The AUG in Normal...

[tacoterrorist]

Steyr AUG is at the level that all autos should be at.

[STM1993]

[Steyr AUG]
Damage=73
FireInterval=7
Ammo=30
ReloadTime=115
Speed=260
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=-22
MovementAcc=2
Recoil=0

^ This is the stat of the current 1.4.2 Steyr Aug.

In 1.5, the possible mod, according to two weapon.ini files, the two possible Steyr Aug stats would be either:

// Steyr        ammo -5, bink +7 (Exposition)
// Steyr        dmg -1, ammo -5, bink +6 (Rescue-Gaara)

What if it is:
// Steyr :   dmg -1, ammo -2
Instead? -5 ammo may be a bit too much unless the Aug has a reasonable buff to make up for it, but must still be weaker than what it currently is.

[JonWood007]

I think it is fine as it is. If anything, I think the other autos should be made as powerful as the aug, not weakening the aug.

Why lower the ammo capacity? That would make it too weak IMO. Most autos have 30 rounds, not 25.

[excruciator]

I think it is fine as it is. If anything, I think the other autos should be made as powerful as the aug, not weakening the aug.

Why lower the ammo capacity? That would make it too weak IMO. Most autos have 30 rounds, not 25.

yep, with -5 bullets, you cant kill two enemy with one clip anymore.

[STM1993]

yep, with -5 bullets, you cant kill two enemy with one clip anymore.

Actually, you still can kill at least 2 full-health enemies. It takes 9 shots to kill someone with an Aug. 9 x 2 = 18. 25 - 18 = 7. Of course, if you miss more than 7 shots or bullets did not reg, then this calculation is null.

[Ziem]

-5 ammo = perfect solution to prevent spraying
It's overpowered ; why don't nerf it?

I think that it should be as 'specialized' as other autos, so it can look like :
- Mp5 - close range auto
- Ak - jack of all trades... but more useful in long range due to it's accuracy
- Steyr - fast and deadly, '1vs1 gun' (mid range)
- Minimi - support weapon

Now Steyr is able to easily kill 2 opponents without reloading, only Ak and Minimi should (in mid range...)

[JonWood007]

AK really isnt that bad off against the aug....which brings me to my argument against lowering the ammo. AKers win if they survive an auger's barrage. Due to a much lower ROF and much higher ammo, the AK still has like half a clip left when an auger runs out of ammo. So say an aug sprays and misses. Then Mr. AK74 comes in and blows mr. AUG away while he is forced to reload. This happens frequently as it is with the AUG. Lowering the ammo would nerf it too much. I think the -5 ammo is a horrible idea, personally.

[STM1993]

AK really isnt that bad off against the aug....which brings me to my argument against lowering the ammo. AKers win if they survive an auger's barrage. Due to a much lower ROF and much higher ammo, the AK still has like half a clip left when an auger runs out of ammo. So say an aug sprays and misses. Then Mr. AK74 comes in and blows mr. AUG away while he is forced to reload. This happens frequently as it is with the AUG. Lowering the ammo would nerf it too much. I think the -5 ammo is a horrible idea, personally.

Then again, think about it:

The Aug is built to rush in, kill one or two persons quickly, reload, and then attack again (which is also what MP5 is for). The AK is built to last long battles, and is more of slow and steady. The Aug can rival the AK in accuracy.

I support having the -5 ammo, not because I hate the Aug or whatever, but it all comes down to the player who uses the weapon and some statistics about it.

The Aug can kill 3 people actually. -5 ammo prevents it from killing more than 2. I've always found the Aug so versatile that it actually out-classes all other autos in the same purpose. The MP5 is supposed to be the close-range speed rusher, the AK is supposed to be the damager/slow and steady one, the Minimi's supposed to be a support weapon and a bit more specialized. The Aug is too versatile ; it can rush as well or even better than the MP5, it can hold out quite a while with 30 ammo, it has excellent range + bullet speed. We want to make the Aug less versatile and more specialized so that it is less overpowered.

