Grenades - Need to be nerfed

[Ziem]

and it's more of a support equipment type of deal at that. Leave 'em be.

So, where have you been this entire time? Grenades are being used as a PRIMARY WEAPON and the actual primary weapons are being used as SECONDARY WEAPONS. How the -F*CK-, are grenades even close to support equipment? They're 1 can short of an m79 in terms of ability to kill and ease of us, you can launch three of them simultaneously into three people's faces with split seconds in between each throw, and make three kills without using your primary or secondary weapons. Just WHERE, have you BEEN?

As long as your opponents can do the same ... it's ok.
Oh, and no, you can't launch 3 nades simultanously - only possible when you try to spam, which is rather ineffective.

[O.R.I.O.N.]

and it's more of a support equipment type of deal at that. Leave 'em be.

So, where have you been this entire time? Grenades are being used as a PRIMARY WEAPON and the actual primary weapons are being used as SECONDARY WEAPONS. How the -F*CK-, are grenades even close to support equipment? They're 1 can short of an m79 in terms of ability to kill and ease of us, you can launch three of them simultaneously into three people's faces with split seconds in between each throw, and make three kills without using your primary or secondary weapons. Just WHERE, have you BEEN?

Show me someone who can run through an entire match using just grenades, and I might actually pay attention to your b*tching.
Grenades are equipment, because just like the other pickups, they can't be used forever and need to be restocked at some point. No, you can't launch three grenades within a half second without massive lag; no, you can't nuke people with 'nades as if you had a personal M79; no, you can't rely on them for kills on their own, particularly when it comes down to the fact that so long as you're in realistic, the grenades won't completely kill the target most of the time. If you're so insistent that grenades are a primary, try arguing with the business end of my 82 from 200m.

[Extacide]

Do I have to upload demos of how effective grenades are? Are you seriously that blind? Do you even play competitively to have any idea as to what I'm talking about?

[O.R.I.O.N.]

I know well enough that a pack of three grenades doesn't win you the entire match. Your arrogance is giving me a headache.

[Extacide]

You don't play competitively, do you? I didn't think so. Publics really don't count, sorry to say. Grenades in the hands of competitive players is what I am referring to, but I don't think you can relate.

[mxyzptlk]

Newb, shut up. You obviously don't know ORION well enough. I've seen him play against "competitive" players and he ate them for breakfast.

Upload a demo of someone playing with ONLY nades. I'd like to see that.

[Espadon]

You have to be really stupid to run into nades at such a rate that it becomes as annoying as you are. Maybe you should use your brain while you're playing.

[ElGato]

Newb, shut up. You obviously don't know ORION well enough. I've seen him play against "competitive" players and he ate them for breakfast.

Upload a demo of someone playing with ONLY nades. I'd like to see that.

And you obviously have never seen Exta play. Don't even bother trying to insult him if you're going to end up looking even more retarded for the effort.

And Exta I do think you should upload demos to help get the point across, a lot of people have no idea what you're talking about.

 I still think nades are fine....

[Gortaak]

I think if you search around, there is a demo with someone killing only with grenades (freeze I think) and he raped EVERYBODY. He didnt use his primary or secondary one time in the round and came either first or second. Im too lazy to search, and it might have been on the old forums (or mebey on fracs somewhere). But it IS possible.


And I somewhat agree with extacide. I play alot of gathers and clan wars,(I still pub too) and Ive noticed that there is a difference between people that are good, and people that can only use nades. I was playing a gather yesterday, against this one dude, I cannot remember his name, but the ONLY way this guy could kill anyone, was to use a nade. If he missed his nade, or it didnt register, he could NOT kill. Which is what really bothers me. People rely on nades entirely too much. I belive extacide has a valid point.

This argument is also quite similar to the old knife debates, when people used to get pissed off because people were running around using knives as primary weapons.

Personally I would enjoy a nade nerf as I think it would even out the playing field, and make it so the people that can aim  with thier primarys better than someone that can just nade spam has the advantage, which in my opinion makes more sence.

