Author Topic: Gun Balance  (Read 7802 times)

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Offline Traciatim

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Gun Balance
« on: July 23, 2006, 03:26:47 pm »
It would be nice if the guns balanced out al ittle bit better so that each one was used more, taking the stats off of u13's servers take a look:

M79                477,840
Grenade         389,217
Barret M82A1 324,153
Ruger 77        159,256
Steyr AUG      122,786
HK MP5          120,977
Spas-12         120,861
Ak-74             119,583
Desert Eagles 117,218
Combat Knife    66,145
USSOCOM         52,140
LAW                 47,358
FN Minimi         45,042
Hands              32,024
Chainsaw        23,552
XM214 Minigun 17,483

Listed is the number of kills made by eachy weapon. Also take in to consideration that usually the top killers in the game don't use a barret or M79 making the amount of use of these weapons far outweighing the other guns.

It's just sad that you can be playing games of 4 v 4 or even 6 v 6 and sometime not even see another gun except my Spas and the M79 and Barret.

Offline The Geologist

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2006, 03:33:52 pm »
The popularity of a gun doesn't necessarily relate to things being out of balance.
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Offline Pyroguy

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2006, 03:37:24 pm »
Well, that is the number ok kills, not popularity. What someone should do is find the kills of a weapon and divide it by popularity. Then you will get a real feel for its balance.

Offline Will

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2006, 03:39:45 pm »
I cant believe that Socom is more popular than Minimi!!!!!
Also I agree with the geologist because that would suggest that grenades are out of balance too.

Offline The Geologist

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2006, 03:41:12 pm »
What someone should do is find the kills of a weapon and divide it by popularity.

What does this even mean?  Divide by the popularity?  Do you mean the number of people using those guns?

Look, people like one hit weapons...it takes a while to get into using the autos, and I'm guessing that a lot of the people stuck using the barret/m79 do so because they not only enjoy it, but because they aren't proficient enough with autos/other guns to make decent use out of 'em.  Who wants to play a game they suck at?


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Offline a-4-year-old

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2006, 03:57:27 pm »
when you know you are getting better, it is encouraging to keep playing a game you suck at.

grinades are unpredictable, on a laggy server, they may do no damage at all and on u13 they can be 1hit kills.
If we hit the bullseye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. -Zapp Brannigan

Offline Pyroguy

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2006, 06:48:34 pm »
Erm, I am saying, you divide how many kills a weapons gets by how much people have used it. That way you get kills independent of popularity (less people means a lower quotient which means a higher end result). That way you can see if a weapon is unbalanced, at least killing wise.

Offline a-4-year-old

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2006, 07:11:12 pm »
ok... although nobody would ever bother to do that, many people already think that the m79 is unbalanced, I am one of them.

This topic needs to be locked now, there is no idea here, there is only some numbers that don't really mean anything and someone telling me shit i already know.
If we hit the bullseye the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate. -Zapp Brannigan

Offline Traciatim

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2006, 10:51:42 pm »
There is an idea, if you would take the time and read the post., The guns need balancing. The grenades show higher because everyone has them. The secondaries don't really count either, thoug they could be together in their own category too.

The top killers of the game usually are NOT the barretard or the newb (m79) which makes them used over and above what the numbers even show here.

Just look around on the servers, you see in a 12 v 12 game you will see around 18 m79's and barrets, and a mixture of others. The point is they kill far too fast, reload way to quick making them a far better choice over any of the other weapons, and it needs to change.

Offline BooBoo McBad

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2006, 06:51:16 pm »
WRONG. It's not overpowered, it just becomes a problem when every player uses it. Don't like it? Use a weapon, kill them with it alot, and they will try other weapons to counter you.

The only weapon I feel is nerfed is the HK MP5.

Offline Stalky

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2006, 07:11:09 pm »
Moved to Weapons Balance Discussion. Please read forum rules in future, before you post.

Offline Twistkill

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2006, 07:58:05 pm »
Traciatim: They're not over-powered just because everyone uses them! Have you even tried using the barrett? It has a delay, a start-up time, and a moving aim penalty. Plus, ONE bullet hit from any other gun binks you, so you can miss even if you're at close range. Although, the M79 is annoying.

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Offline Traciatim

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2006, 08:57:40 am »
Quote
Use a weapon, kill them with it alot, and they will try other weapons to counter you.


I do, I almost exclusivly use the Spas. Look at my stats from when I play on the public CTF on U13. I've made myself a rule that I will never use the M79 unless I pick it up from another player. I've been playing like that for months. Problem is one outr of every 1.1 players has the M79 in hand when they die.

Quote
They're not over-powered just because everyone uses them!

I disagree. The only reason everyone uses them is because they have huge advantages over all other weapons from being overpowered. Everyone knows it so they all use them.

SUre, if your playing on a map with say.... 150 other people, their delays make sense. With 8 v 8 though there is almost always enough time to reload between people making them far too over powered.



P.S. I realize you can't have 150 people.... THAT'S THE POINT. It seems like every single post I put somone has some small remark that discounts it based on my typing, some ommission, or is completely useless.


Offline Mr. Domino

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2006, 09:21:55 am »
With 8 v 8 though there is almost always enough time to reload between people making them far too over powered.

You try taking on eight people with a single M79. :P Seriously though, it is a balanced weapon, but CTF by design tends to cater to the weapon's strengths by getting enemies to run into range, and the bugs/lag which allow for expanded hit radius and kamikaze kills without selfkill do make it overpowered.