Since the Aug has been proven to be the best 1v1 auto and at the same time pretty strong against large groups (which the Minimi and AK are supposed to specialize in), it is decided that the ammo should be reduced, but the accuracy increased so it fulfills the goal of having its true specialty as a 1v1 weapon, and one of the weapon of choices for chasing.

If the Aug player is able to make every shot count in his initial rush, he instantly wins (unless you throw a nade in or whatever, which the Aug-user can also do to you). If the AK player can hold out until the Aug-user finishes his clip, the AK guy is very likely to win. If both are equally skilled, the ratio is 50/50.

We've got better guns for spraying, like Minigun, Minimi or maybe even the MP5 given its high speed. There is no reason why the Aug should be the best weapon of Soldat when all weapons are meant to be balanced.

Also, I would like to quote from 8th_account in another topic related to weapons (Minimi):

The only buff/nerf I'd like to see is the self-bink value.

Minimi's good enough.

This is what I would deem fitting as well. But since the general tone of the next version is to have stronger and more user-friendly weapons, all weapons will be buffed more than needed and those nerfed will be nerfed less than needed. I personally consider the current experimental Minimi to be pretty fine for that goal. Perhaps it's the other weapons that aren't as good.

It seems like everyone is using the Aug just because it is so pwnage and they are used to it too. But people did not realize that there are other weapons just as powerful or have even greater potential. And also for the fact that some players are lazy to master a certain weapon cuz it can be tough.

Have people forgotten about DEs and Ruger for example? They are easily the most potentially powerful weapons of Soldat. Ruger is actually pretty simple to use and powerful, so for a semi-auto, lots of people use it, like the Aug.

DEs? They are just tough to use because of the bullet speed (the curve). So people turn away from DEs because of this, even though its potential is just as high as Ruger when used in the right hands.

[JonWood007]

Im all for making the AUG balanced, but I think -5 ammo is a bad idea. I mean, what kind of gun has 25 round clips to begin with?

Weaken the damage or the ROF maybe. Or go back to something similar to 1.3.1. where the autos were all stronger.

I find almost all weapons to be equally useful. Ive run into many occasions in which I cant kill anything with aug. Then I switch to AK and get tons of kills. AUG isnt that overpowered. I agree it is a little bit, but not that much. If used correctly, the minimi is a steamroller. MP5 could use a slight boost. And my weapon of choice, the AK, is powerful too. AUG has its uses, and it is versatile, but its bink evens it out somewhat.

If you really play enough and think about it, all weapons are powerful. I use all guns except minigun, knife, and chainsaw (the last 2 arent even guns either). I find all guns situational. Even the AUG. If you try to use other guns and get good with them, you will realize the aug aint that bad.

30 rounds goes fast to me. Sure, it is possible to kill like 3 people with it per clip, but you can with MP5, minimi, and ak74 too. Im great at getting multikills with the ak74. I rush with it all the time.

[excruciator]

yep, with -5 bullets, you cant kill two enemy with one clip anymore.

Actually, you still can kill at least 2 full-health enemies. It takes 9 shots to kill someone with an Aug. 9 x 2 = 18. 25 - 18 = 7. Of course, if you miss more than 7 shots or bullets did not reg, then this calculation is null.

STM, most of your assumptions comes from stats/math alone. And sometime those dont work.

What you said is humanly possible, but not practical/very hard to do.

First there is human errors. even if you dont miss anything, You are still going to waste at least 3-4 bullets due to the fact that even if you do stop firing immediatly the opponent is killed, you still waste 3-4 shots because the bullet does not travel to the target instantly.(basically, the bullet you fired 1 sec(I know its not a sec, but work with me) ago killed the opponent. But you would still shot 3 more while the killing bullet is travalling, and those bullets goes for the overkill(waste))This is unavoidable,unless you time it. (thats why its not practical)

I would rather balance an auto in terms of selfbink or movimentAcc than clipsize.

EDIT: Also, what competitive player actually kill solemnly with gun? I mean the nade+auto is so popular that -5 bullet will not affect any efficient player.

