The beginning

[Tallacaps]

Viruses are not alive > They don't even reproduce, they are reproduced by living cells.

You are basically a machine

And you.
I don't know if viruses are alive. You cannot do it too.

[Svirin Kerath]

We're the closest thing to Gods we'll ever know... We can build gigantic cities and destroy entire forests, we can harness nuclear energy as weaponry and we can save people from death with medicine.

Here is a little joke I learned that can be kind of a response to this. Its a pastor joke...  so don't expect a laugh >.>

One day a group of scientist got together and looked at all the marvelous things mankind has done. So they decided to talk to God, they did and told Him they humanity so scientifically that they don't need God anymore. God told them to prove themselves right. To do so they would have to make an animal out of dirt and bring it to life. So the scientists went out to collect dirt, right before they started to collect the dirt God showed up and said, "No, get your own dirt."

Basically the point is that science and engineering aren't equal to being a god. Its taking something thats already here and  putting it to another use.

How do we know what god made? [i originally typo-ed 'god' as 'dos' there, lol]. If god made everything, did he then make bacteria and viruses? Because we took something like Polio, which caused devistation, and turned it into a vaccine, which is almost pure goodness, and wiped polio out completely.

I find these double standards frustrating.

[frogboy]

god works in mysterious ways and he has to allow free choice which is why polio exists.

have you ever heard of gay bowel syndrome? god made that to kill homosexuals.

[Svirin Kerath]

god works in mysterious ways and he has to allow free choice which is why polio exists.

have you ever heard of gay bowel syndrome? god made that to kill homosexuals.

..What? Have you heard of testicular cancer, which god made to kill men?

"god works in mysterious ways and he has to allow free choice which is why polio exists." What does that mean? I don't see how the two statements are related.

[Will]

I have my own explanation f the universe. I read somewhere that the universe is getting bigger and bigger. Well if it all came from a single particle that imploded or whatever there weren't even light before that. So I am thinking as the first light that ever existed still travels to the edgeof the space, is space expanding just because the light reached there? I know it sounds weird but just think about it.

[Fluffy]

And where did this particle come from?

[Barry]

And where did this god come from?

[O.R.I.O.N.]

What god?

[Fluffy]

I'm sorry, but I don't believe in any god, not anymore.

[mar77a]

And where did this god come from?

He has always existed and will forever exist.

I know what comes next: "but but this parcicle existedj before too xD!!". Excuse me, but an almighty God that has always existed sounds much more logical than a particle...

[Barry]

but an almighty God that has always existed sounds much more logical than a particle...

Erm, right.

[KorrupT MerC]

We're the closest thing to Gods we'll ever know... We can build gigantic cities and destroy entire forests, we can harness nuclear energy as weaponry and we can save people from death with medicine.

Here is a little joke I learned that can be kind of a response to this. Its a pastor joke... so don't expect a laugh >.>

One day a group of scientist got together and looked at all the marvelous things mankind has done. So they decided to talk to God, they did and told Him they humanity so scientifically that they don't need God anymore. God told them to prove themselves right. To do so they would have to make an animal out of dirt and bring it to life. So the scientists went out to collect dirt, right before they started to collect the dirt God showed up and said, "No, get your own dirt."

Basically the point is that science and engineering aren't equal to being a god. Its taking something thats already here and putting it to another use.

How do we know what god made? [i originally typo-ed 'god' as 'dos' there, lol]. If god made everything, did he then make bacteria and viruses? Because we took something like Polio, which caused devistation, and turned it into a vaccine, which is almost pure goodness, and wiped polio out completely.

I find these double standards frustrating.

I asked myself a similar question once (why did God put us here to suffer if he is love?). I too have had my doubts but i've found out some answers to very tough/controversial questions

The answer i got, came from someone who knows the bible very well and he told me that God did not actually put bad things such as viruses and such, Adam and Eve's free will had them sin against God, hence bringing sin into what was a sinless world. Sin is the origin of such bad things, to which was mans fault. Kinda like tough love, you do something bad you must live with your mistakes, except this is on a much greater scale.

[7th_account]

And where did this god come from?

He has always existed and will forever exist.

I know what comes next: "but but this parcicle existedj before too xD!!". Excuse me, but an almighty God that has always existed sounds much more logical than a particle...

If magic makes more sense than physics, then that person must be quite daft. =)

[Svirin Kerath]

I asked myself a similar question once (why did God put us here to suffer if he is love?). I too have had my doubts but i've found out some answers to very tough/controversial questions

The answer i got, came from someone who knows the bible very well and he told me that God did not actually put bad things such as viruses and such, Adam and Eve's free will had them sin against God, hence bringing sin into what was a sinless world. Sin is the origin of such bad things, to which was mans fault. Kinda like tough love, you do something bad you must live with your mistakes, except this is on a much greater scale.

I was told the same thing, and here is the problem with that:

God is omniscient; he knows everything, including all that has happened, all that's happeneing, and all that will happen.

