the augging

[excruciator]

Yes you should, and also, yes MP5 does kill faster, why dont you ever see it in pubs??? because they all suck at aiming.

Also, the table is not mine, is made by clawbug, so furthers the credibility because its not made by me and because he is a beta tester.

... you gain nothing with the range of the ak(which isnt much larger than steyr), and most of the time you have to aim like 1 cm higher with the ak.

The ak has more bullets, but that doesnt work when youre agaisnt a weapon that is so overpowered like the steyr, which is like a longer ranged, more damaging(if youre gonna post the weapons.ini dmg of steyr remember that speed affects damage.), short reloading HK.

Also, steyr is the best weapon for binking.

Steyr has longer range, but it's less accurate.
...
Steyr is longer ranged, lesser damaging, more accurate and is reloading slower than mp5.
Right, speed affects dmg. But mp5 is for close-mid range... and it owns steyr there, it's just somewhat harder to use on long range.

... -1 dmg, -5 ammo, +6 bink.

Less accurate?, are really being serious?, the only problem with steyr is that it has a unstraight bullet every 2 or 3.

yes tired, that is the definition of lesser accuracy...Dont contradict yourself. Dump it on yourself when you cant dump it on anyone else.

[Kerrazyeye]

Tired: you really need to stop contradicting me because you fail everytime you try.

http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07503/SolWep.PNG

explains all...

as you can see, the time required for Ak to kill is 0.87 seconds, and that of aug is 0.83, So that tecnically is a SLIGHT difference.

So next time, think before pulling out more bull#### out of your so called ass

Numbers really dont mean anything, they cant determine how that gun is used in soldat. I like both guns, they both have there own strengths and weaknesses. AUG is a good all around weapon, great vs snipers. AK seems to kill faster then AUG with decent aim.

[TiReD]

Yes you should, and also, yes MP5 does kill faster, why dont you ever see it in pubs??? because they all suck at aiming.

Also, the table is not mine, is made by clawbug, so furthers the credibility because its not made by me and because he is a beta tester.

... you gain nothing with the range of the ak(which isnt much larger than steyr), and most of the time you have to aim like 1 cm higher with the ak.

The ak has more bullets, but that doesnt work when youre agaisnt a weapon that is so overpowered like the steyr, which is like a longer ranged, more damaging(if youre gonna post the weapons.ini dmg of steyr remember that speed affects damage.), short reloading HK.

Also, steyr is the best weapon for binking.

Steyr has longer range, but it's less accurate.
...
Steyr is longer ranged, lesser damaging, more accurate and is reloading slower than mp5.
Right, speed affects dmg. But mp5 is for close-mid range... and it owns steyr there, it's just somewhat harder to use on long range.

... -1 dmg, -5 ammo, +6 bink.

Less accurate?, are really being serious?, the only problem with steyr is that it has a unstraight bullet every 2 or 3.

yes tired, that is the definition of lesser accuracy...Dont contradict yourself. Dump it on yourself when you cant dump it on anyone else.

Uh, no. MP5 has 1 straight bullet, then one on top, then one lower than the middle. And when you do one click(Are you really gonna try doing one click on hk?.) you still get some bullets like that. As for AK you have to go on with one click when youre on distance, or else the accuracy of the current AK will feck you up. And when youre on close you have to use burst, and lost the accuracy that made the ak what it was. Steyr will only get one or two every 5 or 6(prolly more) when you know what youre doing. Steyr is the same on any range, thus making it the easiest and most overpowered auto.


Also, you do see people using mp5 on publics, but only on small maps, cause thats all it can do, and even on those maps steyr can do much more. And for the table, why did you post it if you cant even defend it on a argument. I dont care who made it, give me a counter argument.

But i dont really care about how many people use a weapon, i care about what the weapon can do agaisnt the others.

[Tactical Sniper]

Also, ZOMG SOCCOM KILLS FASTER THAN AUG, OVERPOWERED!!11111

SOCCOM ownz all, best secondary

[Ziem]

Less accurate?, are really being serious?, the only problem with steyr is that it has a unstraight bullet every 2 or 3.

Right, I'm serious. I've just wrote that Steyr is less accurate on long range than Ak...
Btw. You are comparing Mp5 and Steyr... those autos are completely different, and they fill different roles.

Doh. Socom kills faster than Steyr - right. In 0 range. And those stats are about fu!$@# zero range. End. dot.

