Author Topic: Solutions to decrease the M79  (Read 5718 times)

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Offline Gortaak

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2008, 08:53:19 am »
Lets say one map was just finished on a ctf server, a new map starts and you're rushing forward with a auto or something, in the middle of the map, u meet a M79 guy, who instant pushes his fire button, and explodes you.
What the hell can you do? There is no wepons who can compite to the M79
Hit the prone key. Thats how you beat an m79 at close range. Everyone does thier little back flip to gain some range on the m79. Every m79er knows this, and predicts accordingly. They all either shoot straight forward, or shoots up. They dont expect you to go prone and dodge under it, then while you are doing this, you shoot thier fakking face off. Out of the last 2 months of me playing (because of coming back from a huge break) I have less deaths to m79s than just about all of the autos. ( I have a stats tracking program) Now this helpfull little trick doesnt work every time, but it works enough times to make it worth it.

Morale of the story: CHANGE YOUR FACKING TACTICS. Every one who whines about this gun, whines about it because they cannot beat it. They whine because they make themselves an easy target. Its not about " LEIK ZOMG DUN RUSH TEH M79 U NAB, DATS WAI U LOZ OLL". You can rush it, just learn to fakking dodge. And yes 8th account, even in gathers, and clan wars, learn to fakking dodge the SLOW MOVING, HUGE, BULLET.

And who the fuck really gets killed by kamakazi's enought to get pissed off by it nowadays anyway? I think ive been kamakazied like 5 times in teh past week.

Just leave the weapon alone. Its a good gun, in the hands of the people that know how to use it. It has strenghs and weaknesses just like any other guy. Learn to adapt and exploit, not whine and nerf. Adapting to guns and situations is what seperates the shat players from the good and fantastic players.

ZOMG NERF, is not the solution to everything.
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Offline Maek|

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2008, 09:37:41 am »
Gortaak, I love you. I have used m79 often since version that didn't have secondary weapons, and I have some skill with it but its annoying when people call noob when i hit "lucky shots" ass they call it.
Soldat since 1.0.5

Offline Überschall

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2008, 10:20:31 am »
- Take away the "granade effect" you miss someone badly, but still kill them because they are at low health, wich isnt possible with any other weapon

Maybe that's because.... it IS a completely different weapon? Why does everyone always want all the weapons to be as equal as possible? If you take the blast radius out, we don't need a grenade launcher at all.
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Offline darkangel

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2008, 03:27:59 pm »
CLOSED ( THE USER WAS BAN FOR THIS POST)

Date Posted: March 25, 2008, 04:26:45 pm
is easy to fight against m79ers just get use to it
redemption for the redemtion...cause I&#039;I&#039;ma Fallen Angel.
do u have what it take to be a fallen angel??

Offline 8th_account

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2008, 08:37:29 pm »
Hit the prone key.
...
And yes 8th account, even in gathers, and clan wars, learn to fakking dodge the SLOW MOVING, HUGE, BULLET.

The world of Soldat isn't only black and white. A miniscule amount of the kills due to the M79, at least in clanwars, are in either the category "long range" or "kamikaze." It's the greyscale that racks up the kills and annoys. In this range an M79 shell cannot easily be dodged on-the-fly. You can however deliberately provoke and feint people into missing, assuming you know where they are, and have a usable directional momentum to act accordingly, considering the map layout and the enemy's own directional momentum. For this to be to your favour as often as possible, you have to sacrifice pace. A sacrifice that shouldn't have to be made in a fast-paced game just because the enemy may or may not be carrying an M79. A sacrifice only RS and trenchwar losers are willing to do.

Offline Überschall

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2008, 09:01:45 pm »
You're saying that as if you'd lose all the momentum forever once you encounter an M79 which clearly isn't the case.
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Offline Gortaak

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2008, 11:09:09 pm »
Hit the prone key.
...
And yes 8th account, even in gathers, and clan wars, learn to fakking dodge the SLOW MOVING, HUGE, BULLET.

