Minimi overpowered

[STM1993]

I am pretty sure Minimi is going to be boosted in 1.5

Look for 8th_account's post here: http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=26975.0

The Minimi is getting boosted, but by a little too much. -1 movement acc, + 4 bink, -20 reload, +1 damage

[Platehead]

Heck, even more damage?
No way!
And no fire rate decrease means it's kill efficiency is boosted yet again

[SDFilm]

^ Yet again? The Minimi as well as other autos has been getting more-or-less nerfed ever since 1.2.1. Though in this current balance, the Minimi has somewhat benifited from being made more unique and specialised by making it more of a static machinegun; which I like as that's what it's supposed to be, rather than a 'heavy Steyr Aug' that some people want it to be. Although the high movment acc makes it a very poor weapon for chasing flag carriers and in multi-directional maps with many corners and flying involved; which as I said before, is why I use the AK as a 'Minimi Carbine' for maps like Arena and Blox.

In my opinion, the Minimi should be the crazy horse of the Autos- if you treat it calm you'll get the rewards, though you could allways keep it tied down (fighting static/defencivly) if you want it to be reliable. But not as crazy as the Minigun; as that's the exiled cousen of the autos- crawling around in the airducts and occasionally being fed buckets of fish heads. It's supposed to be a cross between the AK and Minigun, not the AK and Aug.

we would have similar number of people using each gun. And thats obviously not the case.

err... wrong?

errr...yes??? when is the last time you've seen a serious MP5 running around, and when is the last time you've seen a aug running around..

Minimi is indeed overpowered, so it attracts people.

but something obviously wrong to have 2 incredibly popular auto(minimi and aug)

This is the list copied from the link:

1. [Grenade] => 23497
2. [Steyr AUG] => 23065
3. [Ak-74] => 13377
4. [Ruger 77] => 9551
5. [Combat Knife] => 9439
6. [HK MP5] => 8996
7. => 7797
8. [Spas-12] => 7580
9. [Desert Eagles] => 4008
10. [Barrett M82A1] => 3473
11. [FN Minimi] => 2319
12. [Hands] => 1724
13. [LAW] => 1670
14. [Selfkill] => 1607
15. [Chainsaw] => 373
16. [XM214 Minigun] => 82

As you can see, every weapon other than the Minigun is more popular than the Minimi. Even the knife has four times more kills.

So if you're trying to use the Minimi's level of popularity as a proof that it's unfair, then obviously you've got your facts wrong, assholes.

fluff, that is the number of kills with each weapon. It does not portray how many people uses that weapon. Sure if there are more kills the chances are that there are more people using that weapon. But see, even if we are discussing how good a weapon is with that stat(which is what essentially the whole purpose of the stat) that stat is still seriously flawed (at its own game). because it only shows what gets the very last shot. so you could technically work your ass off by massacring the guy to the point that any stray shots can kill him, I still could go WRROM!! with my minigun and still gets the kill.

So in the end in terms of stats, I could be very successful while having the least in terms of amount of dmg, DPS , dmg per clip whatever. And in other people's prospective my minigun would be very great(according to the obviously wrong stat) and your minimi ak whatever is a piece of junk.

So you're saying that the Minimi is used by alot of people yet still gets a relitivly small amount of kills? Then that would be further showing that its not overpowered.

[STM1993]

I'd agree that the Minimi has tricky balancing issues. (You can look here for reference)

The Minimi has actually a pretty good damage, 8 shots can kill. Though it has a rather low DPS, it has a very high DPC. What makes the Minimi weak is movementacc and reload time.

Reload time -20 is very reasonable (still about 80 ticks more than AK reload). I like the -1 movementacc buff, +4 bink is a good way to buff it a little, so it encourages people to hold down the shoot button a bit more than just plain tapping. In other words, it can fight in heated battles better. But the damage +1 is a bit too much ; it'd make the Minimi too close to the AK.

Ever since the AK got that fireinterval 10 and damage 103 I feel like AK's kinda lost its uniqueness in a way even though it has made the AK more powerful since it is made too much like Minimi now, oh well...

