Grenades - Need to be nerfed

[darkangel]

Grenades can only do damage if thrown at the head or sometimes at the torso, its only at the feet then it would definitely kill. Throwing a nade directly at a person is throwing it at their head or torso.

Grenades can be used by EVERYONE, as long as the server activates it. So one person can kill another person just as easily ; it only depends on how you use it. Plus, the self-damage that grenades do can be quite costly if thrown too close, and using it at the wrong time can be fatal.

Throwing your grenades quickly? Well, you aren't really throwing if you throw fast, you're more of dropping the grenades instead, like a plane dropping bombs. If you want to throw further you've got to wait longer, shorter just wait a little less. The consequence of throwing too many nades or nading too quickly is to discover that you are out of grenades and you have to pick up nade kits. Depending on the map, nade kits can be difficult to find. Besides, why would people just drop their nades other than for "bombing"? It is to set up little traps to either slow down opponents or even kill them, and hopefully the grenades being unnoticed and the opponents not realizing you've just dropped a nade.

Grenades are limited. Once you finish throwing your nades, you have lost the advantage of using grenades and you're just gonna be a guy with a gun. The best thing you can do about nades is just to reduce the amount of grenades given from a grenade kit and upon spawn.

When you nade, you cannot reload. You also can't drop a nade when you're backflipping. Also, if you keep shooting with a gun and throw a nade, the aim is slightly inaccurate since the gun will be raised up a bit during the throw animation. And for the minigun's case, you can't throw a grenade when you're shooting.

The weapon testers don't care about the lag when they are balancing the weapons, so the lag issue is out of the picture.

So I'm pretty much against this.

F11.

omfg U HAVE UR FINGERS FULL OF TRUT!!!
f11 as well i luv the nades as they are

[Ziem]

Grenades aren't just helpful.

Yes! And it's making Soldat... Soldatish. This game won't be the same with different nades.

[jerich]

With my controls I cant really spam nades and shoot at the same time unless I'm using an M79 or barret.

Shoot - Left Click
Nades - Wheel Click.

The set up of the grenades is fine. If the opposing player gets a double or triple kill off of spam, it's the other team's dumbass fault that they were near each other. I'm with Gato, I'll adjust to whatever changes occur.

[a-4-year-old]

Grenades can be used by EVERYONE, as long as the server activates it. So one person can kill another person just as easily ; it only depends on how you use it. Plus, the self-damage that grenades do can be quite costly if thrown too close, and using it at the wrong time can be fatal.

So why should everyone be allowed to carpet bomb each other? Just because everyone has it doesn't mean it is immune to being unbalanced. far from it. People use their grenades as a primary. Why use a perfectly good barret shot when I can flush someone out with two grenades to the face? Or why not just get an almost instant kill with an Aug and a single grenade?

[excruciator]

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=19255.0 --- another topic about the nade

and yes, it should be nerfed, big time. Only 1 nade can be carried at anytime, now thats a great balance.

[Extacide]

Grenades can be used by EVERYONE, as long as the server activates it. So one person can kill another person just as easily ; it only depends on how you use it. Plus, the self-damage that grenades do can be quite costly if thrown too close, and using it at the wrong time can be fatal.

So why should everyone be allowed to carpet bomb each other? Just because everyone has it doesn't mean it is immune to being unbalanced. far from it. People use their grenades as a primary. Why use a perfectly good barret shot when I can flush someone out with two grenades to the face? Or why not just get an almost instant kill with an Aug and a single grenade?

Thank you a-four-year-old, you put this into a perspective I seemed to have failed to describe. Everything this man is saying. F12

@Excruciator

I actually never noticed that topic, I was wondering why Mancer wasn't the first to jump on this topic but it appears it was scrolled. I apologize for making two topics.

For the sake of argument, I'm going to quote Mancer's argument in the previous topic, considering I also failed to mention some important details that are very true, even for myself.

This has been bothering me for a while now, but I think that grenades might be overpowered. It isnt the damage they deal that I am concerned with, its the rate at which you can throw them.

Let me elaborate:

Rather than take skill to aim with a grenade, often times most players just spam them as soon as their ammo is empty. Dropping off 4 grenades in less than a second is a lot of players last defense towards someone who is rushing them. Not saying this tactic is 'illegal' or anything, but doing something like this really takes away the skill from grenades.

Why is it that most or nearly all of the kills/deaths in a game of Soldat are from grenades? My opinion is that the rate of fire for grenades should be lengthened by about a half second/a whole second. Why? Doing this actually returns skill to the grenades, people will be forced to learn how to use them correctly, rather than bash that E button as fast as you can to spam them all over the place.

But yes to continue, that is the trend of today's players. The ideal strategy by competitive players is to rush as fast as possible and use grenades as a spear head. Their primary weapon becomes their secondary and is used to finish off the player after the damage is dealt. It doesn't take a pro to lob a grenade at a player just perfectly to kill them in one hit. You can go into U13, rush a camper like a frenzied mad man and completely throw off his shot, and all he has to do is get up and throw a grenade and carry on his merry way. It really is that simple. As I stated, grenades contribute to the majority of kills in any given clan war, and a greater majority include kills that were assisted by the use of a grenade.