Funny how "Gun Balance" becomes another M79 thread. :)

Offline Twistkill

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2006, 09:57:22 am »
Quote
Use a weapon, kill them with it alot, and they will try other weapons to counter you.


I do, I almost exclusivly use the Spas. Look at my stats from when I play on the public CTF on U13. I've made myself a rule that I will never use the M79 unless I pick it up from another player. I've been playing like that for months. Problem is one outr of every 1.1 players has the M79 in hand when they die.

Quote
They're not over-powered just because everyone uses them!

I disagree. The only reason everyone uses them is because they have huge advantages over all other weapons from being overpowered. Everyone knows it so they all use them.
No, no, no. It may seem that way, but trust me, it's because they actually know how to use them. Except for the m79. :P Barrett doesn't have that big of an advantage because there are many things to balance it out. Why don't you try actually using the weapon in a match, then come back and tell me that it's not easy. -_- Just because many people use a weapon doesn't mean it's over-powered, they realize that it's a good weapon that is harder to master.

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Offline -Vis-

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2006, 10:28:43 am »
I tried the barret on u13 INF yesterday... I was killing everyone with it for a minute or two... then I died and switched weapons. I'm not saying it's overpowered though. But it's certainly not as hard to use as people make out, unless you're above or below someone, then it's a bit harder.

I disagree. The only reason everyone uses them is because they have huge advantages over all other weapons from being overpowered. Everyone knows it so they all use them.
No, no, no. It may seem that way, but trust me, it's because they actually know how to use them.

That, in many cases, is complete balderdash. People often switch to m79 and barret because other people are using them (Because it's EASIER TO KILL). That's why the games end up being one-hit kill fests. That happened in at least 2 servers I played on yesterday. When I went in, a couple of barrets, couple of m79s, a few autos, my spas.... and after about 6 rounds, all barrets.
  Most of the time I stick to Spas/Steyr, but occasionally I switch to the barret for a bit if I'm the only person not using one. I get tired of my head bouncing around all over the map.  :-[

One other thing I noticed... everyone says that the barret is hard to use because of bink from autos. The weird thing is, I agree when I'm using the weapon, but when I try to bink barreters (usually with the Steyr), they always manage to still hit me, even after a few hits. Is bink predictable or something?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 10:31:36 am by -Vis- »


Offline Twistkill

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2006, 12:45:38 pm »
I tried the barret on u13 INF yesterday... I was killing everyone with it for a minute or two... then I died and switched weapons. I'm not saying it's overpowered though. But it's certainly not as hard to use as people make out, unless you're above or below someone, then it's a bit harder.

I disagree. The only reason everyone uses them is because they have huge advantages over all other weapons from being overpowered. Everyone knows it so they all use them.
No, no, no. It may seem that way, but trust me, it's because they actually know how to use them.

That, in many cases, is complete balderdash. People often switch to m79 and barret because other people are using them (Because it's EASIER TO KILL). That's why the games end up being one-hit kill fests. That happened in at least 2 servers I played on yesterday. When I went in, a couple of barrets, couple of m79s, a few autos, my spas.... and after about 6 rounds, all barrets.
  Most of the time I stick to Spas/Steyr, but occasionally I switch to the barret for a bit if I'm the only person not using one. I get tired of my head bouncing around all over the map.  :-[

One other thing I noticed... everyone says that the barret is hard to use because of bink from autos. The weird thing is, I agree when I'm using the weapon, but when I try to bink barreters (usually with the Steyr), they always manage to still hit me, even after a few hits. Is bink predictable or something?
Bink is not predictable. They still hit you because bink makes the bullets fire in more random directions, but one bullet may strill be able to fire straight.

And yes, it's not *really* hard to use, but it certainly requires more practice than other weapons.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2006, 12:47:56 pm by Twistkill »

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Offline Mr. Domino

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2006, 01:27:55 pm »
And yes, it's not *really* hard to use, but it certainly requires more practice than other weapons.

Not really. Camping is as easy as ever. Being an active Barreter just requires learning to prone before shooting to correct selfbink, which isn't that hard at all to adjust to. The speed, accuracy, and power of the bullet almost guarantees a kill, and it remains pretty much a point-and-click weapon from all ranges. At least the M79 does require speed and arc knowledge to hit mid to long range targets.

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2006, 01:30:02 pm »
Once binked, I reckon there's still a 33% chance that the bullet will fly as intended... Same goes for selfbink, and it's an ugly system because there's only 3 bullet routes, instead of the infinite one would expect with randomness.

Offline Twistkill

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Re: Gun Balance
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2006, 09:10:35 am »
And yes, it's not *really* hard to use, but it certainly requires more practice than other weapons.

Not really. Camping is as easy as ever. Being an active Barreter just requires learning to prone before shooting to correct selfbink, which isn't that hard at all to adjust to. The speed, accuracy, and power of the bullet almost guarantees a kill, and it remains pretty much a point-and-click weapon from all ranges. At least the M79 does require speed and arc knowledge to hit mid to long range targets.
Yes, but even then, you can still miss because of the movement aim penalty while you're flying in the air, and when you miss against an auto user, you're pretty much fucked. And btw, there is an arc to the Barrett bullet. Albeit a relatively small arc, but it's there nonetheless. It only works well in really large maps because of that.

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