Who agrees with this statement?

[JonWood007]

"It's not the gun, it's the gunner"

What I mean here is that the weapon balance is not really as out of wack as it may appear. I've been playing on and off for a while and I generally use most guns (not big on minigun, knife or, chainsaw though). The balance is not that out of wack. I agree, some modifications are needed. Maybe slight boosts/nerfs here or there. However, the overall balance of the game is really good.

The problem is some guns are easier to use than others. Like the AUG vs the other autos. I keep hearing about it being overpowered. While to a small extent that is the case, I actually seem to work best with the ak/minimi. Sometimes I run into people who can steamroll AUGers with guns like the AK74. And some guns require a lot more skill to use than others. Like the M79 vs the barrett. M79 requires little skill compared to the barrett.

What I am saying is it isnt necessary the gun itself which is overpowered...it's peoples' skills with the guns.

[excruciator]

I hate the fact that people switch to AUG or deg whenever I kill them too much. Its just sad...

[a-4-year-old]

its the map.

[Veritas]

Sometimes I run into people who can steamroll AUGers with guns like the AK74.

That means whoever is using the AUG sucks terribly.

[excruciator]

Sometimes I run into people who can steamroll AUGers with guns like the AK74.

That means whoever is using the AUG sucks terribly.

or the AK is more skilled.

[tehsnipah]

I totally agree with that statement. Also, AK74 and AUG are really identical gun. Except that those gun have different advantages and flaws. It's definitely up to players.

Seriously, I think I've seen too much whining in "Weapon Balance Discussion" threads.

[JonWood007]

I hate the fact that people switch to AUG or deg whenever I kill them too much. Its just sad...

I switch through guns until I find one that works. and believe me, it is not always deagles or AUG. Sometimes AK works, sometimes spas works, sometimes mp5 works. Sometimes I find that the aug stinks. Like when youre fighting multiple people near full health. Turns out I put a bunch of rounds in all of them, no one dies.

its the map.

True. Terrain dominates the weaponry to an extent.

or the AK is more skilled.

Which is why I say it is the gunner.

It is really the skill. I agree some stuff in SF needs to be tweaked, but the balance is pretty solid. Ive seen all weapons dominate (except minigun), ive seen them all fail miserably. Sometimes the AUG's damage just doesnt cut it.

[Lapis Lazuli]

Also, AK74 and AUG are really identical gun. Except that those gun have different advantages and flaws.

I lol'd.

The weapon has nothing to do with it if you aren't skilled to begin with.

[8th_account]

I consider the statement very unrelated to this part of the forum. Perhaps General Discussions?

[JonWood007]

Why isn't this relevant? It regards weapon balance in a sense. What I am saying is that the weapons are really more balanced than many think. The players with varying skills using the weapons determine much of the "imbalance."

For example, AUG and M79 are rather easy to use. A lot of people use them and get good with them. Some people get so skilled that the guns are considered "overpowered." But then when they switch to other weapons they do not have as much experience with, they stink with them. Therefore, the mindset develops that weapons who people get skilled with are "overpowered" compared with guns that require higher levels of skill (that few people acquire). For example, not many people get good with ak and minimi but do so with aug. However, I find the ak and minimi roughly comparable with aug. Sometimes I cant kill with the aug, switch to minimi, and pwn.

I'm not denying that the balance needs to be tweaked here or there, but what I am arguing here is that the balance is not really as bad as people think. It is really the gunner who is overpowered, the gun itself is just about as good as the other ones.

[Ziem]

I don't agree...
When a weapon has a higher potential and is easier to use (deagles vs ruger... rotfl.), it's clear that it's overpowered.

A lot of people use them (...)

<ctrlc ctrlv> ... People aren't picking the worst weapons. They pick something which is easy and efficent.

I hate the fact that people switch to AUG or deg whenever I kill them too much. Its just sad...

Hah! Show me who switches to deagles to get a easy kill. (hint : DE's are one of the least used weapons.)

[STM1993]

Let's just assume that everyone has the same skill. Then, we have everyone using different weapons and put them in a map. There's bound to be the strongest player, because he has the advantage of being involved in situations that occur very often which so happens to benefit the type of gun he uses, and due to the map played. So I disagree: There are other factors like map and situations.