God is omnipotent; he is all powerful, there are no limits to what he can do.

God is all merciful; his love knows no bounds.

God knew what Adam and Eve would do ahead of time, and while the whole "what Adam and Eve did was original sin" bit is a huge chunk of unpleasantness to swallow that I won't even get into now, it means that god created the universe in such a way that what they would do would result in suffering.

I'll use an analogy. You create a device that has a dozen buttons on it. All of the buttons are blue, but one of them is red, and it is labeled "do not touch."

You give this device to a child, tell them not to touch the red button, and leave them to their own device(s). The child, naturally presses the red button.

Now you know this, so you have the red button cause a speaker on the device to play a loud, stern, scolding message about following directions, and explain that privileges will be taken away.

...Instead, god does the equivalent of having the red button cause the child to be hit with 1,000,000 volts of electricity.

God can plan ahead, can cause any situation to be in such away that anything he wants can happen because of it, because he is omniscient and omnipotent. But because he is all loving, that means he can arrange a situation in such a way that such terrible suffering cannot possibly happen, and we get punishment that is a bit more merciful.

You may say that the suffering is necessary because it helps us learn from it, but it's hard to learn from something that causes intense, unbearable pain 24 hours a day until you're sedated or die.

So if god does exist, he cannot really be all three: omniscient, omnipotent, and all loving.

[Laser Guy]

Yes, but actually god gave free will, so he couldn't stopa Adam and Eve...

[Svirin Kerath]

Yes, but actually god gave free will, so he couldn't stopa Adam and Eve...

But I addressed that. It's not about stopping them, but about planning for their actions, which god knew and could have arranged for because he is omniscient and omnipotent (assuming the god of the Bible).

[KorrupT MerC]

God can plan ahead, can cause any situation to be in such away that anything he wants can happen because of it, because he is omniscient and omnipotent. But because he is all loving, that means he can arrange a situation in such a way that such terrible suffering cannot possibly happen, and we get punishment that is a bit more merciful.

While you do make a valid point, what you said there has me thinking... maybe we are just getting a glimpse of the seductiveness and evil of sin. Since hell is supposed to be 324023479023 times worse than any suffering we experience here on earth, he may be testing us to whether, even though we know the consequences, we will still be seducted to do evil that will inevitably cause much worse suffering. What im trying to get at is, maybe this is as merciful as he can be without us being 'babied' as he is all powerful and we cannot comprehend him. So what we define as suffering is nothing compared to what could happen, but we cannot know until it happens.

[Svirin Kerath]

While you do make a valid point, what you said there has me thinking... maybe we are just getting a glimpse of the seductiveness and evil of sin. Since hell is supposed to be 324023479023 times worse than any suffering we experience here on earth, he may be testing us to whether, even though we know the consequences, we will still be seducted to do evil that will inevitably cause much worse suffering. What im trying to get at is, maybe this is as merciful as he can be without us being 'babied' as he is all powerful and we cannot comprehend him. So what we define as suffering is nothing compared to what could happen, but we cannot know until it happens.

But it's possible to teach that lesson without having people suffer so much. And if the test is so necessary, why doesn't everyone suffer so much? People who see others suffering can't even comprehend the amount of pain they feel, so it's not like they can learn from it, only imagine. And why then does intense suffering affect children who die from genetic diseases before they reach 3 years old, as such children are, at least according to modern Christianity, incapable of sin, and therefore will go straight to heaven anyway?

[KorrupT MerC]

But it's possible to teach that lesson without having people suffer so much. And if the test is so necessary, why doesn't everyone suffer so much? People who see others suffering can't even comprehend the amount of pain they feel, so it's not like they can learn from it, only imagine. And why then does intense suffering affect children who die from genetic diseases before they reach 3 years old, as such children are, at least according to modern Christianity, incapable of sin, and therefore will go straight to heaven anyway?

Variety, everyone suffers in their own way at one point or another. Although to common knowledge it may seem someone suffers more than another, but suffering is suffering nonetheless, it all depends on the decisions you make which decides on how you suffer and what you suffer from and how you deal with it.

As for the children, i cannot say, only hope that such children do not be judged and therefore automatically admitted into Heaven.

[Svirin Kerath]

Variety, everyone suffers in their own way at one point or another. Although to common knowledge it may seem someone suffers more than another, but suffering is suffering nonetheless, it all depends on the decisions you make which decides on how you suffer and what you suffer from and how you deal with it.

As for the children, i cannot say, only hope that such children do not be judged and therefore automatically admitted into Heaven.

There are definitely different levels of suffering. Some people go through a relatively happy life never breaking any bones or getting any major diseases and die after going into what is basically unconsciousness.

Then there are people who are born with or develop deformities that cause pain every moment of their life and they're miserable until they die. I'd say one situation is definitely better.

Also, if those children go to heaven, that makes their suffering unnecessary and pointless.