Author Topic: Solutions to decrease the M79  (Read 5717 times)

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Offline Lord Frunkamunch

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2008, 09:25:20 pm »
- Take away the "granade effect" you miss someone badly, but still kill them because they are at low health, wich isnt possible with any other weapon

That's because most other weapons DON'T FIRE GRENADES.

As you may or may not know, grenades have this nifty habit of exploding. It's kinda what makes them useful at a weapon instead of a glorified slingshot.
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Offline Ziem

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2008, 02:39:50 am »
I believe m79 should have bigger self-damage. It would prevent kamikazing with it.
Kamikazing? Where? On 16 ppl ctf pub? Rotfl.

If you can't stop M79'er and he 'kamikazes', or you can't dodge a nade, you simply deserve to die.

Bink should be 80~100. 40 still isn't enough bink to be easily pressured by autos.
Yeah, let's have a short-mid range weapon with bink like barret.. M79 is almost useless against autos on main route.

Offline Hair|Trigger

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2008, 05:56:28 am »
The thing with m79 if anyone really cares.... is that it annoys the HELL out of people who go against it.  Even i get pessed off at it.  We should really do something to make it less annoying, not reduce its power.  like make it a nuclear bomb?  give it the realistic specs that was mentioned before and give everyone something to laugh about.  Yeah we should do that, for one version, we should make the m79 like this, so it kills EVERYONE on the map including the person firing.  Then when the next version comes, it is back to normal but nobody will call it "noob".   lol
« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 06:01:00 am by Hair|Trigger »

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Offline ViN

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2008, 06:26:37 am »
Wow, if you can't avoid an m79 or a nade on open spaces, sucks to be you.
M79/spas are the easiest weapons to fight against if you're an auto user.
I guess most of the haters are people from public servers, who move like bots.

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Offline Pragma

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2008, 09:16:31 am »
I believe m79 should have bigger self-damage. It would prevent kamikazing with it.

Uh, dead is still dead my friend.  Increasing the self-damage amount would only make the kamakazi more dead than normal. :)

Date Posted: March 20, 2008, 10:03:55 am
Wow, if you can't avoid an m79 or a nade on open spaces, sucks to be you.
M79/spas are the easiest weapons to fight against if you're an auto user.
I guess most of the haters are people from public servers, who move like bots.

Exactly.

While I've never played in gather, or a pro match, there are enough pro players in pub to give us all a taste of how to actually play.  Rolls, backflips, SPAS boosting, 'nade boosting, weapon stripping, fast-knife throwing, and most importantly m79 dodging - literally a league apart.  It is by their presence alone that I have learned how to use my weapon of choice more effectively.

And you know what, I get 'sploded, stabbed and shot a bunch myself.  Do I blame the game mechanics?  Hell no.  In a very Socratic way I understand that we all know nothing and, by extension, we all suck; yet there is this potential to have it all if only we're paying attention.   So I just pick myself back up and resolve to do better next time.

The whiners need to seriously play some old-skool Quake with some real professionals, and get fragged to hell and back with someone running the map with 90+ rockets in their inventory.  Talk about unbalanced weapons.  Soldat probably has the most balanced weapons configuration in a multiplayer game since Starcraft.

----

The solution here is simple: someone should start a normal mode server that doesn't allow the m79 as a weapon choice.  Better yet, ask the "Elite!" guys to set one up as "Run and Gun" as a counterpart to "One Shots"; no nades, no m79 and no LAW.  People looking to better their skill at dodging bullets, instead of bombs, can log in and frag away.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2008, 09:20:49 am by Pragma »

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Offline 8th_account

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2008, 10:19:06 am »
To all you wnb pros who consider M79 to be "fine" and tell everyone from Joe Pubber to SCTFL winners to "learn to dodge," here are some month long snips from various servers.

Semi-pro gather... most used primary, 50% more kills than barret...
Array
(
    [Grenade] => 52255
    [M79] => 32812
    [Steyr AUG] => 30937
    [Ruger 77] => 30694
    [Barrett M82A1] => 22899
    [Combat Knife] => 22806
    [Ak-74] => 21023
    [Desert Eagles] => 19864
    [Spas-12] => 17428
    [HK MP5] => 16977
    [LAW] => 7141
    [Selfkill] => 6297
    [FN Minimi] => 4163
    [Hands] => 3359
    [Chainsaw] => 508
    [XM214 Minigun] => 275
)

