Get rid of the m79

[$niper]

Soldat isn't fun anymore, every server i log onto its always the same old $hit of people running around with the noob cannon blasting at close range or spawn killing with it.
M79 takes away a fun game of skillfull shooting and replaces it with a one button explosion fest that you can't escape from and where every noob can be a pro.

It's annoying, get rid of it.
That is all.

[Iq Unlimited]

Welcome to soldat. Noobs tend to use M79, quit whining about it and learn to beat it.

[Scarab]

Why don't you use it then?

If you think people like you can be pro.

[Ziem]

M79 takes away a fun game of skillfull shooting (in my opinion) and replaces it with a one button explosion fest that I can't  escape from and I can't keep enough distance, so I'm getting owned.

Since I got poont, I have to whine about it.
That is all.

[Decaying Soldat]

Yes, it's annoying, but no, no weapons are going to be removed. I think that's it.

[STM1993]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to be pretty harsh here.

I strongly believe that the M79 is the BEST WEAPON IN SOLDAT EVER!

...to annoy you, screw up your gaming, make you look like an idiot (when you flame about it), get kicked or leave the room. And maybe eventually, whine to the whole world, telling everyone how hard you got pwnt. Notice that when people who are in a pretty bad mood, they don't play as well, and most people dislike the M79, which can pretty much make someone go to extremes on a bad day.

Anyway, back to serious business:

M79 -
1. Short-ranged
2. Slow moving bullet
3. 3 second reload
4. 1-shot 1 kill explosive weapon
5. This is an easy weapon to use for all players.

Counters against M79ers -
1. Stay away, use long range
2. Predict and learn to dodge. They miss they die.
3. Kill within 3 seconds when reloading
4. Use a M79 yourself. I mean it.
5. Prevent the M79er from knowing what you'll do next!

You fail because:
1. Soldat = fun game of skillful shooting? Where are the nades and flags and other elements?
2. You have failed to learn how to fight back against the M79
3. Just because you are annoyed and don't know how to fight back against the M79, you want to super nerf or remove the M79.
4. If you are so annoyed by the M79, why not leave the game room or even quit playing?
5. No new weapons and no current weapons to be removed for Soldat.

[[ Alright, I'm officially done editting this post, no more editting here! ]]

[8th_account]

I, for one, agree with $sniper to an extent. When you know that an enemy is using M79, you have to completely change your play style in order to effectively counter it. This is a much more drastic change than when you prepare to face, for example, a steyr or ruger. In order to effectively counter the M79 you need to stop rushing, which is the point of the game, and what makes it so fun.

And the M79 is not short ranged, as STM suggests. The muzzle velocity can exceed 150 speed units when the player is moving at high speeds, which is noticably faster and will go further than spas' pellets at stand-still.

[STM1993]

And the M79 is not short ranged, as STM suggests. The muzzle velocity can exceed 150 speed units when the player is moving at high speeds, which is noticably faster and will go further than spas' pellets at stand-still.

Are you saying that the M79's projectile actually moves faster if the user is moving faster himself or...?

[$niper]

When some of you say "well you're just no good at dodging m79 or dont know how to evade it"
Goto any public CTF or DM server and see how good you dodge the multiple m79 attacks that constantly fly at you from every angle from 90% of the players in the server.
The second you see someone, BOOM you explode without even being able to get out the way and after a while it just becomes annoying because you know the people that keep killing you dont even earn the kill or work for it rather they just stand there, fire and anyone in front of them instantly blows up.

Trust me i'm great at dodging people but most of the maps on the public servers are pretty small making it virtually impossible to avoid m79 noobs and thats just 1 let alone multiple m79 noobs flying at you.
It takes all the skill/tactical evasions out of the fights and thats where the funs at.

If theres no chance of getting rid of it, at least put a delay on it or lower the damage so people have a chance to react and avoid it.

[STM1993]

Okay, I can see a better picture now, sorry bad mood today.


Well, it is understandable. I'm a public-only player with a Ruger and I have been to servers where everyone except me uses a M79. The second I enter, I get spawnkilled instantly by a single shot or even a whole raid of M79s and nades flying around. I find difficulty dodging M79s already because I haven't exactly learned how to fight a M79 yet, but with so many shooting at you it's almost impossible, I agree.

I know, I too find it annoying. You see, I view M79s as rather easy to use guns. Any player can hold it and instantly rise to a decent level, while other guns require so much practice, though it is more difficult for a M79er to become better with his M79 because ever since the beginning he has been basically using all the skills of the M79 already. They are explosive one-hitters with a reload of 3 seconds and are really a pain in large groups compared to a handful of M79ers which is still pretty simple to take out.

Every gun has its strengths and weaknesses, and in Soldat it is mainly about adapting. I actually do not mind the M79 itself at all given its strengths and weaknesses, but the problem is the people. Most of the M79ers I see just run and boom, I don't see any real skill but being gay instead. And the thing is, so many of such M79ers are coming around. People hate to keep getting killed like this and everyone will eventually switch to the M79 just to counter the M79 itself. I don't want Soldat to become a game where it's all about one particular gun (counterstrike - AK and M4).

