The AUG in Normal...

[Ziem]

Making every gun the same is even more retarded.

how about TESTING before you release in the first place?

ORLY?
What are betatesters doing then?

[STM1993]

And the release is not exactly out yet... it is still experimental.

And no, I'm ignorant on the subject of real guns, so pardon my lack of knowledge.

[Magus86]

Making every gun the same is even more retarded.

how about TESTING before you release in the first place?

ORLY?
What are betatesters doing then?

Obviously not a good enough job if we have to change the damn weapons everytime there's another release... 

and while we're on the subject of the beta testers, how'd the broken netcode slip thru the cracks? When I first played Soldat at least 4 years ago, I wasn't dying from invisible, non-explosive, inexplicable grenades, and I didn't see people get launched 8000 feet from an m79 grenade to the face yet remain unharmed.

I'm well aware of the retardedness of having all guns the same. But like I said, that's the most balance you'll ever get. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this section of the forums is about balancing the weapons, is it not?

And uh... way to ignore the rest of my post.

That's fine, STM, you're excused because you at least admitted not knowing. By the way, here's a really good handy tool for learning about guns. http://world.guns.ru/main-e.htm

Here's an even better idea... instead of getting rid of the AUG, change the AK-74 to an AK-47, give it a bit more damage, and get rid of that damn 40 round magazine that makes no sense. That solution requires a lot less work. I'd like to see a good balance between realistic representations of weapons and keeping the weapons as close to equal as possible... instead of "let's just change whatever the hell we want to whether it makes sense or not."

[Ziem]

Lowering ammo + increasing dmg in Ak = 2nd Steyr (and maybe even better).
It's a game, there's no need to use 'real' weapons.

"let's just change whatever the hell we want to whether it makes sense or not."

Nerfing the Steyr makes sense, 'cause it's overpowered atm.

[Pie]

Lowering ammo + increasing dmg in Ak = 2nd Steyr (and maybe even better).
It's a game, there's no need to use 'real' weapons.

"let's just change whatever the hell we want to whether it makes sense or not."

Nerfing the Steyr makes sense, 'cause it's overpowered atm.

You're all spouting statistics and numbers that I don't frankly care about, but what I can contribute to is that I feel as if the steyr is good, it's nifty for most situations. that's the main thing, it FEELS right, every weapon can kill you, it completely depends on the person.

And don't forget the styer is losing ammo in the next version and i think a longer reload is tacked on too.

[Magus86]

Lowering ammo + increasing dmg in Ak = 2nd Steyr (and maybe even better).
It's a game, there's no need to use 'real' weapons.

"let's just change whatever the hell we want to whether it makes sense or not."

Nerfing the Steyr makes sense, 'cause it's overpowered atm.

If there's no need to use real weapons, then why are we using real gun names? I say do the real guns justice or come up with your own damn guns.

No, nerfing steyr doesn't make sense because it's not overpowered. HOW is it overpowered?

 And WHY THE HELL does the Steyr cause more damage than an AK in the first place? Nobody said the game has to be super realistic, but for christ's sake, at least put some THOUGHT behind how the guns behave in relationship to one another and not just slap whatever real gun names we feel like onto them.

The steyr should fire be a weaker, straighter firing, longer ranged bullet with less recoil/self bink.

The AK should fire a stronger, more arched, shorter ranged bullet and have more recoil/self bink....

And I'll say this one more time... You claim a gun is overpowered and want balance, yet at the same time you say that making two guns behave relatively the same is bad(I totally agree with you on the latter. I want a variety in my guns, but I want them to remain as true to their real life counterparts as possible)... the closer to each other they are, the fewer differences there are between them, and therefore the more balanced they are... If you absolutely MUST nerf something about the steyr, fine. just leave its damn ammo alone.

I'm sick of seeing videogames butcher the guns like this...

Actually, you know what? screw it. Do whatever the hell you want to the guns. I'll just play my mod...

[8th_account]

If there's no need to use real weapons, then why are we using real gun names? I say do the real guns justice or come up with your own damn guns.

 And WHY THE HELL does the Steyr cause more damage than an AK in the first place? Nobody said the game has to be super realistic, but for christ's sake, at least put some THOUGHT behind how the guns behave in relationship to one another and not just slap whatever real gun names we feel like onto them.

The steyr should fire be a weaker, straighter firing, longer ranged bullet with less recoil/self bink.

The AK should fire a stronger, more arched, shorter ranged bullet and have more recoil/self bink....

