exhibit this trait.

You just say that cause you're an engineer you virgin.