[excruciator]

tired the data is about the maximum potencial of a weapon.
2. MP5's role is a close-mid range weapon. you dont need to get accurate in order to kill, just get close and or ang or get better aim, because mp5 can tecnically handle mid range if you know how.

3rd, aug's accuracy is more fecked up that aks.. yet you are saying that..Ak loses accuracy easier than AUG...What?? do you even know what you are saying???

but I do believe that since there are so many people using steyr, there must be something wrong with it.
(more bink?)

give me a counter argument

the differences between aug and ak is slight, aug has a lesser accuracy therefore is harder to handle, and therefore ak has the upperhand at mid-long or longrange.

This means.. You cannot be more wrong about everything

Numbers really dont mean anything

hahaha... you just made by day...
If math is wrong, what is right??

[Kerrazyeye]

hahaha... you just made by day...
If math is wrong, what is right??

The next time you quote me fucknuts, quote the whole sentence to preserve the correct context.

Noob.

[cunchy]

So much flaming and trolling here.

GUYS, The AUG is gonna get nerfed in 1.5. See what's it like and THEN complain =]
I've been using AUG lately and it can overpower almost every gun in most situations.

[TiReD]

tired the data is about the maximum potencial of a weapon.
2. MP5's role is a close-mid range weapon. you dont need to get accurate in order to kill, just get close and or ang or get better aim, because mp5 can tecnically handle mid range if you know how.

3rd, aug's accuracy is more fecked up that aks.. yet you are saying that..Ak loses accuracy easier than AUG...What?? do you even know what you are saying???

but I do believe that since there are so many people using steyr, there must be something wrong with it.
(more bink?)

give me a counter argument

the differences between aug and ak is slight, aug has a lesser accuracy therefore is harder to handle, and therefore ak has the upperhand at mid-long or longrange.

This means.. You cannot be more wrong about everything

That data isnt about maximum potential, its point blank, which happens almost never. Stop being dumb.

About your "technical" information, i wont keep discussing with you, since youre not gonna give anything that you can back up.

Try using ak on burst on long range, then shut the fuck up.

-

Again, try using the ak with burst on long range, you wont get the same accuracy as steyr, and if you try doing one click, youll lose because steyr is firing much faster and hitting much more.

[excruciator]

tired the data is about the maximum potencial of a weapon.
2. MP5's role is a close-mid range weapon. you dont need to get accurate in order to kill, just get close and or ang or get better aim, because mp5 can tecnically handle mid range if you know how.

3rd, aug's accuracy is more fecked up that aks.. yet you are saying that..Ak loses accuracy easier than AUG...What?? do you even know what you are saying???

but I do believe that since there are so many people using steyr, there must be something wrong with it.
(more bink?)

give me a counter argument

the differences between aug and ak is slight, aug has a lesser accuracy therefore is harder to handle, and therefore ak has the upperhand at mid-long or longrange.

This means.. You cannot be more wrong about everything

That data isnt about maximum potential, its point blank, which happens almost never. Stop being dumb.

About your "technical" information, i wont keep discussing with you, since youre not gonna give anything that you can back up.

use your brain, point blank = maximum potencial
since the bullet travel time is 0 and also aim is perfect. Think before typing. THINK!!

Again, try using the ak with burst on long range, you wont get the same accuracy as steyr, and if you try doing one click, youll lose because steyr is firing much faster and hitting much more.

ehm..if you click faster than the rate of fire, you can still get a perfect stream of bullets.

Do you even PLAY soldat?


The point of a maximum potencial table is to know how good a specific weapon is, since any change in the weapon will result in a increase in maximum potencial, since the maximum potencial = perfect, its rate of increase will be bigger than any real "life" use. So it is the best way to determine if the weapon is overpowered or not.

also, if you keep avoiding the hard cold facts, then you should stop trying to discuss all together. No point discussing with a guy that does not want to realize that he's wrong.

[The Owls]

Stats and number crunching like that can only go so far.  You can spit out all the facts you want, but the thing is, it doesn't really mean crap.  The only thing that matters, is how the guns play in in-game scenarios. 

Of course again, this comes down to the difference between people who've been playing for a while and can aim, and those new to the game.  Guns like the Steyr are not going to be used as much by new players, so you won't see a whole lot in pubs.  Though that doesn't make it a bad gun, nor does it make it a hard gun to use either. 