I also dont use my nades that much. I find them too unreliable, because of all the non regs. As you can see from my stats I have close to 5 times as many primary kills as nade kills. Thats how it should be. You should use your PRIMARY weapon to kill people most of the time. Nades should be there to supplement your primary, not replace it, as most people do.



http://nagather.u13.net/playerstats.php?p=421

[excruciator]

Aye, and there really shouldn't be any success. Hell, it's the only weapon in the game with limited ammo, and it's more of a support equipment type of deal at that. Leave 'em be.

it a weapon's got unlimited ammo but is sucks it still needs a buff.
if a weapon's got limited ammo but hella powerful its still needs a nerf.

not really an arguement

[Mancer]

Having not read a single word of this thread my stance remains the same.

Nerf deez nades. You're blind if you can't admit that they still count as the weapon that kills the most in every single game. I still think the rate of fire idea is the only solution.

[immyran]

I know well enough that a pack of three grenades doesn't win you the entire match. Your arrogance is giving me a headache.

The point being made is that they have too much of an influence, on the outcome of a ctf round (not pussy public) and theres plenty of evidence to support this. (Skoskav do something).

PS: im sure Extacide would beat you in a 1 vs 1 anyways, but thats besides the point!

And also those random SF members, if you have nothing useful (contructive criticism) to add to this topic, plz    stfu  (and you know who you are).

[Extacide]

Lol, thanks for the support guys.

http://files.filefront.com/wardropdown2sdm/;10053785;/fileinfo.html

I uploaded the last CW I played (earlier today). Somewhat of an extreme example due to the map and grenade useage, but extreme examples are what get the point across.

P.S. We weren't using ventrilo and I was a little frustrated that match.

[O.R.I.O.N.]

Newb, shut up. You obviously don't know ORION well enough. I've seen him play against "competitive" players and he ate them for breakfast.

You've seen me play? Huh, you'd think I'd remember that.

My stance remains the same. I've got no problem with nades, and that's just how it is.

[8th_account]

Lol, thanks for the support guys.

http://files.filefront.com/wardropdown2sdm/;10053785;/fileinfo.html

I uploaded the last CW I played (earlier today). Somewhat of an extreme example due to the map and grenade useage, but extreme examples are what get the point across.

P.S. We weren't using ventrilo and I was a little frustrated that match.

You sure you sent the right demo? There weren't a lot of nade whoring or 1-hit kill nades for that matter.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

See, there's the thing. If there was another weapon you could choose instead of nades, then maybe there would be a point in arguing that they were overpowered when compared to the other weapon. But that's not the case. Nades are a class of their own, and so by what standard are you going to grade them?

Dunno if that's been mentioned yet, I really don't have the time to read 5 pages of people who care enough to write paragraphs about weapon balance.

[ElGato]

Lord Frunkamunch, Extacide is comparing them to guns as a whole and saying they are used too much. While this may be a valid argument most people like them the way they are and realize, as you said, they are in a class of their own.

And yes it's been mentioned, there is no way to talk about grenades without that key point.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

Another thing. No matter what weapon you choose, you still have grenades. To compare the kills of a SINGLE primary to that of grenades is ridiculous. Logically, because not everyone uses the same weapon, you could assume that with 10 primary weapons, grenades having 10 times the kills could practically be EXPECTED. The real number is not even close to this.

[excruciator]

Another thing. No matter what weapon you choose, you still have grenades. To compare the kills of a SINGLE primary to that of grenades is ridiculous. Logically, because not everyone uses the same weapon, you could assume that with 10 primary weapons, grenades having 10 times the kills could practically be EXPECTED. The real number is not even close to this.

so you cant compare nades with anything other than nade itself. So in other words, you cannot nerf them or do anything.

How the hell nades got implemented in the first place?!?!

[LtKillroy]

Another thing. No matter what weapon you choose, you still have grenades. To compare the kills of a SINGLE primary to that of grenades is ridiculous. Logically, because not everyone uses the same weapon, you could assume that with 10 primary weapons, grenades having 10 times the kills could practically be EXPECTED. The real number is not even close to this.

so you cant compare nades with anything other than nade itself. So in other words, you cannot nerf them or do anything.

How the hell nades got implemented in the first place?!?!

I think you misunderstood. He's saying that there are 10 seperate guns with 10 seperate scores because you have 10 guns to choose from. But at the same time everyone has nades. So in theory if 10 people played, grabbed different guns, and got 9 kills with their guns and one with the grenade, there would be 9 kills with every gun and 10 with grenades, so the numbers are skewed.

*edit*
Now it is possible to nerf them, although they are in a league of their own, but I don't think they should be.