The AUG in Normal...

[-Major-]

if I remembered right, 1.3.1 aug's bink made aug's very first bullet useless unless you are really close to the target.

psssh, you can always aim the first bullet and then move your crosshair.

[STM1993]

Bink has almost nothing to do with accuracy unless we're talking about the minigun.

Why is that so? I mean, wouldn't the self-bink be of some effect if you held down the trigger in any way? (be it in bursts or spray) And why "unless we're talking about minigun"?

[-Major-]

Bink has almost nothing to do with accuracy unless we're talking about the minigun.

Why is that so? I mean, wouldn't the self-bink be of some effect if you held down the trigger in any way? (be it in bursts or spray)

it has somewhat effect, if you're fireing a longer period. try to constantly holding the fire-key (not letting it go during reload) and you'll see how much selfbink can do ^^

[excruciator]

Well you're wrong then. The first-bullet-inaccuracy-thing-on-steyr is a sort of bug, not a result of the selfbink. That's why its still there even today.

yes, but by increasing the selfbink you make the first bullet more useless, since you are not gonna use that bullet path, but you are gonna use the one where most bullet goes.

[8th_account]

Ya that could be true. But tell me again, why are we discussing the inaccuracy of the 1.3.1 steyr?

Bink has almost nothing to do with accuracy unless we're talking about the minigun.

Why is that so? I mean, wouldn't the self-bink be of some effect if you held down the trigger in any way? (be it in bursts or spray) And why "unless we're talking about minigun"?

Selfbink is first applied on the 4th bullet. And in the older versions, pro players seldom fired in burst longer than that. In current versions, it's going to take a handful of fired bullets before the selfbink has grown to a value that would noticably obscure a bullet's angle.

Miniguns cannot fire effectively in bursts. If you try, you have to wait 50 ticks before you can do another burst.

[excruciator]

Ya that could be true. But tell me again, why are we discussing the inaccuracy of the 1.3.1 steyr?

because that is a better balance than we got right now, or 1.5

Date Posted: April 24, 2008, 12:18:53 pm

Selfbink is first applied on the 4th bullet.

then how come the +8 something bink for sna balance changed steyr's accuracy that much?
if we just burst it by 4-6 we wouldnt feel any difference. Yet I can't manage 1.5 steyr for crap.

[8th_account]

Are you saying the small buff in accuracy worsened your aim?

because that is a better balance than we got right now, or 1.5

Elaborate please

[excruciator]

Are you saying the small buff in accuracy worsened your aim?

because that is a better balance than we got right now, or 1.5

Elaborate please

yes, it does worsen my aim. But who cares about my aim. The point is that 1.5 balance for steyr is getting very easy. The role of ak will be replaced by the aug. back in 1.3.1 all auto had difference roles. but now they all feel the same.

[8th_account]

The reliable 40-rounder auto will have its role as a 1vMany gun replaced by the nerfed 25-rounder? This doesn't make sense.

[excruciator]

The reliable 40-rounder auto will have its role as a 1vMany gun replaced by the nerfed 25-rounder? This doesn't make sense.

In term of accuracy, ak was supposed to be the best, then minimi for whom was able to control it, then aug, and mp5.
ak was extremely accurate and proeffient at mid-long range, prolonged dogfights. Minimi was the best support gun, offer decent dps, big clip(typical support) and moderate accuracy. Aug was supposed to be a hybrid of ak and MP5, very fast but not extremely accurate, decent for rushers. And mp5 was the assault weapon, fast n furious, close ranged, works wonderfully with nades.

Now, the accuracy was boosted, steyr replaces AK. Minimi got a buff, is now much more accurate, has moved from support gun to 
a hybrid of assault and dogfighting gun. Mp5 got more accuracy and less dmg, its role is not as obvious now, and Ak is now the jack of all guns for ace of nothing. Now I know we are not talking about minimi, ak, mp5 right now, but the roles are now not as evident, its bound to make some gun useless.

[a-4-year-old]

Bink has almost nothing to do with accuracy unless we're talking about the minigun.

Why is that so? I mean, wouldn't the self-bink be of some effect if you held down the trigger in any way? (be it in bursts or spray) And why "unless we're talking about minigun"?

Selfbink is first applied on the 4th bullet. And in the older versions, pro players seldom fired in burst longer than that. In current versions, it's going to take a handful of fired bullets before the selfbink has grown to a value that would noticably obscure a bullet's angle.

Miniguns cannot fire effectively in bursts. If you try, you have to wait 50 ticks before you can do another burst.

So if you believe that bink is so useless why don't you just get rid of it?

[jerich]

So if you believe that bink is so useless why don't you just get rid of it?

He never said it was useless. I think he was implying that bink nor self-bink should not determine a player's accuracy but the ability to shoot in bursts and kill opposing players successfully.