The world of Soldat isn't only black and white. A miniscule amount of the kills due to the M79, at least in clanwars, are in either the category "long range" or "kamikaze." It's the greyscale that racks up the kills and annoys. In this range an M79 shell cannot easily be dodged on-the-fly. You can however deliberately provoke and feint people into missing, assuming you know where they are, and have a usable directional momentum to act accordingly, considering the map layout and the enemy's own directional momentum. For this to be to your favour as often as possible, you have to sacrifice pace. A sacrifice that shouldn't have to be made in a fast-paced game just because the enemy may or may not be carrying an M79. A sacrifice only RS and trenchwar losers are willing to do.


Hitting the prone key still works in that "grayscale" area. It works in the air. It ESPICALLY works well when you are rushing the m79, as they are going to shoot forward and you are going to fly under it. Seriously just give it a shot a few times. Its like the same way you dodge the barrett. But like I said, it doesnt ALWAYS work. But works enough so that its a better idea to use. It doesnt make them miss every time. And certainly not when you JUST respawn. But it saves you enough times to make it worth it.

I also agree with you in "tricking" them to take the shot. Also just dead stopping in place on certain maps works well too. Take Nuubia for example: You are grabbing red flag, either up or low, and the m79er is up or low (opposite of where you are). You keep moving at a constant pace, untill the edge where it opens untill mid. If you stop, RIGHT there, the m79 will miss you.

But the entire point of my posts, are to say that the m79 doesnt need to be nerfed. Its not as difficult as most of the noobs that scream nerf think it is.

And of course, there are the people that are just amazing with it, and hit you no matter WHAT you do. But does that mean it needs to get nerfed? In that case, nerf everything. Actually, take all the guns out of soldat, and make everyone hug each other. That would be fair and ballanced right?

And before you say Im defending it because thats all I use. I use the AK, Steyr, Mp5 and Spas, more than I use the m79.

And Im sorry if my post came off as me trying to flame or be an ass. Im not. Apologies in advance.

:)
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Offline 8th_account

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #47 on: March 26, 2008, 06:57:17 am »
Only dodging isn't good for much. Most decent clanners combine it with worming and jetting up and down to get the most out of it. But even so, it's only useful for a handful of the times and will only work in specific situations.

Even if it worked, you saying that it does won't prevent it from being overused in pubs and sctfl.

Offline Überschall

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #48 on: March 26, 2008, 07:39:24 am »
FFS. The M79 is a different weapon. You're always phrasing your arguments as though the M79 shouldn't get any kills at all.
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Offline ViN

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #49 on: March 26, 2008, 07:40:15 am »
This is where climbing helps alot, easiest way to avoid a M79 bullet is to have high speed, and do a latebackflip just after they shoot.
Almost all of the people who whine about m79 being overpowered, are simply noobs, or total idiots, who are rushing into an m79'er.

Geekier than you!

Offline 8th_account

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #50 on: March 26, 2008, 08:00:51 am »
FFS. The M79 is a different weapon. You're always phrasing your arguments as though the M79 shouldn't get any kills at all.
They're various counter-arguments against Gortaak's claims that M79 doesn't need a tweak because you can dodge.

And how should we teach every new player to dodge then? Accomplishing this task would surely decrease M79 usage. Maybe if we all hold hands and wish real hard it'd come true.

Offline poopdogg

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #51 on: March 26, 2008, 08:02:02 am »
FFS. The M79 is a different weapon. You're always phrasing your arguments as though the M79 shouldn't get any kills at all.
They're various counter-arguments against Gortaak's claims that M79 doesn't need a tweak because you can dodge.

And how should we teach every new player to dodge then? Accomplishing this task would surely decrease M79 usage. Maybe if we all hold hands and wish real hard it'd come true.
lets hold hands ;D weeeeeeeeeeeeeee

(Sorry if I am unintelligent, since the knowledge I have only comes from a school text book...)

Offline Überschall

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2008, 08:07:41 am »
Why "teaching"? If you're good enough, you can dodge shots from a little distance. Maybe you can't dodge the close range ones then. Well okay, you can't dodge a short range shot with the spas either because it's too strong at that and that's it's effective range. The M79 is made to own you at middle/short range so why decrease it even in that range?
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Offline Gortaak

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2008, 09:26:12 am »
No, but seriously. Why nerf it? Why is it, that you nerf every single gun? Its not over powered ffs.  Havent you heard the phrase "dont fix it if it aint broke"? Say you do smash this thing with the nerf ANVIL, and no one uses it. There will be another gun that every single noob will flock too. Then you will destroy that with the nerf stick, and so on, and so forth, untill there is NOTHING LEFT. All this fucking nerfing is going ot ruin this fakking game. Everyone is always going to whine/cry/bitch about the gun that ownes them the most.

