On the juvenile nature of the Harry Potter series

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Okay, so I've got it into my head to write a story of sorts.  The plot isn't relevant, but the protagonists are around my age (I'm 19).  At first I thought, "Hey, this is going to be great! This story is going to be so epic!" Then I realized that people might not take the story seriously, since the main characters were basically kids.  This insight was because I consider the Harry Potter series with its juvenile cast to be children's books, and while they're successful, it's more of a pop culture success than a legendary success.

Compare Harry Potter to the Lord of the Rings.  They're both fantasy stories, they both have magic, they both have to fight this big evil guy, etc.  Yet the latter is considered a literary masterpiece, while the former is relegated to the children's section in bookstores.

Why is this? Is it the plot? The characters? The writing style? The setting? What makes the two stories so different, and how can I avoid writing a story like Harry Potter?

[Iron Man]

<JonJonB> Purely in the interests of science, I have replaced the word "wand" with "wang" in the first Harry Potter Book
<JonJonB> Let's see the results...

<JonJonB> "Why aren't you supposed to do magic?" asked Harry.
<JonJonB> "Oh, well -- I was at Hogwarts meself but I -- er -- got expelled, ter tell yeh the truth. In me third year. They snapped me wang in half an' everything

<JonJonB> A magic wang... this was what Harry had been really looking forward to.

<JonJonB> "Yes, yes. I thought I'd be seeing you soon. Harry Potter." It wasn't a question. "You have your mother's eyes. It seems only yesterday she was in here herself, buying her first wang. Ten and a quarter inches long, swishy, made of willow. Nice wang for charm work."
<JonJonB> "Your father, on the other hand, favored a mahogany wang. Eleven inches. "

<JonJonB> Harry took the wang. He felt a sudden warmth in his fingers. He raised the wang above his head, brought it swishing down through the dusty air and a stream of red and gold sparks shot from the end like a firework, throwing dancing spots of light on to the walls

<JonJonB> "Oh, move over," Hermione snarled. She grabbed Harry's wang, tapped the lock, and whispered, 'Alohomora!"

<JonJonB> The troll couldn't feel Harry hanging there, but even a troll will notice if you stick a long bit of wood up its nose, and Harry's wang had still been in his hand when he'd jumped - it had gone straight up one of the troll's nostrils.

<JonJonB> He bent down and pulled his wang out of the troll's nose. It was covered in what looked like lumpy gray glue.

<JonJonB> He ran onto the field as you fell, waved his wang, and you sort of slowed down before you hit the ground. Then he whirled his wang at the dementors. Shot silver stuff at them.

<JonJonB> Ok
<JonJonB> I have found, definitive proof
<JonJonB> that J.K Rowling is a dirty DIRTY woman, making a fool of us all
<JonJonB> "Yes," Harry said, gripping his wang very tightly, and moving into the middle of the deserted classroom. He tried to keep his mind on flying, but something else kept intruding.... Any second now, he might hear his mother again... but he shouldn't think that, or he would hear her again, and he didn't want to... or did he?
<melusine > O_______O
<JonJonB> Something silver-white, something enormous, erupted from the end of his wang

<JonJonJonB> Then, with a sigh, he raised his wang and prodded the silvery substance with its tip.

<JonJonJonB> 'Get - off - me!' Harry gasped. For a few seconds they struggled, Harry pulling at his uncles sausage-like fingers with his left hand, his right maintaining a firm grip on his raised wang.



thats the answer your looking for

[Iq Unlimited]

(skipping over the overused irc quote from bash.org)

I consider Harry Potter a literary masterpiece right alongside Lord of the Rings.

The reason Harry Potter is put into the kids section of the storybooks is because J.K. Rowling wrote it as a kids story, or rather as a story that kids could relate to as they grew up. I started reading Harry Potter when i was 12 and read all the stories all the way up to the end, last year.

At the fact that you might write a story like Harry Potter: if you go by the fact that you're writing for other people, then you aren't much of a writer at all in my eyes, just looking to make money off of your book, unless you're trying to get a certain message across with it, then that changes some things, but I don't really think you are. Don't worry what anyone thinks about it, if it's good it'll sell, you just have to make it good in your eyes and everyone else will love it.

[Iron Man]

* Iron Man notices the irony between your first 9 words and your signature.

[Iq Unlimited]

Good, I was aiming for that irony, it's why I changed my sig.

[Blue-ninja]

It's not hard to put an original, if not completely original spin on most of the facts about fantasy creatures and magic. The personalities put into each and some of the fantasy creatures included in the books is something else.

As the series progress to near the end of the last book, it's pretty dark and pretty much into the "for teens" area. (;

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

At the fact that you might write a story like Harry Potter: if you go by the fact that you're writing for other people, then you aren't much of a writer at all in my eyes, just looking to make money off of your book, unless you're trying to get a certain message across with it, then that changes some things, but I don't really think you are. Don't worry what anyone thinks about it, if it's good it'll sell, you just have to make it good in your eyes and everyone else will love it.

A couple of important things that my post apparently didn't make clear:
1) I'm writing a story, not a book.  Book implies sales and publishing; story implies that, well it's just some Word document that I typed in.
2) I'm clearly trying to get a certain message across for two reasons: One, I'm writing it.  If I already know the message, what's the point in writing unless I intended to share? And Two, I'm not doing this for a profit, as I indicated above.  Therefore, since it's being written for others (point one), and it's not being written for profit (item 1), the only conclusion is that I'm trying to share how I feel or send a message.

What's strange to me is that you're grouping "writing for other people" with "trying to make a profit".  If I were trying to make a profit, then it seems like I would be writing for myself.  At any rate, since I AM writing for other people, and I AM trying to send a deeper message, I would like it if my work was taken seriously by people who would understand the point I was trying to make.