The thing about the Steyr, is that it has a shallow clip.   New players aren't going to hit most of their shots so they'll probably be using multiple clips to kill one enemy.  Which will lead them into using other weapons such as the AK or the Minimi for their huge clip size. 

But on the other end of the spectrum, people who can aim fairly well will probably take a liking to the Steyr.  The reason being is because its a great rushing weapon, and an all around auto.  It's fairly easy to aim due to its high bullet speed, and kills fairly fast too.  The only real weakness is its clip size, which doesn't really effect people with descent aim.  It makes it the most used auto in clan wars or gathers.

Do I think it needs to be changed or tweaked at all?  Not really.  I think its a very basic weapon, with obvious strengths and advantages.  The Steyr is the most used auto, so why change it?  Why not tweak the other autos to match up evenly with it?
 
In my opinion soldat's balance needs a place to start, a place to center around.  Rather then going through and changing every weapon between every version, the balance should focus around a certain weapon.  In this case, the Steyr.  From that, making the other guns to be evened with each other shouldn't be as hard. 

[TiReD]

tired the data is about the maximum potencial of a weapon.
2. MP5's role is a close-mid range weapon. you dont need to get accurate in order to kill, just get close and or ang or get better aim, because mp5 can tecnically handle mid range if you know how.

3rd, aug's accuracy is more fecked up that aks.. yet you are saying that..Ak loses accuracy easier than AUG...What?? do you even know what you are saying???


but I do believe that since there are so many people using steyr, there must be something wrong with it.
(more bink?)

give me a counter argument

the differences between aug and ak is slight, aug has a lesser accuracy therefore is harder to handle, and therefore ak has the upperhand at mid-long or longrange.

This means.. You cannot be more wrong about everything

That data isnt about maximum potential, its point blank, which happens almost never. Stop being dumb.

About your "technical" information, i wont keep discussing with you, since youre not gonna give anything that you can back up.

use your brain, point blank = maximum potencial
since the bullet travel time is 0 and also aim is perfect. Think before typing. THINK!!

Again, try using the ak with burst on long range, you wont get the same accuracy as steyr, and if you try doing one click, youll lose because steyr is firing much faster and hitting much more.

ehm..if you click faster than the rate of fire, you can still get a perfect stream of bullets.

Do you even PLAY soldat?


The point of a maximum potencial table is to know how good a specific weapon is, since any change in the weapon will result in a increase in maximum potencial, since the maximum potencial = perfect, its rate of increase will be bigger than any real "life" use. So it is the best way to determine if the weapon is overpowered or not.

also, if you keep avoiding the hard cold facts, then you should stop trying to discuss all together. No point discussing with a guy that does not want to realize that he's wrong.

YEAH, POINT BLANK = MAXIMUM POTENTIAL, CAUSE THATS WHAT HAPPENS ON THE GAME, NEVERMIND THE BULLET SPEED.

OH YEAH, RATE OF FIRE IS NONEXISTENT WHEN YOU DO ONE CLICK X BULLET.

[.Ryan.]

ak is used for cutting through 2-3 opponents without having to reload, it might be a bit harder and slower firing though. steyr is, in my opinion, better for those 1 on 1 fights you often get. its like the barret and spas, they are different weapons used in different situations.

You could compare minimi and ak, because they are fairly similar in many ways, but steyr is a lot different, it behaves a lot different.

the weapons are designed in soldat to be very different from each other, yet remaining the same balance.
It's not an easy task to accomplish, give it a break, im sure you couldn't balance weapons any better than what they have been.

[mar77a]

Stats and number crunching like that can only go so far.  You can spit out all the facts you want, but the thing is, it doesn't really mean crap.  The only thing that matters, is how the guns play in in-game scenarios. 

Of course again, this comes down to the difference between people who've been playing for a while and can aim, and those new to the game.  Guns like the Steyr are not going to be used as much by new players, so you won't see a whole lot in pubs.  Though that doesn't make it a bad gun, nor does it make it a hard gun to use either. 

The thing about the Steyr, is that it has a shallow clip.   New players aren't going to hit most of their shots so they'll probably be using multiple clips to kill one enemy.  Which will lead them into using other weapons such as the AK or the Minimi for their huge clip size. 