If you wanna talk about overpowered, look at the damn ruger. Anyone with atleast decent aim can drop you in 2 shots before you can kill them. Unless you rett or worm the shit outta a ruger. If you are an auto user you are just fucked. But you know what? Just because it takes about a week of practice to use it good, you wont nerf it. You probably will add MORE damage to it.

Look at the m79 in comparason to the other guns that surround it. It get one shot, that moves slow, hardly registers when you need it to, 3 seconds to reload it after every shot, and horrible range unless you know what you are doing with it. And you are talking about "Tweaking" it? YEAH OK. Since when does the beta team tweak anything that is "overpowered"? They just smash it with their nerf cannons, and ruin it.

And who really care if noobs flock to one gun? So what its easy for them, thats how they get into the game. If you make EVERY gun super fucking hard to kill with, then there wont be very many new people. Games need easy guns for new people, so they have fun, and keep playing the game. Eventually they will get bored and experiment with other guns, and then the problem is solved. And before you all say, WELL OMG THEY KILLD ME IN TEH ONE SHOT, HOW IZ IT FUN FOAR ME? LIEK NOT FARE! Well, look at it this way, you all have one year + on any noob that joins this game. How is it fun or fair for them, when they can barely get 1 shot off at you, before you rape their face off? Soldat thrives on new player, and needs a steady influx of them to keep this game going. Let them have one fucking gun that they can have fun with to get addicted to this game.

And as for :
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Only dodging isn't good for much. Most decent clanners combine it with worming and jetting up and down to get the most out of it. But even so, it's only useful for a handful of the times and will only work in specific situations.

Have you ever tried to do it? Seriously? Saying that it only works in specific situations is completely wrong. It works in 90% of situations. Here, I will go into a pub filled with these guns, make a demo of me dodging 90% of shots, with this tactic, and show you how its done. Ill also make a demo of it in a gather, or an sctfl match when it starts (or any other league match for that matter). Just because a gun kicks the shit outta people that are too lazy to try not to get hit by it, doesnt mean you should just jump on the bandwagon and nerf it untill extinction.

And over used? What about grenades? Those are the MOST USED weapon, EVER.  They can kill in one shot, or damn close to it most times. Look on EVERY server that has stats enabled, and the top killer WILL be nades. Why dont we just get rid of them? People kamakazi with those, nade  spam your base, and you can drop all 3 of them in a blink of an eye into an enemies face, you can boost off of them/ with them. Anything that you can whine about with the m79, can apply to grenades, execpt grenades are more plentiful.
And here to even bring in your old lists to PROVE my point:

Liek omg 20 THOUSAND more kills than m79? OH GEEZE!
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Semi-pro gather
  [Grenade] => 52255 <----
    [M79] => 32812 <---
   
What is this? 6 THOUSAND more than m79?
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Pro gather before the 1.5 WM was used... 2nd most used primary, almost trice as many kills as barret...
Array
(
    [Grenade] => 17697 <---
    [Desert Eagles] => 14699
    [M79] => 11694 <---
   
Oh and sctfl 10, and m79 has  1/3 as many kills as nades, and 1/2 as many as steyr and ak? Less kills than the knife? Wow, not much whoring if you ask me.
Quote
sctfl10 server... 4th most used primary, twice as many kills as barret... still pretty bad.
Array
(
    [Grenade] => 34795   <---
    [Steyr AUG] => 28495
    [Ak-74] => 25724
    [Ruger 77] => 17458
    [Combat Knife] => 13473
    [M79] => 13077 <---


So, by your reasoning, we should nerf nades too, because they are the most over used weapon in the game. Remember, anything that a m79 can do so can nades, with a bit less range.
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Offline Ziem

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2008, 12:22:11 pm »
Gortaak - ...
If you wanna talk about overpowered, look at the damn ruger. Anyone with atleast decent aim can drop you in 2 shots before you can kill them. Unless you rett or worm the bollocks outta a ruger. If you are an auto user you are just fecked. But you know what? Just because it takes about a week of practice to use it good, you wont nerf it. You probably will add MORE damage to it.
Nah... Ruger sometimes (I'd say, against experienced player, 60%?..) can't really kill in 2 shots. And it take a *bit* more time to be good with it, than just a week.