[LtKillroy]

I like the -5 ammo because it is so straightforward. Solid nerf, not stupid damage calculation better in this situation worse in this one, etc. Things like movement accuracy and self-bink are so easy to get past, they are hardly nerfs. This will seriously cut down in usage. I only wonder what the new overused weapon will be.

[excruciator]

Weaken the damage or the ROF maybe. Or go back to something similar to 1.3.1. where the autos were all stronger.

Agreed, the semis always had a better DPS than autos. even in 1.3.1.
8th said that the reason for auto nerf is that no one was touching the semis. Semis always had a niche of their own, they always had better DPS. Nerfing the autos is not the solution.(fixing stuff that was never broken is never the solution)

[8th_account]

what kind of gun has 25 round clips to begin with?

The K7 Avenger from Perfect Dark sure does! It's that game's own version of our Steyr AUG.

If I had nerfed the damage or ROF instead, everyone except you would have whined that all the weapons are more similar than ever before. A clip size of 25 is unique and depicts the steyr's role more clearly. It should almost discourage against fighting multiple enemies.


excr something, what are you on about?

[excruciator]

I'm saying that other autos needs boost, not nerf.

[8th_account]

Well, the other autos did get boosts. So mission accomplished I suppose?

[JonWood007]

Any real guns I mean?

And yeah, Id say the other autos should be boosted. I like the AUG as it is.

I still think lower clip size for aug would weaken it too much. After all, with its ROF it goes very quickly. Maybe expand the reload time instead?

But overall, I am more for making the other autos up to the level of the aug rather than nerfing the aug.

[excruciator]

Well, the other autos did get boosts. So mission accomplished I suppose?

Please state exactly what kind of boost the auto got from 1.3.1 to 1.4.2

[8th_account]

What does that have to do with the 1.5 balance?

WM history with changelogs:
http://ef.diinoweb.com/files/pub/soldat/beta/weapons.zip

[TheWind]

It's going to be balanced in 1.5... so just be patient (current changes are -5 ammo, -1 dmg, +7 bink)

Noo!,plz dont change it.I think its fine.I finally get kills with it

[Magus86]

-5 ammo is the most retarded idea I've ever heard of in my entire life... Reducing its ammo doesn't "define its role" better... And by the way, I'll never be able to figure out why the AK has 40 rounds... change the AUG's ROF or damage, for christ's sake, not the magazine capacity... Oh, and to the person who said something about the guns being too similar if we do that... Isn't that the whole point in BALANCING them? so that there's little or no advantage to one player or the other? If you made every single gun have the exact same properties, that's more feckin balanced than anything else you could do...

As far as balance is concerned, the guns are fine the way they are now. The AUG is not overpowered, and what's the point in continuously making the weapons different with every release? how about TESTING before you release in the first place? If you already are, you're doing a piss poor job if the weapons need to be changed every damn release.

 And by the way, I realize this isn't meant to be a serious or overly realistic game, but for the sake of not raping the guns, if we have to change something about a gun that strips it of its identity, why not replace it with a totally different gun then?

And STM, I have a quick question for you... Real life AUG fires 650 RPM. Real life M4 fires between 700 and 950 RPM... Which means the M4 fires at least 50 RPM faster than an AUG... HOW THE HELL is reducing the AUG's ROF going to make it an M4???

And by the way, Considering the information I just presented... An AK-74 fires about 650 RPM as well. So technically the AUG and AK should fire at about the same rate. Not only that, but they should do about the same damage too. Here's an idea... scrap the AUG entirely since it's so close the AK... and replace it with a G3, M14, or FN FAL. That would make more sense, since we have NO 7mm assault rifle. All 3 have 20 round clips, do more damage than an AK-74 or AUG, and have more recoil... Make it somewhat realistic. Then you won't be able to spray like a retard like some of you are complaining about with the AUG. And if you do, tough shit. You'll miss, run out of ammo quickly, and die.

Sometimes I wonder if some of you know anything about guns at all...