Grenades - Need to be nerfed

[Extacide]

It "might" work? It WOULD work. It is this reason that grenades allow players to make explosive one shot kills with any primary on the rush, it is why grenades are literal land mines and explode when walked upon, it is why grenades falling down a vertical tunnel will push you down if you attempt to go up, it is why the most innocent grenade coming towards you midair can send you half way across the map.

There is no doubt that removing this ability, will effectively nerf grenades.

[8th_account]

Nades SHOULD explode on contact. If you wish for different, then CS is a game for you.

[excruciator]

After pondering about it, it needs a lot of twicks for it to work properly. It MIGHT be worth it

Nade would need explosion radius boost.
Nade would need to be able to bounce off people.
Nade should get 100% self dmg or more.
There should be a different argorithm for it when in the air and when on the ground(more time spent in air, when it get to the ground, takes less time to explode, and vice versa)

[a-4-year-old]

Nades should loose their one hit kill on feet.

It doesn't do much for offsetting someone directly above someone else, since if they are high enough the grenades wouldn't make it that high, and really only makes being above/to the side of someone a severe disadvantage, since it is basically an open shot to the feet. Besides; it is possible to hit someone's feet from almost every angle.

[Extacide]

Nades SHOULD explode on contact. If you wish for different, then CS is a game for you.

And it is this reason among others that grenades are over powered (have been over powered since) and need to be nerfed in some way or form that they may fit their support role.

[a-4-year-old]

Nades SHOULD explode on contact. If you wish for different, then CS is a game for you.

And it is this reason among others that grenades are over powered (have been over powered since) and need to be nerfed in some way or form that they may fit their support role.

They would be pretty useless if that happened though, so it seems that wouldn't be the best way to fix them.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

Yeah, it would make them completely useless in midair (where, as previously stated by someone, most combat takes place) and almost useless on the ground, because you could just jet over them. IF grenades need nerfing, this isn't the way to do it.

[excruciator]

Yeah, it would make them completely useless in midair (where, as previously stated by someone, most combat takes place) and almost useless on the ground, because you could just jet over them. IF grenades need nerfing, this isn't the way to do it.

who knows. I disagreed at first. Then I thought about it for a while, and played a game in my mind(lol), I think it could still work. Although it would be much easier to dodge the nades.

[Ziem]

Nerfs for nades which are possible (imho.) :
- delay (fireinterval) - for preventing nadespam
- making the damage less random, i.e. 60/75/90% (head/torso/legs) - to take off the 'luck' from nades and 1-hit-kill possibility / nerf the damage of nades.

Other ideas like taking off the ability to explode on players just simply don't fit to Soldat (maybe realistic.. but definately not in normal mode).

[Extacide]

Yeah, it would make them completely useless in midair (where, as previously stated by someone, most combat takes place) and almost useless on the ground, because you could just jet over them. IF grenades need nerfing, this isn't the way to do it.

Uh, three years ago and long before grenades were never used mid-air at all. This is the freaking point of nerfing them again, so the skies are filled with waves of BULLETS and not GRENADES.

@Ziem

Non-impacting grenades used to fit to soldat a long time ago. Then they changed it, and after a year it fitted into soldat; but who are we to say what fits into soldat? That is the sole duty of the beta testers.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

The fact that we've gone 3 years and you're the first to complain might imply that the change was a good thing.

[Demonic]

Uh, three years ago and long before grenades were never used mid-air at all. This is the freaking point of nerfing them again, so the skies are filled with waves of BULLETS and not GRENADES.

@Ziem

Non-impacting grenades used to fit to soldat a long time ago. Then they changed it, and after a year it fitted into soldat; but who are we to say what fits into soldat? That is the sole duty of the beta testers.

I remember differently. Three years ago we had the peak of the barret era, and in 1.2.1 weapons did much more damage than they do now - however, in close range combat grenades were still darn effective, because they halve the life of the enemy so much and provide an instant-kill with the help of a single shot from your gun.