But on the other end of the spectrum, people who can aim fairly well will probably take a liking to the Steyr.  The reason being is because its a great rushing weapon, and an all around auto.  It's fairly easy to aim due to its high bullet speed, and kills fairly fast too.  The only real weakness is its clip size, which doesn't really effect people with descent aim.  It makes it the most used auto in clan wars or gathers.

Do I think it needs to be changed or tweaked at all?  Not really.  I think its a very basic weapon, with obvious strengths and advantages.  The Steyr is the most used auto, so why change it?  Why not tweak the other autos to match up evenly with it?
 
In my opinion soldat's balance needs a place to start, a place to center around.  Rather then going through and changing every weapon between every version, the balance should focus around a certain weapon.  In this case, the Steyr.  From that, making the other guns to be evened with each other shouldn't be as hard. 

What if Steyr is the only easily noticeably unbalanced weapon right now? It's stupid to adjust the other 9 weapons. Also, balancing is done on a usage basis, not only on the paper theory.

[The Owls]

I'm not saying it has to be the steyr, I'm saying it needs to get a focal point of some sort.  The idea is that it doesn't quite matter what weapon you choose, just that the others are balanced off of it.  The fact that the Steyr was the most used was the reason I choose it. 

[tehsnipah]

Tired: you really need to stop contradicting me because you fail everytime you try.

http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07503/SolWep.PNG

explains all...

as you can see, the time required for Ak to kill is 0.87 seconds, and that of aug is 0.83, So that tecnically is a SLIGHT difference.

So next time, think before pulling out more bull#### out of your so called ass

if this is to rai-dei i won't interfere. but if this is to me
first of all, when the hell did i say AK is better than AUG? and tell me when the hell i contradicted you, so don't show me those bulls to me.

[excruciator]

tired the data is about the maximum potencial of a weapon.
2. MP5's role is a close-mid range weapon. you dont need to get accurate in order to kill, just get close and or ang or get better aim, because mp5 can tecnically handle mid range if you know how.

3rd, aug's accuracy is more fecked up that aks.. yet you are saying that..Ak loses accuracy easier than AUG...What?? do you even know what you are saying???


but I do believe that since there are so many people using steyr, there must be something wrong with it.
(more bink?)

give me a counter argument

the differences between aug and ak is slight, aug has a lesser accuracy therefore is harder to handle, and therefore ak has the upperhand at mid-long or longrange.

This means.. You cannot be more wrong about everything

That data isnt about maximum potential, its point blank, which happens almost never. Stop being dumb.

About your "technical" information, i wont keep discussing with you, since youre not gonna give anything that you can back up.

use your brain, point blank = maximum potencial
since the bullet travel time is 0 and also aim is perfect. Think before typing. THINK!!

Again, try using the ak with burst on long range, you wont get the same accuracy as steyr, and if you try doing one click, youll lose because steyr is firing much faster and hitting much more.

ehm..if you click faster than the rate of fire, you can still get a perfect stream of bullets.

Do you even PLAY soldat?


The point of a maximum potencial table is to know how good a specific weapon is, since any change in the weapon will result in a increase in maximum potencial, since the maximum potencial = perfect, its rate of increase will be bigger than any real "life" use. So it is the best way to determine if the weapon is overpowered or not.

also, if you keep avoiding the hard cold facts, then you should stop trying to discuss all together. No point discussing with a guy that does not want to realize that he's wrong.

YEAH, POINT BLANK = MAXIMUM POTENTIAL, CAUSE THATS WHAT HAPPENS ON THE GAME, NEVERMIND THE BULLET SPEED.

OH YEAH, RATE OF FIRE IS NONEXISTENT WHEN YOU DO ONE CLICK X BULLET.

you dont have to be at point blank to achieve the maximum potencial, you can just have a perfect aim. point blank and perfect aim happens almost never, but a decent aim happens all the time. what decide who wins when you got 2 guy of the same skill? the gun. Maximum potential chart is the controlled experiment where every other variables are the same except for one. In this case, the gun. The kind of comparison you want is unrealistic and does not give you any results.(noob vs. pro? come on.)

Date Posted: March 02, 2008, 02:20:18 pm

I'm not saying it has to be the steyr, I'm saying it needs to get a focal point of some sort.  The idea is that it doesn't quite matter what weapon you choose, just that the others are balanced off of it.  The fact that the Steyr was the most used was the reason I choose it. 

then im pretty sure that steyr has a problem.