[excruciator]

^ Yet again? The Minimi as well as other autos has been getting more-or-less nerfed ever since 1.2.1. Though in this current balance, the Minimi has somewhat benifited from being made more unique and specialised by making it more of a static machinegun; which I like as that's what it's supposed to be, rather than a 'heavy Steyr Aug' that some people want it to be. Although the high movment acc makes it a very poor weapon for chasing flag carriers and in multi-directional maps with many corners and flying involved; which as I said before, is why I use the AK as a 'Minimi Carbine' for maps like Arena and Blox.

In my opinion, the Minimi should be the crazy horse of the Autos- if you treat it calm you'll get the rewards, though you could allways keep it tied down (fighting static/defencivly) if you want it to be reliable. But not as crazy as the Minigun; as that's the exiled cousen of the autos- crawling around in the airducts and occasionally being fed buckets of fish heads. It's supposed to be a cross between the AK and Minigun, not the AK and Aug.

we would have similar number of people using each gun. And thats obviously not the case.

err... wrong?

errr...yes??? when is the last time you've seen a serious MP5 running around, and when is the last time you've seen a aug running around..

Minimi is indeed overpowered, so it attracts people.

but something obviously wrong to have 2 incredibly popular auto(minimi and aug)

This is the list copied from the link:

1. [Grenade] => 23497
2. [Steyr AUG] => 23065
3. [Ak-74] => 13377
4. [Ruger 77] => 9551
5. [Combat Knife] => 9439
6. [HK MP5] => 8996
7. => 7797
8. [Spas-12] => 7580
9. [Desert Eagles] => 4008
10. [Barrett M82A1] => 3473
11. [FN Minimi] => 2319
12. [Hands] => 1724
13. [LAW] => 1670
14. [Selfkill] => 1607
15. [Chainsaw] => 373
16. [XM214 Minigun] => 82

As you can see, every weapon other than the Minigun is more popular than the Minimi. Even the knife has four times more kills.

So if you're trying to use the Minimi's level of popularity as a proof that it's unfair, then obviously you've got your facts wrong, assholes.

fluff, that is the number of kills with each weapon. It does not portray how many people uses that weapon. Sure if there are more kills the chances are that there are more people using that weapon. But see, even if we are discussing how good a weapon is with that stat(which is what essentially the whole purpose of the stat) that stat is still seriously flawed (at its own game). because it only shows what gets the very last shot. so you could technically work your ass off by massacring the guy to the point that any stray shots can kill him, I still could go WRROM!! with my minigun and still gets the kill.

So in the end in terms of stats, I could be very successful while having the least in terms of amount of dmg, DPS , dmg per clip whatever. And in other people's prospective my minigun would be very great(according to the obviously wrong stat) and your minimi ak whatever is a piece of junk.

So you're saying that the Minimi is used by alot of people yet still gets a relitivly small amount of kills? Then that would be further showing that its not overpowered.

I'm saying that the stats are not showing right. You may be right, there could be more minimier out there that simply are not showing their skills. Or maybe there are a lot of minimier out there that a lot of their kills are stolen by the nade, so there could be a lot of godlike person with minimi's. So minimi is certainly very overused, and it could be very overpowered also, but the stat simply can't show it.

[SDFilm]

You may be right, there could be more minimier out there that simply are not showing their skills.

I never said that.

Or maybe there are a lot of minimier out there that a lot of their kills are stolen by the nade, so there could be a lot of godlike person with minimi's.

You could say that about any weapon exept 1-hit-killers.

So minimi is certainly very overused, and it could be very overpowered also

Wait, just how did you come to that conclusion?

[Squakingcow]

sure, aug is much more popular than minimis, but minimi is the 2nd most popular auto. All the focus on only 2 autos, kinda unbalanced isnt it.

minimi is about as far away from being the "2nd most popular auto" as possible, infact if anything it's the least popular (excluding minigun ofc)

[O.R.I.O.N.]

Server stats don't lie. Yes, the Minimi is a good mid-range weapon, but the reload time is what turns most people away, since a good deal of auto-users prefer to go with the whole rush-kill-repeat thing. I like it since, as a sniper, I prefer to hang back somewhat, and it makes for a good backup weapon in most cases, but dem rushers prefer something a bit faster on the reload.