On a sidenote, some people did test the 1.2.1 weapon settings in the last version, and they concluded that because of the slightly improved hit detection, it was too mad and hectic. What do you think needs more skill? Just hammering a trigger non-stop, or using something much more harder to aim to aid you, which is not as easy to reload as your primary gun?

[Gortaak]

The fact that we've gone 3 years and you're the first to complain might imply that the change was a good thing.

But he isnt the first one to complain. I know ALOT of people that hate nades this much. I for one do. I agree with extacide that soldat battles should be fought with guns and not who ever is the luckiest with nades.  There is something wrong with soldat if people cannot kill one another with out the aid of these weapons. I think that alot of the great and awesome players (and clans) wont be as great or awesome without the aid of nades. And you can kill plenty quick without nades.


Personally, I hate nades. I just know that I am useless if I do not use them. But I do NOT rely on them like 95% of soldat does, so if and (hopefully) when they get nerfed, I wont be upset of hit hard by that nerf stick at all.

I think something needs to be changed, I personally do not know what would be good to change, mebey halving the damage from nades? Removing exploding on contact would be nice, and should be given a shot, no matter if you think it will be broken (skoskav), and ESPICALLY making it harder to spam them. It is really stupid and annoying when someone rips a whole clip of thier gun at you, and did not kill you, and they are like "ZomG I HAS NU BULLTZ! WUT I DU? NADE SPAM!" and they kill you because they could spam grenades faster than you can.

If you remember, knives were nerfed for basicly this same reason, people were using the knife as a primary, just like people are doing with nades.

Nerfing nades will NOT break this game. Nades are over powered, everyone knows it, no one wants a nerf because it will drasticly change how they have to play soldat. It needs to be done regardless, imo.

Sorry for the rant, its 4 am and I need to sleep. :x

[STM1993]

I know ALOT of people that hate nades this much. I for one do. I agree with extacide that soldat battles should be fought with guns and not who ever is the luckiest with nades.  There is something wrong with soldat if people cannot kill one another with out the aid of these weapons. I think that alot of the great and awesome players (and clans) wont be as great or awesome without the aid of nades. And you can kill plenty quick without nades.

Personally, I hate nades. I just know that I am useless if I do not use them. But I do NOT rely on them like 95% of soldat does, so if and (hopefully) when they get nerfed, I wont be upset of hit hard by that nerf stick at all.

I think something needs to be changed, I personally do not know what would be good to change, mebey halving the damage from nades? Removing exploding on contact would be nice, and should be given a shot, no matter if you think it will be broken (skoskav), and ESPICALLY making it harder to spam them. It is really stupid and annoying when someone rips a whole clip of thier gun at you, and did not kill you, and they are like "ZomG I HAS NU BULLTZ! WUT I DU? NADE SPAM!" and they kill you because they could spam grenades faster than you can.

If you remember, knives were nerfed for basicly this same reason, people were using the knife as a primary, just like people are doing with nades.

Nerfing nades will NOT break this game. Nades are over powered, everyone knows it, no one wants a nerf because it will drasticly change how they have to play soldat. It needs to be done regardless, imo.

Sorry for the rant, its 4 am and I need to sleep. :x

I like this argument, and I agree with it now.

We can't possibly remove grenades from the game since it was part of the game ever since, and what is Soldat without grenades? At the same time, we can't have Soldat turning into a nade-throwing dodgeball game.

I got a few suggestions on how to nerf the nades. You can mix some of the suggestions together.

Suggestion 1
Reduce the damage by alot, while self-damage for grenade is set to 100%. When the grenade comes into contact with the ground and is not moving, if a Soldat comes into contact with or goes close to this immobile grenade, it will either explode and kill instantly or deal heavy damage without having to wait for the timer. So the grenade can act like a mine. Otherwise, it cannot kill instantly and only does minor damage.

Suggestion 2
How about make nade-throwing just like how the Knife used to be. You cannot shoot while throwing a nade. There is a fixed throwing range and fixed amount of time to throw a nade (preferably maximum amount of time taken to throw a nade at full force). You have to hold down the throw button. If you release it any earlier, you will not throw a nade. If a nade is thrown already, you will go through the rest of the throwing animation (the ending) even if you release the nade-throw button before you can shoot. This prevents nade-spamming.