Date Posted: March 02, 2008, 02:21:58 pm

Tired: you really need to stop contradicting me because you fail everytime you try.

http://xs322.xs.to/xs322/07503/SolWep.PNG

explains all...

as you can see, the time required for Ak to kill is 0.87 seconds, and that of aug is 0.83, So that tecnically is a SLIGHT difference.

So next time, think before pulling out more bull#### out of your so called ass

if this is to rai-dei i won't interfere. but if this is to me
first of all, when the hell did i say AK is better than AUG? and tell me when the hell i contradicted you, so don't show me those bulls to me.

I never said that the stats were given to YOU, I clearly stated that I was showing it to Tired.

Date Posted: March 02, 2008, 02:22:48 pm

Stats and number crunching like that can only go so far.  You can spit out all the facts you want, but the thing is, it doesn't really mean crap.  The only thing that matters, is how the guns play in in-game scenarios. 

Of course again, this comes down to the difference between people who've been playing for a while and can aim, and those new to the game.  Guns like the Steyr are not going to be used as much by new players, so you won't see a whole lot in pubs.  Though that doesn't make it a bad gun, nor does it make it a hard gun to use either. 

The thing about the Steyr, is that it has a shallow clip.   New players aren't going to hit most of their shots so they'll probably be using multiple clips to kill one enemy.  Which will lead them into using other weapons such as the AK or the Minimi for their huge clip size. 

But on the other end of the spectrum, people who can aim fairly well will probably take a liking to the Steyr.  The reason being is because its a great rushing weapon, and an all around auto.  It's fairly easy to aim due to its high bullet speed, and kills fairly fast too.  The only real weakness is its clip size, which doesn't really effect people with descent aim.  It makes it the most used auto in clan wars or gathers.

Do I think it needs to be changed or tweaked at all?  Not really.  I think its a very basic weapon, with obvious strengths and advantages.  The Steyr is the most used auto, so why change it?  Why not tweak the other autos to match up evenly with it?
 
In my opinion soldat's balance needs a place to start, a place to center around.  Rather then going through and changing every weapon between every version, the balance should focus around a certain weapon.  In this case, the Steyr.  From that, making the other guns to be evened with each other shouldn't be as hard. 

1st, maximum potencial chart shows how good a weapon can theorically get. its far far away from a in game scenario, then again, a weapon with high potencial can also be good for noobs, if not impossible to aim with.

2nd, is stupid to compare noob handling a gun vs pro handling a gun, is like x and y in one equation, you dont get fixed results.
you get a line.

[Mastadi]

Going on by your facts, i should be using soccom, since it kills faster than steyr.

Also, ZOMG SOCCOM KILLS FASTER THAN AUG, OVERPOWERED!!11111

Going on by his facts, I should be using minigun, since it kills faster than socom.

Although, these stats do matter (No matter what range are you talking about, unless one bullet already reached lowest possible speed and other didn't), we also need to remember that it's not only speed and power of bullet that matters. There are other important factors, such as accuracy, ammunition per clip, Ease to use. Steyer AUG isn't overpowered, it's overused. It's weapon very easy to use (Not very easy to master, though) and that's why it's so popular. It's much harder to, for example, use Minimi (PLEASE MM AND OTHER GUYS, LOWER IT'S SELF-BINK!!! Now it's almost useless outside of TW and other flat realistic maps ) than it, although, I bet that if two very experienced players, one using minimi, one using AUG, would duel each other, the battle would be pretty close.

[Thinkto urself]

Wow. Is this topic all about the Steyr's Bink? Who here knows "KillJoy" Otherwise known as "Roush243," He's god with the steyr, he can fire a perfectly strait line, if you ask kindly enough, he may even send you a demo of this strait shot, and that's just in realisitic mode, in normal mode, the steyr is one of the most accurate weapons in the game, atleast, if you know how to use a gun like the steyr properly.

[tehsnipah]

Wow. Is this topic all about the Steyr's Bink? Who here knows "KillJoy" Otherwise known as "Roush243," He's god with the steyr, he can fire a perfectly strait line, if you ask kindly enough, he may even send you a demo of this strait shot, and that's just in realisitic mode, in normal mode, the steyr is one of the most accurate weapons in the game, atleast, if you know how to use a gun like the steyr properly.

thaaank youuu. this is the guy i wanted to talk to in this topic. and i would love to see his demos.