Pro gather before the 1.5 WM was used... 2nd most used primary, almost trice as many kills as barret...
Array
(
    [Grenade] => 17697
    [Desert Eagles] => 14699
    [M79] => 11694
    [Ruger 77] => 11595
    [Combat Knife] => 8284
    [Steyr AUG] => 6833
    [Barrett M82A1] => 6348
    [Spas-12] => 6151
    [Ak-74] => 5963
    [HK MP5] => 4148
    [Selfkill] => 3013
    [LAW] => 1688
    [FN Minimi] => 1412
    [Hands] => 934
    [Chainsaw] => 158
    [XM214 Minigun] => 57
)

sctfl10 server... 4th most used primary, twice as many kills as barret... still pretty bad.
Array
(
    [Grenade] => 34795
    [Steyr AUG] => 28495
    [Ak-74] => 25724
    [Ruger 77] => 17458
    [Combat Knife] => 13473
    [M79] => 13077
    [HK MP5] => 11160
    [Spas-12] => 8986
    [Barrett M82A1] => 6445
    [Desert Eagles] => 5996
    [FN Minimi] => 2585
    [Selfkill] => 2174
    [Hands] => 2051
    [LAW] => 1793
    [Chainsaw] => 182
    [XM214 Minigun] => 153
)

Offline Bjarne Betjent

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2008, 12:01:30 pm »
You can unload enough bullets(with all weapons) onto a player with a m79 while they are reloading to kill them. If you miss then its your fault. M79ers have to learn how to play against everyone else. The barrett was nerfed because it could shoot across entire maps at a fast rate. The only weapon to have less range than a m79 is the spas.

In short, if you can't are constantly being killed by one weapon.. YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG! Stop crying cause you run headstrong into a m79er and lose.

Lets say one map was just finished on a ctf server, a new map starts and you're rushing forward with a auto or something, in the middle of the map, u meet a M79 guy, who instant pushes his fire button, and explodes you.
What the hell can you do? There is no wepons who can compite to the M79

Offline Graham

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2008, 12:21:54 pm »
You can unload enough bullets(with all weapons) onto a player with a m79 while they are reloading to kill them. If you miss then its your fault. M79ers have to learn how to play against everyone else. The barrett was nerfed because it could shoot across entire maps at a fast rate. The only weapon to have less range than a m79 is the spas.

In short, if you can't are constantly being killed by one weapon.. YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING WRONG! Stop crying cause you run headstrong into a m79er and lose.

Lets say one map was just finished on a ctf server, a new map starts and you're rushing forward with a auto or something, in the middle of the map, u meet a M79 guy, who instant pushes his fire button, and explodes you.
What the hell can you do? There is no wepons who can compite to the M79
Oh my gosh.... you mean a weapon is good for a certain situation? Should the spas be nerfed cause its a good close range weapon? Should the barrett be nerfed cause it is good for defense? Should the Minimi be nerfed cause its easy to spray with?

M79s are good for rushing and getting maybe 2 kills unless the user is skilled. Then again you can see an entire screen infront of you if you simple move your mouse a little forward. Which gives tons of time for a simple backflip which nulls the initial shot, leaving the m79er defenseless. Although I see where you are coming from... it took me MONTHS to master this move, during this time I played at least 5 hours a day.


Also good job on reading my previous post...

Quote
Stop crying cause you run headstrong into a m79er and lose.
@ii

Offline Bjarne Betjent

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2008, 12:37:38 pm »
IMO, the M79 are the ultimate weapon in too many situations, the only weak point about M79 is range, and thats it..

Offline PaFel

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2008, 01:50:19 pm »
Just pray that MM won't make a M32 MGL for M79 place. 6 grenades in magazine, sound like MP5 SD6 and fire int like in spas...

Offline ghg

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2008, 02:21:22 pm »
Use the M79 then?

Seriously, it is the ONLY weapon I've never really had trouble with. Maybe saws?
Just jump out of the way, they have a very limited shooting arc.

How is a long range sniper rifle designed to take out tanks not able to combat a short range grenade launcher?
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Offline PaFel

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2008, 02:25:00 pm »
How is a long range sniper rifle designed to take out tanks not able to combat a short range grenade launcher?

It's "skill"...

Offline Outcast

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2008, 02:59:28 pm »
I believe m79 should have bigger self-damage. It would prevent kamikazing with it.

I believe kamikaze is when the target and the player die, which would increase in your case.
o/

Offline ghg

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #33 on: March 20, 2008, 03:04:39 pm »
How is a long range sniper rifle designed to take out tanks not able to combat a short range grenade launcher?