[excruciator]

You may be right, there could be more minimier out there that simply are not showing their skills.

I never said that.

So you're saying that the Minimi is used by alot of people yet still gets a relitivly small amount of kills? Then that would be further showing that its not overpowered.

I see that as a confirmation of what I said. Therefore you agreed to my opinion. Or you agreed what whatever you believe I said. either way, you said it.

Or maybe there are a lot of minimier out there that a lot of their kills are stolen by the nade, so there could be a lot of godlike person with minimi's.

You could say that about any weapon exept 1-hit-killers.

Thats why I said that we shouldn't take the stats as the bible. (at least, those stats)

So minimi is certainly very overused, and it could be very overpowered also

Wait, just how did you come to that conclusion?

I think clawbug has a DPS sheet posted somewhere. Ask him. If I remembered right, minimi's got higher DPS than aug.

[Fluffy]

I'm saying that the stats are not showing right. You may be right, there could be more minimier out there that simply are not showing their skills. Or maybe there are a lot of minimier out there that a lot of their kills are stolen by the nade, so there could be a lot of godlike person with minimi's. So minimi is certainly very overused, and it could be very overpowered also, but the stat simply can't show it.

Are you seriously saying that the massive difference of over ten thousand kills between the AK and the Minimi is just a matter of marginal error? Caused by nades perhaps, eh?

Popularity is directly proportional to to its owerpowerdness, you actually said that yourself. Even if we're talking about huge marginal errors caused by nades and kill steals, say, about one hundred percent, that would raise the total kill score of the Minimi to under five thousand. Even then the Minimi would be the most unpopular auto.

Although you probably haven't thought that marginal errors usually work both ways - a lot of Minimi kills are made at already wounded opponents weakened by other players.

And oh yes, it's not like the Minimi is the only weapon with an untrue kill score. If you haven't noticed, everybody can throw nades.

[SDFilm]

You may be right, there could be more minimier out there that simply are not showing their skills.

I never said that.

So you're saying that the Minimi is used by alot of people yet still gets a relitivly small amount of kills? Then that would be further showing that its not overpowered.

I see that as a confirmation of what I said. Therefore you agreed to my opinion. Or you agreed what whatever you believe I said. either way, you said it.

That was me questioning if that is what you meant. I never agreed with it. And those two sentences implied different things anyway. The first is saying that the Minimi doesn't get much kills despite being, allegedly, used by alot of people; while the second sentence is implying that there are alot of Minimiers but they arent showing their skills, as if this is simply a matter of the player's skill instead of weapon balance. That's entirely your opinion, not mine.

Or maybe there are a lot of minimier out there that a lot of their kills are stolen by the nade, so there could be a lot of godlike person with minimi's.

You could say that about any weapon exept 1-hit-killers.

Thats why I said that we shouldn't take the stats as the bible. (at least, those stats)

But since the Minimi is no more affected by nade usage as the rest of the weapons, why even mention it in this thread? We already know too well how much you hate nades; there's no reason to bring it over here.

So minimi is certainly very overused, and it could be very overpowered also

Wait, just how did you come to that conclusion?

I think clawbug has a DPS sheet posted somewhere. Ask him. If I remembered right, minimi's got higher DPS than aug.

Even if that's true, how does that mean the "minimi is certainly very overused, and it could be very overpowered"? DPS doesn't directly translate into popularity. And anyway, I thought you said that because the Minimi just might have a huge amount of its kills "stolen" by nades, which somehow goes to say that the Minimi is massively popular.

[excruciator]

I'm not sure, but I think that the stat is outdated. I think the kills log also recorded the 1.4.1 balance, maybe the 1.3.1 balance also. This could potencially make the stat useless. But I need confirmation to be sure.

But I am very sure that nade created a lot of error. Nade is reknowned to steal kills or aid kills. I hope that sna could make a "kill assist" script to record the weapon that assisted the kills. You'll be surprized how many kills nades are getting.

