Grenades - Need to be nerfed

[8th_account]

Anyhoo... What would the support be for redoing the nade damage algorithm? Make it based on the speed of the nade as well? Then hard thrown nades would be likelier to kill in one hit, but slow nades that are just 'dropped' would do less damage. As we all know, in order to throw a nade hard, you have to spend considerably more time charging up.

But wouldn't that just make it an area-of-affect knife?

The nade's speed shouldn't be proportional to it's damage, as in the knife's case. High nade speed would only give a "bonus damage" that would be capped off at perhaps +20%. Reversed, zero nade speed could modify the damage by -20%.

[excruciator]

Anyhoo... What would the support be for redoing the nade damage algorithm? Make it based on the speed of the nade as well? Then hard thrown nades would be likelier to kill in one hit, but slow nades that are just 'dropped' would do less damage. As we all know, in order to throw a nade hard, you have to spend considerably more time charging up.

But wouldn't that just make it an area-of-affect knife?

The nade's speed shouldn't be proportional to it's damage, as in the knife's case. High nade speed would only give a "bonus damage" that would be capped off at perhaps +20%. Reversed, zero nade speed could modify the damage by -20%.

that would only give rushers more advantage! Rushers are the one that abuse the nade most often now we are give them more reason to abuse nades?

[Extacide]

Rusher or not grenades will inflict 80 to 100% of your life upon being hit whether its a very slow or an extremely fast grenade.

If you want to do the algorithm and to completely nerf grenades there would have to be a huge penalty for slow grenades otherwise it is HARDLY worth it, because as soldat is now, the majority of grenades will never do enough damage to kill someone, but will inflict just enough to make them a split second finish kill.

I still say removing the impact would be the easiest and effective solution. People will get used to it and soldat will be better for it.

[STM1993]

Removing the impact... then the grenades would feel really weird. And people would use nades less often, because the impact is one of the main reasons that people use it too.

As for penalties to slow and fast grenades, sure it reduces nade spam, but that's not gonna work since grenades have been used like land mines before and as a result "land mines" become useless? That's not very reasonable. It's gonna slow down gameplay and thats not what we want. Also, there isn't any change in damage whether the grenade is fast or slow at the moment, am I right?

Our aim is to speed up Soldat or keep it at the level it is when changing the nades. We want to encourage players to continue using grenades, but at the same time we can't have it totally changing the game into an explosive dodgeball game.

[Bjarne Betjent]

Candy?

[8th_account]

Anyhoo... What would the support be for redoing the nade damage algorithm? Make it based on the speed of the nade as well? Then hard thrown nades would be likelier to kill in one hit, but slow nades that are just 'dropped' would do less damage. As we all know, in order to throw a nade hard, you have to spend considerably more time charging up.

But wouldn't that just make it an area-of-affect knife?

The nade's speed shouldn't be proportional to it's damage, as in the knife's case. High nade speed would only give a "bonus damage" that would be capped off at perhaps +20%. Reversed, zero nade speed could modify the damage by -20%.

that would only give rushers more advantage! Rushers are the one that abuse the nade most often now we are give them more reason to abuse nades?

Actually, it would give propper rushing an advantage. It's when the rusher is near his enemy and/or has stopped that his actions start to coincide with Extacide's feelings in his original post. The damage punishment/reward system would combat all those, but instead of forcing guns instead of nades, it would only encourage that switch.

You can avoid all of the bullets in the world, but when a player drops his load of grenades on your head, you're pretty much finished.

It doesn't have to be a realistic 3-4 seconds. Something like .75 seconds, so players who run out of bullets and are faced with an enemy at full health, can't tap their grenade button to kill them both. So players can't run around and score these easy kills like they have been for the past year by simply lobbing grenades in everyone's face from two feet away.

[EDIT #2] I guess I didn't make this entirely clear. Before 1.3 (I think it was 1.3) grenades could not be thrown at an obstacle (player) and explode on contact. Now they do. I'm suggesting this be modified so it can't be done literally in someone's face or removed all together back to the way it was. It will open up fighting drastically, and force people to use GUNS and not GRENADES to make their close-medium distance kills.

Rusher or not grenades will inflict 80 to 100% of your life upon being hit whether its a very slow or an extremely fast grenade.

If you want to do the algorithm and to completely nerf grenades there would have to be a huge penalty for slow grenades otherwise it is HARDLY worth it, because as soldat is now, the majority of grenades will never do enough damage to kill someone, but will inflict just enough to make them a split second finish kill.

I still say removing the impact would be the easiest and effective solution. People will get used to it and soldat will be better for it.

80-100%? Maybe you're refering to realistic. In vanilla mode, a nade hit can do as little as 37% and probably even lower. A fast version of that nade could cause 50% more damage than a slow one hitting that spot - assuming a symmetric 20% modifier. And 20% was just a number I pulled out of my arse. It could be -40/+40, -60/+15 or any combination.

Your idea makes the nade useless. What's the point of timed nades if everyone can run and accelerate as fast as cheetas? Not to mention the jetpacks...