Of course, knowing all that doesn't change the facts: That somehow, LotR and Harry Potter are different, and I want my story to be received like the former.  So how are they different?

[Captain Ben]

lord of the rings is the biggest piece of shit i've ever read

OH YEAH LITERARY MASTERPIECE LET'S EXPLAIN EVERY SINGLE LITTLE DETAIL AND PUT IN SHIT POEMS THAT HAVE NO POINT
WOW HOBBITS HAVE LIKE FORTY BREAKFASTS EVERY MORNING I DON'T FUCKING WANT TO KNOW WHAT FAGGY BAGGY BILBO BAGGINS ATE FOR FUCKING BREAKFAST HOLY SHIT

[Demonic]

I don't consider Lotr a literaly masterpiece.

Seriously, for a lot of people I know literature ends right there, which is pretty sad.

That, and the hungarian translation is actually much better than Tolkien's original work: for some reason, it's just phrased better and you don't fall asleep even at the long describing 'filler' parts.

And don't worry about using juveniles as your protagonists and antagonists. There's more out there than harry potter with kids: a clockwork orange, lord of the flies, battle royale, just to name a few.

[iDante]

Setting aside battle royale (which is an awesome book, havent seen the movie), the other books are short. My deal with Harry Potter is that its... really long. For every single book I've read about halfway through them and... looked up what happens in the end. To me they're just boring.

[Blue-ninja]

Should I mention the short stories that was written by Flannery O'Connor?

[Iq Unlimited]

At the fact that you might write a story like Harry Potter: if you go by the fact that you're writing for other people, then you aren't much of a writer at all in my eyes, just looking to make money off of your book, unless you're trying to get a certain message across with it, then that changes some things, but I don't really think you are. Don't worry what anyone thinks about it, if it's good it'll sell, you just have to make it good in your eyes and everyone else will love it.

A couple of important things that my post apparently didn't make clear:
1) I'm writing a story, not a book. Book implies sales and publishing; story implies that, well it's just some Word document that I typed in.
2) I'm clearly trying to get a certain message across for two reasons: One, I'm writing it. If I already know the message, what's the point in writing unless I intended to share? And Two, I'm not doing this for a profit, as I indicated above. Therefore, since it's being written for others (point one), and it's not being written for profit (item 1), the only conclusion is that I'm trying to share how I feel or send a message.

What's strange to me is that you're grouping "writing for other people" with "trying to make a profit". If I were trying to make a profit, then it seems like I would be writing for myself. At any rate, since I AM writing for other people, and I AM trying to send a deeper message, I would like it if my work was taken seriously by people who would understand the point I was trying to make.

That invalidates my whole argument, thank you, I just got owned. I fail to understand some things and typed that out in about 25 seconds.

Of course, knowing all that doesn't change the facts: That somehow, LotR and Harry Potter are different, and I want my story to be received like the former. So how are they different?

The only difference is how the author wrote them and how the public reacted to them.

[Gnoblar]

Well Harry potter was always aimed at the littlies, but when the first one hit a massive success, it seemed that it was to hit the whole market. With LOTR, personally I hate the books, so I won't voice my literacy thoughts on that.

[Lapis Lazuli]

(skipping over the overused irc quote from bash.org)

I consider Harry Potter a literary masterpiece right alongside Lord of the Rings.

The reason Harry Potter is put into the kids section of the storybooks is because J.K. Rowling wrote it as a kids story, or rather as a story that kids could relate to as they grew up. I started reading Harry Potter when i was 12 and read all the stories all the way up to the end, last year.

At the fact that you might write a story like Harry Potter: if you go by the fact that you're writing for other people, then you aren't much of a writer at all in my eyes, just looking to make money off of your book, unless you're trying to get a certain message across with it, then that changes some things, but I don't really think you are. Don't worry what anyone thinks about it, if it's good it'll sell, you just have to make it good in your eyes and everyone else will love it.

Uh, JK Rowling was a poor ass bitch when she wrote her books, on napkins from cafes where she'd spend entire days because she was more or less homeless

So you can't say she wasn't in it for the money

[a-4-year-old]

you have to write a story about coming of age if anyone is going to take your (young) characters seriously.

Also most adults think magic spells are childish and stupid.

[Hair|Trigger]

I'm sick of reading all this lounge bs.  :/

Harry potter is more of a model than a character..  How girls like him and stuff. Whilst lord of the rings is a real story, and is socially accepted generally in both genders, from what I noticed at least. 

[Demonic]

I'm sick of reading all this lounge bs.  :/

Harry potter is more of a model than a character..  How girls like him and stuff. Whilst lord of the rings is a real story, and is socially accepted generally in both genders, from what I noticed at least. 

Yeah. Legolas and Aragorn aren't hyped. AT ALL.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Harry potter is more of a model than a character..  How girls like him and stuff. Whilst lord of the rings is a real story, and is socially accepted generally in both genders, from what I noticed at least. 

Yeah. Legolas and Aragorn aren't hyped. AT ALL.

Well, they weren't before the movies.

you have to write a story about coming of age if anyone is going to take your (young) characters seriously.

Also most adults think magic spells are childish and stupid.

Check and check.  Guess my story is safe then. =)

[Demonic]

The HP movie series was started before the novell-story was finished, so you can't really compare the two.

Corporate aspects aside, LOTR might be the cream of the crop when it comes to fantasy, but in good literature, it's sadly overrated. And Harry Potter comes in the ring like I would against Mike Tyson. Drops dead at the blink of an eye.

[excruciator]

* Iron Man notices the irony between your first 9 words and your signature.

what was it exactly...