Secondly, this is Weapons Balance Discussion. We're discussing the balance of weapons according to their potential, not the balance of the weapon according to the level of the player. I think we're supposed to make every single gun have the same overall potential, not to make one gun less/more powerful than another just because of the general player level. If I'm not wrong, that's why 8th said that was irrelevant, right?

But of course, we can't have everyone use the Aug/M79 just because its so easy to use, or rather, both easy and efficient. Then what's the point of the other weapons? Of course something must be wrong. Those weapons are the ones that must be tweaked, so people can realize that there are other weapons all along, and now have everyone use different weapons at an equal level.

Balancing - It's a never-ending process to tweak over-used (overpowered) guns so that the other guns have an equal chance of being used and all of them having equal potential.

[-Major-]

I hate the fact that people switch to AUG or deg whenever I kill them too much. Its just sad...

Hah! Show me who switches to deagles to get a easy kill. (hint : DE's are one of the least used weapons.)

hmm I usually switch to Deagles when I'm doing bad...

[STM1993]

hmm I usually switch to Deagles when I'm doing bad...

And do you use the DEs well?

[excruciator]

I hate the fact that people switch to AUG or deg whenever I kill them too much. Its just sad...

Hah! Show me who switches to deagles to get a easy kill. (hint : DE's are one of the least used weapons.)

douchebags that think deg will own in their hands too..

Hah, I actually do use DE when i'm fighting ruger, sounds desparate and stupid, but it actually works. Hopefully this shows all of y'all that it is the gunner, not the gun.

[-Major-]

hmm I usually switch to Deagles when I'm doing bad...

And do you use the DEs well?

dunno about that. but I main them.

[JonWood007]

Let's just assume that everyone has the same skill. Then, we have everyone using different weapons and put them in a map. There's bound to be the strongest player, because he has the advantage of being involved in situations that occur very often which so happens to benefit the type of gun he uses, and due to the map played. So I disagree: There are other factors like map and situations.

And I would agree with that too. Barrett doesnt work too well close quarters and SPas doesnt work to well in wide open maps.

Secondly, this is Weapons Balance Discussion. We're discussing the balance of weapons according to their potential, not the balance of the weapon according to the level of the player. I think we're supposed to make every single gun have the same overall potential, not to make one gun less/more powerful than another just because of the general player level. If I'm not wrong, that's why 8th said that was irrelevant, right?

And What I am arguing is that all weapons have a relatively similar potential. Its just that many people dont use the other guns enough to unlock potential. So I agree partially, some guns over overused and others underused, but a lot of underused guns (minimi for instance) have a lot of potential that people dont take advantage of. Once you get used to them, they are also easy and efficient.

But of course, we can't have everyone use the Aug/M79 just because its so easy to use, or rather, both easy and efficient. Then what's the point of the other weapons? Of course something must be wrong. Those weapons are the ones that must be tweaked, so people can realize that there are other weapons all along, and now have everyone use different weapons at an equal level.

And I also agree weapons should be tweaked a little. Personally, I find some weapons slightly overpowered and some slightly underpowered (with the minigun being majorly underpowered). But the balance as it is isnt that bad. Maybe its because Im not in the clan scene, but in many of the public servers, I find most guns useful. I think that some people are switching potential with skill, which is what Im saying. I'm aware of some issues with the guns. I'm not saying there arent issues. But I think skill and the map (as others have said) determine largely what is useful.

[Ziem]

Hah, I actually do use DE when i'm fighting ruger, sounds desparate and stupid, but it actually works. Hopefully this shows all of y'all that it is the gunner, not the gun.

...
If you play with people who are experienced enough to land 80%+ of their shots, you'll notice that some weapons are a bit unbalanced.
If you play pubs... (blah, blah...)

[excruciator]

Hah, I actually do use DE when i'm fighting ruger, sounds desparate and stupid, but it actually works. Hopefully this shows all of y'all that it is the gunner, not the gun.

...
If you play with people who are experienced enough to land 80%+ of their shots, you'll notice that some weapons are a bit unbalanced.
If you play pubs... (blah, blah...)

I 1 on 1 rugers with deg buddy, with some worm and a good aim, ruger are actually beatable

of course, if you land 100% of the shots, you will see a big difference. fortunately, nobody can maintain a 100% accuracy or even 80%

[Ziem]

I've never said that "you can't beat a ruger with de's" - I've said that it's ruger is easier and more powerful.

And 80% acc is archiveable for everyone (imho).