And with m79?... I don't whine about it, but it's so damn overused that it deserves for a nerf (like +15 bink // 1.5/gath ftw.)

So, by your reasoning, we should nerf nades too, because they are the most over used weapon in
?
Everyone has nades = everyone can use it = they are balanced.


Btw. Do you know who the hell is Skoskav? ;E ...

I agree with that M79 is overused for *some reason*...

Offline Überschall

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #55 on: March 26, 2008, 12:29:07 pm »
And with m79?... I don't whine about it, but it's so damn overused that it deserves for a nerf (like +15 bink // 1.5/gath ftw.)

No. Why would you nerf a weapon just because of that? Then, newbies will grab a different weapon and that becomes overused and you'll want to nerf that, too, right?
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Offline 8th_account

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #56 on: March 26, 2008, 12:39:15 pm »
No, but seriously. Why nerf it? Why is it, that you nerf every single gun? Its not over powered ffs.  Havent you heard the phrase "dont fix it if it aint broke"? Say you do smash this thing with the nerf ANVIL, and no one uses it. There will be another gun that every single noob will flock too. Then you will destroy that with the nerf stick, and so on, and so forth, untill there is NOTHING LEFT. All this fecking nerfing is going ot ruin this fakking game. Everyone is always going to whine/cry/twat about the gun that ownes them the most.
1) It's getting nerfed because it's exceedingly overused.
2) That phrase does often apply. Too bad that the M79 is relatively "broke." It's an overwhealmingly popular weapon for offensive close-mid range combat.
3) Nerfs aren't as common anymore as you think they are. Perhaps you're still upset about the changes from 1.2.1 --> 1.3 --> 1.3.1? Behold the changelogs for the WMs I were responsible for:
http://nopaste.biz/38597 1.3.1 --> 1.4
http://nopaste.biz/38598 1.4.1 --> 1.4.2
http://nopaste.biz/38599 current 1.5 draft

Quote
If you wanna talk about overpowered, look at the damn ruger. Anyone with atleast decent aim can drop you in 2 shots before you can kill them. Unless you rett or worm the bollocks outta a ruger. If you are an auto user you are just fecked. But you know what? Just because it takes about a week of practice to use it good, you wont nerf it. You probably will add MORE damage to it.
Do some reasearch / Play some gathers / Look at WM above.

Quote
Look at the m79 in comparason to the other guns that surround it. It get one shot, that moves slow, hardly registers when you need it to, 3 seconds to reload it after every shot, and horrible range unless you know what you are doing with it. And you are talking about "Tweaking" it? YEAH OK. Since when does the beta team tweak anything that is "overpowered"? They just smash it with their nerf cannons, and ruin it.
1) The bullet doesn't always move "slowly." When rushing (which is when the M79 is the most overwhealming for the other players), the shell's muzzle velocity could be as high as 160, and theoretically even higher. That means a speed between spas' and socom's normal muzzle velocity.
2) Poor hit registration isn't a reason to make a gun stronger. All guns are affected by it.

Quote
And who really care if noobs flock to one gun? So what its easy for them, thats how they get into the game. If you make EVERY gun super fecking hard to kill with, then there wont be very many new people. Games need easy guns for new people, so they have fun, and keep playing the game. Eventually they will get bored and experiment with other guns, and then the problem is solved. And before you all say, WELL OMG THEY KILLD ME IN TEH ONE SHOT, HOW IZ IT FUN FOAR ME? LIEK NOT FARE! Well, look at it this way, you all have one year + on any noob that joins this game. How is it fun or fair for them, when they can barely get 1 shot off at you, before you rape their face off? Soldat thrives on new player, and needs a steady influx of them to keep this game going. Let them have one fecking gun that they can have fun with to get addicted to this game.
One starter weapon? Don't be so negative. I'm aiming for ten. Wouldn't that be more fun and dynamic?

