Northern Illinois University Shooting

[a-4-year-old]

Same as here in Finland. The gunner had only .22, what if he had AK-74 from Russia? How many victims would he have got with that? What if he had some C4 with him? Blow off the school and shoot those why try to escape from the building, just like in America. Would he have done so? (Not likely in this case, since his motive wasn't to get high killcount, but to do "natural selection". He actually let few people to escape from the building for a purpose.) If killcount matters, you will take AK-74+C4 instead of .22.

WHAT IF HE HAD A NUCULAR WEAPIN?

It's worth noting that a .22 would in some cases be a better idea then to go in guns blasing.

[Mangled*]

I think you guys missed the point with what I was getting at with the whole gun laws thing...

Now I don't know the specifics of US firearms laws.. I'm not interested enough to look them up. The point I was trying to allow you to figure out for yourselves is that gun laws directly influence both how many legal and "illegal" firearms are in circulation.

illegal guns are used much more frequently than legal guns.

Do you know what most illegal guns are? They are legal guns that have been taken out of legal circulation. Usually brought over the boarder and imported illegally but perhaps stolen from a warehouse or somebodies home or a gun store or off the back of a truck. In order to limit the illegal firearms in circulation you need to start with limiting the legal ones which reduces the total firearms.

Population + Guns = Shootings

[The Geologist]

Now I don't know the specifics of US firearms laws.. I'm not interested enough to look them up.

Pretty interesting statement from someone trying to make connections between gun control laws and the amounts of shootings.  Makes me think you don't know what you're talking about.

The point I was trying to allow you to figure out for yourselves is that gun laws directly influence both how many legal and "illegal" firearms are in circulation.

"The point I was trying to allow you to figure out"?  Since when were you the keeper of all knowledge?  Come off the high horse for a minute there, buddy.

Tell me, clearly and concisely, how gun laws control the number of both legal and illegal firearms in circulation.  Because, as I see it, the laws don't control the number of illegal firearms at all - no law can remove guns that were already in circulation prior to the law.  Nor can they remove homemade firearms.  Or illegally purchased firearms. 

Do you know what most illegal guns are? They are legal guns that have been taken out of legal circulation. Usually brought over the boarder and imported illegally but perhaps stolen from a warehouse or somebodies home or a gun store or off the back of a truck. In order to limit the illegal firearms in circulation you need to start with limiting the legal ones which reduces the total firearms.

You're contradicting yourself here.  You admit it's the number of illegal firearms that are the problem, not the gun laws.  Because, as you just said, the guns are being stolen and/or imported illegally. 

Furthermore, if they're brought in from over the border then that means the whole "legality" issue is out the window.  Especially when you begin talking about "or possibly they were stolen from...oh, wait!  They might have been stolen from a warehouse...or the back of a truck..or a gun shop!".  Let's say they were stolen from a gun shop - how is that a problem for gun legislation?  Answer that.  Don't dodge it the question.  Because you seem to want a society with no guns at all, in which case you may as well just figure out how to turn back time.

Seriously, what would another law do against that?  Let's say we took away all the guns in America, or any other country for that matter.  We remove guns from all legal owners.  There would be a third party (or three ) waiting there to resupply the firearms at any given time. 

[chrisgbk]

Also, to add on to what The Geologist said: if you ban the manufacturing of guns, then they also go underground. And then you STILL have illegal firearms, illegally manufactured, except now there are no legal firearms to fend them off, because by this time you've already taken them away from everyone else. Now only criminals have guns, and they can kill as many people as they want.

Except in your version of the Orwellian world that everyone would be now living in, the state would control everyones lives to ensure that they never made or found illegal guns, by constant surveillance at all times, electronic identification databases of everyone ever born, etc, all in the name of keeping people safe from guns.

I can only imagine what happens next.

[Mangled*]

Okay I'll admit... the US is a little too far gone to ban guns. So there is no solution for you.

You're pretty much screwed.

[The Geologist]

You forget the same logic applies to just about any other country with available (yet restricted) firearms.  To use an overused phrase "guns don't kill people; people kill people".  This sort of thing can happen (and has) in other countries all across the globe. 

The US is far from screwed.  But at least you're being clear in what you're trying to say now.  Spot on, old chap.  And I say that in complete seriousness.

Until there is a way to take care of the human element, incidents like this will be a problem regardless of the weapon used.

[Graham]

Bears kill people, ban bears.

So do cars and fire, ban those bastards as well.

[bja888]

I really don't think there is anything that has not been said about this topic. Your just beating a dead horse at this point.

Your just encouraging it more by talking about it.

[Sethamundo]

regardless of the weapon used.