[8th_account]

Now, the accuracy was boosted, steyr replaces AK. Minimi got a buff, is now much more accurate, has moved from support gun to 
a hybrid of assault and dogfighting gun. Mp5 got more accuracy and less dmg, its role is not as obvious now, and Ak is now the jack of all guns for ace of nothing. Now I know we are not talking about minimi, ak, mp5 right now, but the roles are now not as evident, its bound to make some gun useless.

Seems like you're mixing version transitions.

Assuming 1.3.1 --> 1.5:
The Ak loses a lot more selfbink than steyr does. Both gain +1 moveacc. How does the steyr become more accurate than Ak?
Minimi got less accurate for most decent players as selfbink does not affect them much. Moveacc however, which isn't as easily bypassed, was increased by +2 units.
Ak became a multi-role weapon? Good! It fits its real life characteristics.

So if you believe that bink is so useless why don't you just get rid of it?

Selfbink is being phased out. Even in 1.4.2 it's barely noticable. Other beta henchmen objected to removing it right away due to it may causing completely unexpected results.

So if you believe that bink is so useless why don't you just get rid of it?

He never said it was useless. I think he was implying that bink nor self-bink should not determine a player's accuracy but the ability to shoot in bursts and kill opposing players successfully.

Nah, I think it's pretty useless.

[STM1993]

Ohhh... I see.

So what are the autos becoming? MP5 is a rusher, but what is gonna happen to the other autos (includes minigun)?

[excruciator]

Now, the accuracy was boosted, steyr replaces AK. Minimi got a buff, is now much more accurate, has moved from support gun to
a hybrid of assault and dogfighting gun. Mp5 got more accuracy and less dmg, its role is not as obvious now, and Ak is now the jack of all guns for ace of nothing. Now I know we are not talking about minimi, ak, mp5 right now, but the roles are now not as evident, its bound to make some gun useless.

Seems like you're mixing version transitions.

Assuming 1.3.1 --> 1.5:
The Ak loses a lot more selfbink than steyr does. Both gain +1 moveacc. How does the steyr become more accurate than Ak?
Minimi got less accurate for most decent players as selfbink does not affect them much. Moveacc however, which isn't as easily bypassed, was increased by +2 units.
Ak became a multi-role weapon? Good! It fits its real life characteristics.

So if you believe that bink is so useless why don't you just get rid of it?

Selfbink is being phased out. Even in 1.4.2 it's barely noticable. Other beta henchmen objected to removing it right away due to it may causing completely unexpected results.

So if you believe that bink is so useless why don't you just get rid of it?

He never said it was useless. I think he was implying that bink nor self-bink should not determine a player's accuracy but the ability to shoot in bursts and kill opposing players successfully.

Nah, I think it's pretty useless.

Ak got less selfbink now. But that boost is not as useful because ak is already a very very accurate gun. A slight improvement in accuracy does not help ak much(does not increase dps). However, when you boost the accuracy of steyr, more bullets are now able to hit. That increased the dps of steyr, resulting in a much drastic change.

[STM1993]

Also, note that the AK's bink is +1 only, but for the Aug it is like +5 around there.

[excruciator]

Also, note that the AK's bink is +1 only, but for the Aug it is like +5 around there.

come on. Picture this.

Imagine a boost of accuracy for AK.
Ak is already a mid ranged gun with great accuracy, you are supposed to be very accurate with the gun.

Now picture a boost in accuracy for MP5.
MP5 is high dmg + high cycle rate to compensate the lack of accuracy, now it has more accuracy.
Now, which one is better off with a boost in accuracy?(if the boost had been the same)

I know mp5 is not steyr. Steyr doesnt have the dmg, but it has the bullet speed(and we all know that there is some link between bullet speed and dmg) and the cycle rate.


PS.: was that a reply for me or someone else?

Either way, this post would surely make my point clear(er)

[STM1993]

come on. Picture this.

Imagine a boost of accuracy for AK.
Ak is already a mid ranged gun with great accuracy, you are supposed to be very accurate with the gun.

Now picture a boost in accuracy for MP5.
MP5 is high dmg + high cycle rate to compensate the lack of accuracy, now it has more accuracy.
Now, which one is better off with a boost in accuracy?(if the boost had been the same)

I know mp5 is not steyr. Steyr doesnt have the dmg, but it has the bullet speed(and we all know that there is some link between bullet speed and dmg) and the cycle rate.


PS.: was that a reply for me or someone else?

Either way, this post would surely make my point clear(er)

I see... I get what you mean now.

[The Rogue]

btw aug has some somewhat anti-bink when moving

[Misio]

There should be dmg -2 or something. Im sure there won't be 25 bullets, you can test it and it suck as hard as girl can do it.