The weapons in Soldat don't need to be statistically accurate as long as they're roughly faithful to their expected "Hollywood behaviour:"
Ak - Reliable multi-purpose gun. Does anything good enough but doesn't shine in any category.
Steyr - A more specialized killing instrument. Fastest assault rifle to kill, but not as decent against multiple enemies.
Minimi - The best multi-foe weapon with monstrous damage, but at the expense of mobility and reliability.

And I'll say this one more time... You claim a gun is overpowered and want balance, yet at the same time you say that making two guns behave relatively the same is bad(I totally agree with you on the latter. I want a variety in my guns, but I want them to remain as true to their real life counterparts as possible)... the closer to each other they are, the fewer differences there are between them, and therefore the more balanced they are... If you absolutely MUST nerf something about the steyr, fine. just leave its damn ammo alone.

If more realism is what you seek, then play in realistic-enabled servers. They use a different weapon mod by default.

No, nerfing steyr doesn't make sense because it's not overpowered. HOW is it overpowered?

Last season's SCTFL kill stats:
http://nopaste.biz/37000

[STM1993]

Ak - Reliable multi-purpose gun. Does anything good enough but doesn't shine in any category.
Steyr - A more specialized killing instrument. Fastest assault rifle to kill, but not as decent against multiple enemies.
Minimi - The best multi-foe weapon with monstrous damage, but at the expense of mobility and reliability.

What about the MP5? It looks like an Aug with lower bullet speed and higher firing rate.

[Ziem]

What about the MP5? It looks like an Aug with lower bullet speed and higher firing rate.

...also worse accuracy and shorter reload.
Mp5 is a close-mid range auto weapon.

[Magus86]

If there's no need to use real weapons, then why are we using real gun names? I say do the real guns justice or come up with your own damn guns.

 And WHY THE HELL does the Steyr cause more damage than an AK in the first place? Nobody said the game has to be super realistic, but for christ's sake, at least put some THOUGHT behind how the guns behave in relationship to one another and not just slap whatever real gun names we feel like onto them.

The steyr should fire be a weaker, straighter firing, longer ranged bullet with less recoil/self bink.

The AK should fire a stronger, more arched, shorter ranged bullet and have more recoil/self bink....

The weapons in Soldat don't need to be statistically accurate as long as they're roughly faithful to their expected "Hollywood behaviour:"
Ak - Reliable multi-purpose gun. Does anything good enough but doesn't shine in any category.
Steyr - A more specialized killing instrument. Fastest assault rifle to kill, but not as decent against multiple enemies.
Minimi - The best multi-foe weapon with monstrous damage, but at the expense of mobility and reliability.

And I'll say this one more time... You claim a gun is overpowered and want balance, yet at the same time you say that making two guns behave relatively the same is bad(I totally agree with you on the latter. I want a variety in my guns, but I want them to remain as true to their real life counterparts as possible)... the closer to each other they are, the fewer differences there are between them, and therefore the more balanced they are... If you absolutely MUST nerf something about the steyr, fine. just leave its damn ammo alone.

If more realism is what you seek, then play in realistic-enabled servers. They use a different weapon mod by default.

No, nerfing steyr doesn't make sense because it's not overpowered. HOW is it overpowered?

Last season's SCTFL kill stats:
http://nopaste.biz/37000

Uh... if my probability and statistics class in higshcool taught me ANYTHING, it's that STATISTICS DON'T MEAN bollocks.

Maybe there were more kills with the Steyr AUG because it was used by more people? Just because it's used by more people, that doesn't mean that it's overpowered... And by the way, good job with your awesomely spread out source of data... ONE fecking server doesn't prove bollocks. Statistics never prove anything.

If you look at statistics, you'll notice that during the parts of the year people eat more ice cream, they also tend to drown more... does that mean that ice cream causes drowning?? There are things called lurking variables, and you've only used statistics from one server. Congratulations, you've proven absolutely NOTHING. 

[8th_account]

http://nopaste.biz/37000 - SCTFL sponsored server
http://nopaste.biz/37001 - AE sponsored
http://nopaste.biz/37002 - AE sponsored

There were more servers used, but I originally only uploaded the stats for these as the other ones were only used a fraction as much, and would have a relatively larger statistical error. Though I do still have those server stats if you really wish to see.

Oh, and a main ultimate goal of the balancing is that each weapon should be used and kill just as often.

[Magus86]

Okay fine then... FAMAS G1 then.. make the steyr a famas g1 so that it at least makes sense. that gun had a magazine with 25 rounds. Keep the gun properties the same for the most part. go ahead and reduce the ammo... just don't call it a steyr anymore.