I hate to say this, but there are also some pretty good M79ers who aren't those cheap ones I have described. I wouldn't change the M79 too much but rather, I'd prefer to encourage players to use the other weapons rather than giving it too big a nerf. Also, it is better to make the balancing more right by looking at the gathers and cws, since those consist of the better players and you can see the weapon differences better. Pubs don't give the better view since the general skill level is lower there.

Personally I'm fine with any weapon balance of the M79, as long as there is less idiocy amongst the users. In the mean time, I'm adapting to it by just following the usual steps on how to fight against M79ers. Besides, the M79 kinda fulfills its purpose as the supposed close-ranged 1-hitter, though it might have overstepped a bit.

Here's a topic related to the M79, you may want to take a look around there:
http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=26884.0

The latest 1.5 mod would like the M79 to have more bink.

[Platehead]

Ummmm I kinda agree with 8th, in that M79 is a VERY annoying gun.  I personally find it extra annoying because I am a sawer, and they are just plain hard to kill.  It's hard to dodge them, as a sawer I know that, but I also know that there IS a way to dodge them.  If they are the M79 noobs that just kamikazee, it is in fact quite easy to trick them, make them misfire, then you kill them.  Removing it is out of the question, though I do understand why you may find it annoying.

[8th_account]

And the M79 is not short ranged, as STM suggests. The muzzle velocity can exceed 150 speed units when the player is moving at high speeds, which is noticably faster and will go further than spas' pellets at stand-still.

Are you saying that the M79's projectile actually moves faster if the user is moving faster himself or...?

Yes. Since version 1.2 the player's velocity is added to the bullet's velocity.

My personal ideal way to rebalance M79 is to make it exempt from that feature, giving it a constant muzzle velocity. This means that when you run forward, the shell will fire at 107 speed units instead of the current possible ~160. This would heavily reduce its effectiveness as a rushing tool, though the trick here is that what is looses in offense, it'll gain back in defensive capabilities. If this solution proved to thwart rush whoring, bink removal would be an option since M79 users don't need to be punished as much.

[STM1993]

Cool, then I'm not against the new M79 if the constant muzzle velocity was implemented for the M79.

Funny, it looks as though the M79 and the Spas have traded roles a little here and there.

[Alex_von_Vean]

What is the consern here? The m79 is a fun weapon to avoid... Sniper you say it takes all that skill away. I say you need more to be able to avoid it. I love playing with those m79ers . If possible stay above them and dont run the useull path . Never use all your jets cause you might need them 3 secs later.

My skill with the m79 is about 35% i can't do jack with it.

Plainly get your movement skill up . O, and common sense is a helper! Like look around think ahead.

Keep the m79 i say it gives noobs a reason to join the servers and me a reason to stack up the points. lol

[STM1993]

What is the consern here? The m79 is a fun weapon to avoid... Sniper you say it takes all that skill away. I say you need more to be able to avoid it. I love playing with those m79ers . If possible stay above them and dont run the useull path . Never use all your jets cause you might need them 3 secs later.

My skill with the m79 is about 35% i can't do jack with it.

Plainly get your movement skill up . O, and common sense is a helper! Like look around think ahead.

Keep the m79 i say it gives noobs a reason to join the servers and me a reason to stack up the points. lol

Well, not if everyone's nade spamming AND shooting M79s at you right after. I don't think you've been into the situation where you're the only one not using a M79 and everyone is aiming at you at the same time.

Actually, the new M79 if made, would be even easier to dodge actually, since the bullet speed is always the same whether you're moving faster or slower or backward even. It may bring about more users, and also less users at the same time, now that players can make estimated shots MUCH more easily than before, bu also cannot kamikaze into the enemy as well as normally before.

I'm only wondering if the movementacc will make a bigger difference as a result of this.

[Ziem]

Skoskav - Yeah, pretty good idea to make m79 more balanced, but... people will whine about m79's uselessness then :/

I think that adding some bink will be enough. wait... why do we post in whine-topic? :S

[Decaying Soldat]

Skoskav - Yeah, pretty good idea to make m79 more balanced, but... people will whine about m79's uselessness then :/

Or, it could require you to practice more on catching the m79's projectile arc rather than plain rushing. This may change the m79 into a more noble weapon. Just maybe.

[STM1993]

Isn't the M79 indirectly getting a minor buff due to lowered bullet push...?

Well, I've always not minded the M79 but the user who uses it. Actually, in fact, I think we shouldn't be whining about the weapon, it's more of the user when it comes to the M79. I wonder how many idiots only know how to run and BOOM and how many who can really make a good arc shot. I just hope that if this new change were to be made, more people would choose to use it that way instead of the gay way.

[Ziem]

Decaying Soldat - no, noobs on publics will still cry, as long as m79 is 1-hit kill and it's good to spawnkill with it.

Making m79 different won't make people different.

[a-4-year-old]

Play on bigger maps. Problem solved.