STM, you're making no sense. My idea does not rule out the use of nades as landmines from the game.

[STM1993]

O.o

The nade's speed shouldn't be proportional to it's damage, as in the knife's case. High nade speed would only give a "bonus damage" that would be capped off at perhaps +20%. Reversed, zero nade speed could modify the damage by -20%.

^ It was this I probably didn't understand. I thought you are saying that slow (or immobile) grenades have reduced damage while faster grenades have increased damage. Since "land mine" grenades are immobile grenades, they do less damage, and I thought it was making "land mine" grenades less useful.

Anyway, I think I understand how the new grenade should be in future. Something that makes gameplay fast, and reward the proper and good usage of nades while making improper use ineffective in battle.

Okay I need to sleep and wake up early to revise... a few more days and my exams' over.

[excruciator]

8th, so your change would make nades more or only useful when rushing, and when you actually slowing down or defending the base, nade would not be the best choice.

I like it, but I think an increase in selfdmg is needed. So rusher has to time it properly in order to take full advantage of nades.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

I mean its the easiest way to nerf it.

Then that's the server owner's problem, not something that should be made the norm.

[excruciator]

I mean its the easiest way to nerf it.

Then that's the server owner's problem, not something that should be made the norm.

wasnt expecting anything different coming from a spammer.

edit, I meant nade spammer.

[O.R.I.O.N.]

If you're going to attempt an insult, at least try to have it make some sense. And, he's right, too.

[Extacide]

@Skoskav

Well, also considering the damage of a grenade is very random, but for the most part regardless of speed a grenade will do a LOT of damage leaving you with little life. Honestly, I'm thinking sort of the opposite for your idea now. The faster the grenade is, the less damage it will do, but the slower the grenade is to the point of motionless, it will do maximum damage up to 150% or something. Landmines would be useful and rushers won't be slaughtering two to three people at a time when lobbing grenades at full speed for a free capture. :/

I STILL say removing the impact would fix this altogether though. Like I said, the impact was an addition some years ago. At the current state, everyone is some what dependent on grenades which is why it might slow down soldat...atleast until every gets used to the new grenades and they use their guns more. Soldat will pick up. Almost every nerf slows down soldat initially but people learn to get used to it. Grenades won't be completely useless, but at the same -

Date Posted: May 05, 2008, 05:00:08 pmthey won't be used and spammed like are in CWs and Gathers. I mean it seriously is ridiculous how much grenades are used now as opposed to how they used to be. They won't be COMPLETELY useless if you remove the impact. A timed grenade can still be used for the random spam effects i.e. spawn kill, situational barriers, etc... You just wont be able to walk up to a spas user with a barret and 1 hit kill him in his face with a grenade. A timed grenade however, can still be lobbed however it needs alot of distance and time. I was practicing this before they changed it: Either throwing it very far upwards or straight upwards the grenade will eventually explode in midair, almost always guarenteeing a kill. Time this right with a person and you now have a MUCH more pro-required use for the grenade.

[excruciator]

I've always wondered. Why does nade have 6 digit number dmg yet it only takes off half of the life most of the time.

[a-4-year-old]

I've always wondered. Why does nade have 6 digit number dmg yet it only takes off half of the life most of the time.

Not multiplied by speed.

[Blade]

Totally Agree, Nades need to be nerfed.

Perhaps make the user press a button to detonate the nade? Change them into Remote Grenades. This will prevent spam as you could only use 1 nade at a time and give another dimension of skill/timing to Grenades.

[Platehead]

Hmmmmm
...
^^
Whole team plants proxy mines eh
Shouldn't be feasible for such a quick game like soldat IMO,
1) They may not work - most of the time players can hop over them even if they are not trying
2) If they do -

Major:
*Plants landmine.  Proceeds to hide in nearby bushes.*

Major(1):
*Forgets he knows how to hop and steps right on the landmine*

Major:
*PRESS!*

Major(1) gets blown up

Major(1):
WTHBBQ happened to me?! HAXORZ!! GONNA REPORT YOU TO ADMIN!! MAKING EXPLOSIONS AT MAH FEET!!

Also, if you press a separate button, the nade spams can still happen.
Except.. nades will not blow up unless you press, right?
So you plant all your nades, sniff around for more, come back, until you got 15-21 nades on the spot and make a big bad boom when 3 enemies walk by. xD

Nice try, but IMHO I think it cannot  happen.

[Bjarne Betjent]

I think the nades are just fine...
ka d

[-Major-]

lol, nades the the only way to cap (for me). there's no way to kill that many without them.

and lmao at plateheads manual detonation system abuse .

but still, plain terrain would be easier to boost on with a detonation key :O.

[Gnoblar]

I find that I want myself wanting more gunfire and less nading. If you want to nade, get the M79. I think servers should have 1-2 starting grenades and very few grenade kits on the map, where they are on the map they should definitely have them in areas where the gunfire is hottest. I just would really like to see more gunfire, and less explosions, M79 excpeted.

[client]

nades need to be buffed, mine won't work atleast 80% of the time.