Quote
And as for :
Quote
Only dodging isn't good for much. Most decent clanners combine it with worming and jetting up and down to get the most out of it. But even so, it's only useful for a handful of the times and will only work in specific situations.

Have you ever tried to do it? Seriously? Saying that it only works in specific situations is completely wrong. It works in 90% of situations. Here, I will go into a pub filled with these guns, make a demo of me dodging 90% of shots, with this tactic, and show you how its done. Ill also make a demo of it in a gather, or an sctfl match when it starts (or any other league match for that matter). Just because a gun kicks the bollocks outta people that are too lazy to try not to get hit by it, doesnt mean you should just jump on the bandwagon and nerf it untill extinction.
With "decent claners" I ment gather+ or above actually. But yeah, do some pubs as well. gl hf with that.

Quote
And over used? What about grenades? Those are the MOST USED weapon, EVER.  They can kill in one shot, or damn close to it most times. Look on EVERY server that has stats enabled, and the top killer WILL be nades. Why dont we just get rid of them? People kamakazi with those, nade  spam your base, and you can drop all 3 of them in a blink of an eye into an enemies face, you can boost off of them/ with them. Anything that you can whine about with the m79, can apply to grenades, execpt grenades are more plentiful.
And here to even bring in your old lists to PROVE my point:

Liek omg 20 THOUSAND more kills than m79? OH GEEZE!
Quote
snip


So, by your reasoning, we should nerf nades too, because they are the most over used weapon in the game. Remember, anything that a m79 can do so can nades, with a bit less range.
Everyone carry around nades. It's not at all a primary weapon. Technically it's a tertiary.

Offline Überschall

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #57 on: March 26, 2008, 01:39:13 pm »
If you want ten starter weapons, we don't need weapons at all. The M79 is used by beginners because it's easys to have first success with it and nothing more if you're not really good. That would mean if you want ten starter weapons, screw all weapons and only leave the AK left or whatever.
There's no point in nerfing a gun because many newcomers use it. And yet again, you make it sound as if you were of the opinion that the M79 should be nerfed just because it kills. You would never get the idea to talk about dodging the AK-74. Or the AUG. Nobody goes on there and says "You can't dodge it's bullets, nerf it!". Yes, the M79 can kill you if shot at you, just like every weapon. And I don't know how much further you want to nerf it to shy newbies away from it. It is, afterall, a grenade launcher and that also attracted me when I first started playing because it kills in one hit, afterall. Bink or whatever, a newbie doesn't care, he most likely doesn't even know what bink is. He just sees that if he hits someone, he kills. Or even several people. So the only reasonable nerf would be taking away the one hit kill ;).
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Offline Gortaak

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2008, 01:45:28 pm »
I play gathers and clan wars every day, more so than pubs, and I seriously never have any fakking trouble against the m79, execpt the second I spawn and I get sploded, but that doesnt matter. And I do play against good players as well.

As for the pub comments, YOU are the one that brought up the comment about a pub filled with them. So my response was to show you, it doesnt matter, you can still dodge it.  And making a demo of dodging them in gathers was to prove that you can dodge it and still rush.


As for the Nade comment, You were the one bringing up stats comparing it to other weapons and how many kills it got. Everyone has nades, sure, but everyone can have a fecking m79 as well. Your points are completely mute.

As for your ruger comment. You go play some gathers, and YOU do some research. The ruger is a 2 shot gun, anyone with decent aim can pop you off in 2 shots, and hell, they got 4 of them, so if they miss thier 1st shot, they can still drop you pretty fast. Espically on Laos. All they gotta do is stay at range, or even rush you. It doesnt matter. But I dont care, keep it the way it is.


But I DO agree with all 10 being easily accessable to all players. More diversity would be nice. And best of luck to it. But it will NEVER happen.

Oh and ubershall, I completely agree with you, execpt taking away the 1 hit kill, that would ruin it compeltely.

But bleh, none of this will sink in anyways, so its like arguing with a wall. :/
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 01:47:23 pm by Gortaak »
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Offline Überschall

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Re: Solutions to decrease the M79
« Reply #59 on: March 26, 2008, 02:11:41 pm »
The one hit kill thing was just to show that there's no way to nerf the M79 in order to decrease it's popularity amongst newbies. I wasn't serious.
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