I realized that stealing can work both ways, thats why I said the stats are inaccurate and misleading. But do take notice that autos aren't exactly the best weapon to steal kills because of the low DPS(shot). So its not a big problem, at least not as big as nades.

[SDFilm]

Fluffy made some good points.

So what if the Minimi's score is loward my nade usage? Even if you translated all nade-assists used by Minimiers, the added score would need to increase the Minimi's score by 1000% to get to where the Aug is- and that's not even counting the nade-assists the Aug uses get.

As said before, leave your nade-whining for the nade thread and public servers.

[Fluffy]

I'm not sure, but I think that the stat is outdated. I think the kills log also recorded the 1.4.1 balance, maybe the 1.3.1 balance also. This could potencially make the stat useless. But I need confirmation to be sure.

But I am very sure that nade created a lot of error. Nade is reknowned to steal kills or aid kills. I hope that sna could make a "kill assist" script to record the weapon that assisted the kills. You'll be surprized how many kills nades are getting.

I realized that stealing can work both ways, thats why I said the stats are inaccurate and misleading. But do take notice that autos aren't exactly the best weapon to steal kills because of the low DPS(shot). So its not a big problem, at least not as big as nades.

Now you're just repeating yourself. I countered your points and you fail to make new ones.

[a-4-year-old]

Statistics are meaningless.

[Squakingcow]

I'm not sure, but I think that the stat is outdated. I think the kills log also recorded the 1.4.1 balance, maybe the 1.3.1 balance also. This could potencially make the stat useless. But I need confirmation to be sure.

those stats were reset around about 2 weeks back, and the pattern you see there has been going for a while (ie. minimi being the least popular auto).

[STM1993]

So minimi is certainly very overused, and it could be very overpowered also

Wait, just how did you come to that conclusion?

I think clawbug has a DPS sheet posted somewhere. Ask him. If I remembered right, minimi's got higher DPS than aug.

Even if that's true, how does that mean the "minimi is certainly very overused, and it could be very overpowered"? DPS doesn't directly translate into popularity. And anyway, I thought you said that because the Minimi just might have a huge amount of its kills "stolen" by nades, which somehow goes to say that the Minimi is massively popular.

Agreed. If DPS directly translates into popularity, then the Minigun and MP5 are gonna be the most popular weapons, followed by Aug, Minimi, AK. But is that the case? No, in fact the popularity is something like Aug, AK, MP5 or Minimi, Minigun. Where are all the other factors like accuracy?

And what server are those stats from?

[SDFilm]

And what server are those stats from?

Look back a page, it's SCTFL.

[excruciator]

I'm not sure, but I think that the stat is outdated. I think the kills log also recorded the 1.4.1 balance, maybe the 1.3.1 balance also. This could potencially make the stat useless. But I need confirmation to be sure.

But I am very sure that nade created a lot of error. Nade is reknowned to steal kills or aid kills. I hope that sna could make a "kill assist" script to record the weapon that assisted the kills. You'll be surprized how many kills nades are getting.

I realized that stealing can work both ways, thats why I said the stats are inaccurate and misleading. But do take notice that autos aren't exactly the best weapon to steal kills because of the low DPS(shot). So its not a big problem, at least not as big as nades.

Now you're just repeating yourself. I countered your points and you fail to make new ones.

fail for not getting the point of my points. double fail for making others(me) explain it to you.

Minimi falls into the category of guns that are very high in potencial but its just hard to use.
right now the boost its getting is making it replace ak. Hell now most weapon is better than ak. there are only few nowdays that are proefficient at it.

[STM1993]

Minimi falls into the category of guns that are very high in potencial but its just hard to use.
right now the boost its getting is making it replace ak. Hell now most weapon is better than ak. there are only few nowdays that are proefficient at it.

Okay before I log off and go to school...

Ya, the Minimi is quite difficult to use but quite okay. The boost is fine except for the +1 damage I'd say, and I agree that most other guns are actually better than the AK. Furthermore I think the AK lost its uniqueness in a way (too similar to Minimi), meh, I rather AK with 11 fireinterval and around 114 or 115 damage, even though the current AK is obviously more powerful.