If you play actively in publics and not in scrimmages and clan wars, you will not see this as much. Players use these tactics in public servers, but every single player will use these strategies in a clan war. It is second nature to unload your grenades in the clan scene.

[ElGato]

The only problem I have with grenades is the random factor. It's as if lag is even a greater problem for them, and I'm almost always on the losing end.

[8th_account]

As for elgato, I only see a problem with nades when it comes to hitreg and the fact that once every 100th minute of game time you'll see someone performing a carpet bombing. And to contradict with extacide's argument, nades only stood for 20% of the kills in the latest sctfl, not "the majority."

[Extacide]

And to contradict with extacide's argument, nades only stood for 20% of the kills in the latest sctfl, not "the majority."

And to counter skoskav's statements, grenades were heavily used and a major factor in most of the SCTFL matches and playoff matches I participated in, recent and past.

[8th_account]

Yup, but most of that fact roots in them being ten times more avaliable than any given primary weapon.

[ElGato]

As for elgato, I only see a problem with nades when it comes to hitreg and the fact that once every 100th minute of game time you'll see someone performing a carpet bombing.

I think I misread that, are you agreeing that there is a hitreg issue or saying that hitreg is only an issue when a person nade spams?

[8th_account]

I agreed with joo and added another whine of my own.

[ElGato]

Ok.

[excruciator]

Yup, but most of that fact roots in them being ten times more available than any given primary weapon.

still, it something sucks, even if it rain from the sky, people wont use it. The fact that there is so much a demand for nade, that the nade spawn rate was turned to 4 or 5 just to fill the gap of demand.

----> overpowered weapon ---> demand ---> more and more availability of the weapon ----> demand (cycles)

Its not people use it more because its available, its because its very very effective, even too effective, so people wants more of it, and to fill the gap, the rate of respawn for nades are higher.

[mar77a]

You can't balance nades like that. Why? Because the number of nades is based on the server. It's like trying to balance any other gun and have it change its ammo from server to server. Thus, if you want to balance nades, do it on a case by case basis. For example, 3 is a nice number for standard 3v3 CWs. I'm not exactly sure, but it's probably cause it adds the right level of action. Imagine how slow Soldat would be without nades. Or with one. Or with two

[Extacide]

Well the trend in the weapon balance since 1.2 has basically been nerfing everything and slowing the game down, but at the same time they gave the grenades the ability to be thrown in peoples faces and exploding on contact. Grenades are considerably strong, useful, easy and plentiful, and the way they are along with the weapon balance has lead to this trend of using grenades to such excessive lengths. :/ They need to be nerfed, hopefully that will turn this weapon balance trend around and bring soldat back from a slow and preservative game to a more fast paced, slightly more reckless and obviously more fun game.

[a-4-year-old]

Well the trend in the weapon balance since 1.2 has basically been nerfing everything and slowing the game down, but at the same time they gave the grenades the ability to be thrown in peoples faces and exploding on contact. Grenades are considerably strong, useful, easy and plentiful, and the way they are along with the weapon balance has lead to this trend of using grenades to such excessive lengths. :/ They need to be nerfed, hopefully that will turn this weapon balance trend around and bring soldat back from a slow and preservative game to a more fast paced, slightly more reckless and obviously more fun game.

QFT Tag me in! tag me!

The only game were anyone has any particular strategy for grenades is in R/S, since you only get one people actually have to use their grenade wisely, here on normal people use them so much to choke up the game. try getting the flag when people are spamming the hell out of it. You can't. Try chasing the flagger when he can completely block you off (not that it would help if you could chase him down since your bullets just speed him up without doing very much damage)

Try not getting spawned to hell in ash. all because of grenades.

[STM1993]

Hmm...

Alright, I'm okay whether with or without a nerf. If there is a nerf, then I believe the damage should be lowered, but should still be able to kill one hit IF it hits the legs (can be done by making the % of damage done if hits the legs higher). I do agree that the game does get boring when everyone only knows how to throw a nade into your face and finish the battle all too fast. I prefer more intense gun fights.

Other than damage, nothing else about the grenades should be changed. As for grenades in realistic... I don't think it'd need much of a change, especially in R/S when you can't find any pickups anywhere.

On a side note, I'm a MP5 user who has a tendency to not throw nades into an enemy's face, but rather spray them down. I prefer to save the nades for trickier situations.

[8th_account]

Well the trend in the weapon balance since 1.2 has basically been nerfing everything and slowing the game down, but at the same time they gave the grenades the ability to be thrown in peoples faces and exploding on contact. Grenades are considerably strong, useful, easy and plentiful, and the way they are along with the weapon balance has lead to this trend of using grenades to such excessive lengths. :/ They need to be nerfed, hopefully that will turn this weapon balance trend around and bring soldat back from a slow and preservative game to a more fast paced, slightly more reckless and obviously more fun game.

You don't know shit what you're talking about, do you? Check weapon balances and changelogs before you bash the beta crew and devs.

[The Bone Collector]

Well he's right in the sense that its lost its Deathmatch qualities, while essentually making the game more for CTF players...