It's "skill"...
So needs decreasing because skilled players can kill you with it? Gahh.
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Offline Pragma

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #34 on: March 20, 2008, 08:45:07 pm »
To all you wnb pros who consider M79 to be "fine" and tell everyone from Joe Pubber to SCTFL winners to "learn to dodge," here are some month long snips from various servers.

<stats snipped for brevity>

Thank you for injecting some acutal data into the discussion.  However a wise man once said: there's lies, damned lies and statistics. :)

I'm not trying to be thick-headed here, but that data lacks context.  I'd like to see those numbers weighted by the number of times the player spawned with each weapon; basically the K/D ratio for each weapon type.  Without that, there's no way to be sure that proportionally more people just happen to like using the m79 over most of the other weapons.

Also I disagree with drawing a line between the m79 and the barrett and claiming that something's wrong.  The barrett has a very low rate of fire and is most effective as a support weapon for carefully taking out one nuissance at a time.  FWIW, that's how it's used in real life.  I wouldn't ever expect it to dominate.

Date Posted: March 20, 2008, 09:41:47 pm
IMO, the M79 are the ultimate weapon in too many situations, the only weak point about M79 is range, and thats it..

*sigh* ... and the reload rate, and the firing arc, and the M.A.D. at close range, etc...

Just remember what ol' Jack Burton does when the earth quakes, the poison arrows fall from the sky, and the pillars of Heaven shake.  Yeah, Jack Burton just looks that big old storm right in the eye and says, "Give me your best shot. I can take it."

Offline Espadon

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2008, 09:11:36 am »
+3 seconds respawn time [lolol] for M79 selfkills would make people more careful about kamikazi'ing? :P
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Offline tehsnipah

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2008, 10:11:26 am »
m79 is alright, except they should have a law that no noobs are allowed to use it
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Offline PaFel

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2008, 10:51:23 am »
m79 is alright, except they should have a law that no noobs are allowed to use it

So how you would learn how to use it in no n00bish way? ;D

Offline Akira

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2008, 03:27:06 pm »
The M79 is one powerful weapon: It kills you instantly on a direct hit. It can boost, kill people beside it, blow up several people with one shot, etc. etc..

It has the most SUCKY arc ever, if you compare it to 1.3.1, it's a huge difference, trust me. It also has the third longest reload of all primary weapons, PLUS it's 1 shell per clip.

You have to be really good if you want to be pro with M79, because it's very hard to shoot a screen-long with it. You must not only have speed and aim the correct angle, but you must make sure you press it off right too. Usually, a lot of people say it's "point-and-click", but it's not that easy.

I personally both love and hate the M79. I love it because of the power and how easy it just floats into the enemies' heads, how the bang hits my ears and allows me to return that flag... It's wonderful.
I also hate it, just because after I miss that shot (damn wall, who put you there?), I have to wait 4 seconds (I'm guessing this is wrong, but whatever), an eternity when you are getting those ruger's bullets shot into your forehead... I hate it when other people use it better than me, throw a small nade in front of them, run past it and boom the ground near it to boost their bodies in the speed of light...

Every weapon needs to be balanced, and the M79 is balanced in this way: You have one, powerful shot. Which gravity loves more than I love strawberries, and which you can shoot as fast as I can do pushups on top speed. It also has a huge chance of blowing yourself up because it already has a big selfhurting percentage. And you must be very good to be able to live 4 seconds between each shot, making sure you are in range of killing your opponent WHILE making sure he hits you as little as possible.

Come on, do you really feel it's necessary to nerf it even more? It's already nerfed to the extent!

In my opinion, there is no need of nerfing this weapon. Compare it with 1.3.1, and you will love it now if you are an anti-M79 player.
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Offline STM1993

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2008, 09:18:35 pm »
Eew, the M79 is good enough. Like everyone else said:

1. I only have 1 shot, though its explosive and its insta-kill IF it hits directly.
2. I need to reload for 180 ticks = 3 seconds (+6 ticks for fire interval)
3. Movement Acc 3
4. Bink 40. And +15 in 1.5? That'd be 55!
5. Close-ranged due to low bullet speed, arc and slow moving projectile

Easily defeated by:
1. Long Range Combat - Eg: Barret and Ruger
2. Slow projectile ; may be easily dodged
3. Possible self-damage if "kamikazee"
4. 3 seconds reload! Dude, that amount of time is enough for a good gunner to kill him.
5. It's own bink and movement acc. It'd make it even more difficult to aim the M79 if under fire or moving.