Suggestion 3
Make a cooldown for throwing nades. You cannot throw a nade until after a certain time limit. This prevents nade spam.

[Pie]

STM, I disagree, implementing any of those suggestions will decrease soldat's gameplay, it will make it slower. Soldat is a FAST PACED game. If you bitch about grenades, than you obviously can't use them properly. Just because something infuriates you does NOT give you the right to tell someone to fix it. The grenade is not broken, what have we learned about fixing what isn't broken?

It's like removing the barret because it can kill from 50 million screens away, like removing the steyr because it can shoot more than one bullet really fast, like removing the m79 because it goes boom, What would soldat be then?

Just because YOU don't like something or YOU can't use it does not mean YOU can get rid of it so other people can't use it. Play by the motto, If you can't beat em, join em.

[STM1993]

STM, I disagree, implementing any of those suggestions will decrease soldat's gameplay, it will make it slower. Soldat is a FAST PACED game.

That's another problem... you got a good point.

Just because something infuriates you does NOT give you the right to tell someone to fix it. The grenade is not broken, what have we learned about fixing what isn't broken?

Just because YOU don't like something or YOU can't use it does not mean YOU can get rid of it so other people can't use it.

Lol? I am a nade-spammer or someone who throws right into the face of an enemy myself XD

And I do not demand the grenade to be changed. Really. I do agree that the grenades may be overpowered and I merely gave some suggestions on how they may be nerfed if they ever are going to be. If they are just going to be the way they are forever I'll just live with it or leave, like what happened with GunZ ; I stopped playing it because I can't accept the way the game is now.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

What about making a pin-pulling animation that would act as a startup time?

[Pie]

What about making a pin-pulling animation that would act as a startup time?

But that again decreases soldat's play speed, people will still spam, just slower.

But I see your point, it's a fine line to walk if the grenade is to be nerfed, but still usable and doesn't have repercussions on gameplay too much. The Game Devs and BTs need to find a middle ground or grey area for this to even be viable.

[8th_account]

As Pie stated, tweaks that are just there to nerf and fuck up for naders, and will result in a slower paced Soldat, does not sound very attractive. The only suggestion I've read in here that nerfs nades when used wrongly, and rewards them when used correctly, and actually speeds up the game's pace is my idea (cause I'm awsome?). Unless there emerges any better ideas I'm going to take that one to the devs.

[Gortaak]

How is it going to slow down soldat? I disagree with this statement ENTIRELY.  Hell Ill go a whole round without tossing a nade, and I can kill people JUST as fast as people who nade. I can get double and triple kills ( In gathers and clanwars) without the aid of nades. Nerfing nades will not slow down soldat, it will make people actually use thier guns to try to kill each other, and guns kill just fine.

You CAN rush without nades. You CAN kill the other player with out nades. Not trying to flame anyone here, but the people that claim that nerfing nades will slow down soldat, are the poeple that cannot make kills without the aid of these. Sure you may be great, or even amazing with them, but if you dont have them, you are probally not that great. You people cling to these likes its sacred.

Give the grenade nerf a chance, it isnt going to hurt anything.

Or do an experiment. Play a few rounds or mebey even a whole day, with nade tossing to a minimum. Use them as deterrants rather than your primary way of killing.  The game isnt that slow without nades. This is the way that I play all the time, I mainly use them as distractions and as a way for people to stay away from me.  And it works just great. Sure Ill hit people with them to kill them, but I do not rely on them to make my kills.


OR! If you nerf the nades, give a big (but equal) buff to all the primarys if you think the game will be too slow. Faster killing primarys will offset the need to whore up the nades and then the game isnt slow anymore!



REMEMBER! Nerfing nades WILL NOT break this game, it WILL NOT slow down game play. Do my experiment for yourselves. And atleast TEST out nerfing (Mebey even in the public beta) because you will see that its not that bad.  it will be just like when the knife got nerfed and everyone cried that the knife sucked, and was useless. But guess what? It is still the most used secondary, just not used for a primary anymore.

And again, sorry for the rant, I just woke up. :x