Just on a side note, to add to what Geo said, this is a very valid point that a lot of people seem to completely overlook.  It doesn't matter if you take guns away, people will find something to use.  Take their guns, they'll start using knives.  Take their knives, they'll start using chair legs, household appliances, blunt objects, cars, etc.  There was a man in 1964 who killed 10 people with a lance and a home-made flamethrower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_school_massacre).  People will find ways if they're determined enough.

[FliesLikeABrick]

My uncle went to school there. He's a professor at another college in the area.

Really sad that these things keep happening.

What school does he teach at?

[Mangled*]

people will find something to use.  Take their guns, they'll start using knives.  Take their knives, they'll start using chair legs, household appliances, blunt objects, cars, etc.  There was a man in 1964 who killed 10 people with a lance and a home-made flamethrower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_school_massacre).  People will find ways if they're determined enough.

Do you not feel that at least people are capable of defending themselves or running from these things? With knives and blunt objects the person has to get close and at least you have a chance of fighting back and disarming them. I'd like to see how many skulls someone can bash in using a heavy object until he runs out of steam, and how far will he chase people with a knife until he runs out of breath?

Guns make it too easy. Yes sure, people will find other things to kill with... but that's if they can be bothered to go so far out of their way.

[Soap]

He got 39th place -> http://www.spreekillers.org

[Valorman]

Just to think...I went there last summer to drop my brother off at soccer camp. Scary stuff.

[Shivorken]

Lots of people have guns in America. Young people will be exposed to the actual thing other than just seeing it online, playing a game or in a movie.

I live in Australia where pretty much no one owns (or needs) a gun and I play FPS and watch action movies all the time. However, when I get an anger surge towards someone, I do not think of using a gun. Why? because i do not have one in my vicinity and it will be a pain in the fkin arse to get one.

American people KNOW they have a gun and therefore they will use it.

[a-4-year-old]

Lots of people have guns in America. Young people will be exposed to the actual thing other than just seeing it online, playing a game or in a movie.

I live in Australia where pretty much no one owns (or needs) a gun and I play FPS and watch action movies all the time. However, when I get an anger surge towards someone, I do not think of using a gun. Why? because i do not have one in my vicinity and it will be a pain in the fkin arse to get one.

American people KNOW they have a gun and therefore they will use it.

That makes about as much sense as the argument that videogames will turn the children into mass murdering psychopaths

[Graham]

Lots of people have guns in America. Young people will be exposed to the actual thing other than just seeing it online, playing a game or in a movie.

I live in Australia where pretty much no one owns (or needs) a gun and I play FPS and watch action movies all the time. However, when I get an anger surge towards someone, I do not think of using a gun. Why? because i do not have one in my vicinity and it will be a pain in the fkin arse to get one.

American people KNOW they have a gun and therefore they will use it.

Like I said before I have 12 guns in my house and I never think of shooting anyone... actually I would rather gut someone then shoot them. Also for your last idiotic statement to be true every American would have to own a gun... when there are many people in the USA that hate guns and many that have never and will never touch one in their entire life. Hell with most of my friends the only time they even touch a gun is when I take them out to shoot targets.

But hell they live in American and touched a gun... its only a matter of time before they shoot up a school right? I mean it's GUNS fault for being evil and corrupting the mind right?

[Pie]

Well it's said that there are enough guns in america for everyone to own one, but you own 12, so that's 11 people without them.
Besides, You can't just blame a group of people, The person was a mental case, people around him should of seen it coming if they paid attention to him.

[The Geologist]

Lots of people have guns in America. Young people will be exposed to the actual thing other than just seeing it online, playing a game or in a movie.

I live in Australia where pretty much no one owns (or needs) a gun and I play FPS and watch action movies all the time. However, when I get an anger surge towards someone, I do not think of using a gun. Why? because i do not have one in my vicinity and it will be a pain in the fkin arse to get one.

American people KNOW they have a gun and therefore they will use it.

Do the words Port Arthur mean anything to you?

[Fluffy]

Eh, that's actually a pretty funny coincidence. You see, they're trying to almost completely ban ammunition (more information can be found here: http://gk43forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4911) in the state of Illinois. Now that a shooting just happened there, no doubt they'll get it through.

Most school shooters are depressed, unsocial, listen to Rammstein and sometimes fare not so well in school. There is no evidence that the perpetrator (who has a really hard name) was anything like that.

I call conspiracy!

[Chakra]

What makes these reoccurring scenarios happen in America so often then?

Before any generic replies, yes i'm aware it happens elsewhere in the world. Does it happen most frequently in the States though, and if so why?
Yes I'm aware of the slack gun laws, as other countries have that don't often suffer this kind of issue.
No, I don't blame Snoop Dogg. 'cept when it comes to gangsta' wannabes.