Okay, but I really don't think you'll ever get everybody to use every weapon just as often as the rest for the simple reason that different weapons are for different situations. And there aren't nearly as many close quarters oppertunities as there are longer range ones... that's why not a lot of people use an MP5. MP5s just aren't as versatile. any gun will punch a nice hole in you at close range, but an SMG isn't generally good for long range. the AK and G3 have range, so they're going to be used more.

[Ziem]

Change the gfx and edit weaponnames.txt if you hate it so much.

Actually, MP5 isn't used so much because it's difficult to use on long-mid range (comapred to other autos)... and Steyr is easy and efficent on any range.

[JonWood007]

I agree, that is why I am wtf over the 25 round thing. AUGs dont have 25 rounds. Please dont butcher the weapons like this. Make it a G36 or FAMAS or something.

Why can't we just RAISE the stats of the other guns to equal the AUG? One thing I don't like about more recent versions of soldat is that the weapons keep getting nerfed. We have all kinds of safeguards on the barrett such as insane moveacc, very low rof, and startup time. We want to lower the clip capacity of the AUG. Why don't we make all of the guns stronger to equalize the playing field instead od weakening everything. AUG overpowered? Well then let's crank up that AK! I used to play a mod during 1.3.1. that made all the weapons overpowered. And guess what, there were no balance issues. You could use an AK that killed in like 3-4 hit, a minimi that could do the same but with more moveacc and bink and a bigger clip, a barrett without startup time or anything, etc. And none of the guns were overpowered. I believe that the answer to solving the issue of the different weapons is to make them more powerful. And as a consequence, this will allow soldat to be a much more fast paced game.

[Mastadi]

Okay fine then... FAMAS G1 then.. make the steyr a famas g1 so that it at least makes sense. that gun had a magazine with 25 rounds. Keep the gun properties the same for the most part. go ahead and reduce the ammo... just don't call it a steyr anymore.

Ruger uses 10+1, 9+1 or 6+1 rounds rotary magazine instead of soldats 4
Spas uses 8+1 magazine, instead of soldats 7.
FN Minimi uses 200 round belt or 30 round magazine, instead of soldat's 50

These all changes are to balance the weapons. Imagine a Minimi with 30 ammo, it would be quite useless. Or one with 200 rounds, so overpowered. It doesn't matter if the weapon stats aren't too realistic. Soldat isn't meant to be realistic, it's meant to be fun, which it is. Of course, mybe where you live there are giant flying platforms, people run around pointlessly killing each other and fly on jet boots?

I agree, that is why I am wtf over the 25 round thing. AUGs dont have 25 rounds. Please dont butcher the weapons like this. Make it a G36 or FAMAS or something.

Why can't we just RAISE the stats of the other guns to equal the AUG? One thing I don't like about more recent versions of soldat is that the weapons keep getting nerfed. We have all kinds of safeguards on the barrett such as insane moveacc, very low rof, and startup time. We want to lower the clip capacity of the AUG. Why don't we make all of the guns stronger to equalize the playing field instead od weakening everything. AUG overpowered? Well then let's crank up that AK! I used to play a mod during 1.3.1. that made all the weapons overpowered. And guess what, there were no balance issues. You could use an AK that killed in like 3-4 hit, a minimi that could do the same but with more moveacc and bink and a bigger clip, a barrett without startup time or anything, etc. And none of the guns were overpowered. I believe that the answer to solving the issue of the different weapons is to make them more powerful. And as a consequence, this will allow soldat to be a much more fast paced game.

Soldat is already VERY fast paced. And if you haven't noticed yet, other guns get upgrades.

[LtKillroy]

More like imagine a Barret with semi-auto fire. Or a .50 caliber minigun for that matter. Although I think overused =/= overpowered, this gun is a little too good. And we already had upgrade all the weapons, it was called 1.2. Steyr gets a little nerf, other guns get a little buffed, life goes on.

[mar77a]

Gun freaks better stay the hell away from the balance.

[8th_account]

Gun freaks better stay the hell away from the balance.

Indeed. Though they can gladly help Alfons and Leo with the realistic balance.

[STM1993]

I still don't get why -5 ammo instead of -damage or +reload or any other nerf.

I mean, elaborate about what it would be like if changes to other parts of the stats are made instead and ultimately why -5 ammo.

As far as I know, the only info I have is:

Steyr - A more specialized killing instrument. Fastest assault rifle to kill, but not as decent against multiple enemies.

And the fact that the current Aug can kill 2 opponents easily with 30 ammo.

[8th_account]

-2 damage and some extra reload would have been another option. But that tweak would have pushed it away from its intended role in the game. And I reasoned that there shouldn't be anymore damage nerfs if there were other doable options. The game got fucked enough through the 1.3.x WMs.