Gun Balance

[Mr. Domino]

Yes, but even then, you can still miss because of the movement aim penalty while you're flying in the air, and when you miss against an auto user, you're pretty much ****ed.

The same goes for the M79. Also, the movement penalty for the Barret is negated by proning. There definitely is a bit more setup into using the Barret with loading a shot and having to prone, but it still provides an instant kill with far greater range and speed than the M79. Plus, you can use the Barret when surrounded by teammates or camping near crates and other structures without risk of self damage/kill.

And btw, there is an arc to the Barrett bullet. Albeit a relatively small arc, but it's there nonetheless. It only works well in really large maps because of that.

Yeah, but the arc doesn't really come into play unless you're looking to cross the map with the bullet. For most encounters within a screen/screen-and-a-half view, the Barret offers the best accuracy next to the Ruger.

[Twistkill]

Even while proning, the shot can still miss if you're moving quickly. The M79 reloads faster, has no bink, start-up time, or delay, and it has a unique arc that allows it to be aimed into tunnels at weird angles. it's short-range for a reason. No one uses it at long-range, because it's a short-range weapon. The Barrett is a long-range weapon, so obviously in maps like Nuubia or Snakebite, the Barrett doesn't fare as well. All weapons are good for a certain situation, and that is the main reason for different weapons. If every weapon could be balanced on every single situation, there would be no purpose on having different weapons in the first place. The Barrett does have greater speed and range, but there are several things that balance it that other guns don't have.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

The only weapon I feel is nerfed is the HK MP5.

I have to completely disagree with you here.  On small maps the MP5 owns.  It fires incredibly fast and kills just as quickly.  On ctf_death, ctf_nuubia, arena2, and other small maps, the MP5 is arguably the best weapon you can have.

[NinjaXrage]

I cant believe that Socom is more popular than Minimi!!!!!

Thats cause minimi looks ugly!
Go socom!

[The_Teacher]

Nice seeing the numbers, but I really don't blive they mean anything^^ Okay, so the m79 is top dog. It's still one of the easiest guns to fight.

I'm not saying that can''t be killed by it, but if you actually fight the enemy, it's pretty easy to get out unscratched.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

I would say the m79 is one of the hardest weapons for newbies to avoid.  When you play against autoers you can run right at them, since you'll probably take some damage and keep going.  Suddenly an m79er appears, and you unconsciously use the same strategy.  Only this time, the first shot that you take kills you.

Of course, you have the same situation when you're going up against a barret user.  You're running past him like you would an autoer, because you're used to being able to take 5 or 10 shots without dying.  Suddenly his first shot takes you out.

The problem is, people aren't flexible.  They tend to use the same strategy no matter what the situation is.  They will use their short range automatic, even though the other team uses only m79s.  They will use their m79s, even though the other team only uses barrets.  Many people will not choose the simple solution of using a ruger against an m79 or and AK-74 against a barret.

Over time, I've learned to dodge shortly after a barret user appears, to account for his startup time.  I've also learn to adjust my movements to stay out of the effective range of an m79er.  Unfortunately, many players approach the m79 like a normal weapon, and suffer accordingly.

The m79 accounts for most of the kills because it's easy for new players to use, simple of experienced players to keep using, and hard for inexperienced people to dodge.  It's not overpowered (you can kill two people with the ruger in the time it takes to kill one person with the m79); it's just popular.

[Death MachineX350]

I cant believe that Socom is more popular than Minimi!!!!!

Thats cause minimi looks ugly!
Go socom!

The minimi does look ugly that's why there are weapon mods. My minimi looks beautiful now!

[a-4-year-old]

overpowered (you can kill two people with the ruger in the time it takes to kill one person with the m79); it's just popular.

WRONG!
m79 is instant death, while a ruger needs 2-3 shots per person if they hit.

many maps are made for the m79, like the curves into the bases low on nuubia are the arch of an m79 perfectly, and maps like ash where a ruger would have to be way too close to an m79 it explodes.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

overpowered (you can kill two people with the ruger in the time it takes to kill one person with the m79); it's just popular.

WRONG!
m79 is instant death, while a ruger needs 2-3 shots per person if they hit.

I understand that.

M79: 1 instant kill (1 shot), then reload
Ruger: 2 kills (4 shots), then reload

The default fire interval for the ruger is 40.  The reload for the m79 is 180.  In other words, you can fire four ruger shots (160) before the m79 is ready to fire a second shot (180).  Therefore, you can kill two people with the ruger in the time it takes you to kill one person with the m79.  A better way of saying it may have been "you can kill two people with the ruger before you can kill two people with the m79."

[5th_account]

But you can kill one person faster with M79 than ruger, and if you just got the shortest break you'd have time to reload the M79. Statistically you're gonna get gangbanged anyway if it's a 1v2.

[Bgretydews]

overpowered (you can kill two people with the ruger in the time it takes to kill one person with the m79); it's just popular.

WRONG!
m79 is instant death, while a ruger needs 2-3 shots per person if they hit.

I understand that.

M79: 1 instant kill (1 shot), then reload
Ruger: 2 kills (4 shots), then reload

The default fire interval for the ruger is 40.  The reload for the m79 is 180.  In other words, you can fire four ruger shots (160) before the m79 is ready to fire a second shot (180).  Therefore, you can kill two people with the ruger in the time it takes you to kill one person with the m79.  A better way of saying it may have been "you can kill two people with the ruger before you can kill two people with the m79."

Your wrong the only advantage ruger has in that sence is if you have just spwaned,
Think about it you shoot with m79 and start reloading after the ruger has shot 4 shots your ready to fire again so its 2 m79 shots in 4 ruger shots, with only 20 tick differance and shooting 4 bullets are mor elikely to miss/legshot that shooting 2 m79 bullets

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Your wrong the only advantage ruger has in that sence is if you have just spwaned,
Think about it you shoot with m79 and start reloading after the ruger has shot 4 shots your ready to fire again so its 2 m79 shots in 4 ruger shots, with only 20 tick differance and shooting 4 bullets are mor elikely to miss/legshot that shooting 2 m79 bullets

First of all, I never said that you would always get two kills with the ruger to one with the m79.  I just said it was possible.

Secondly, four bullets are more likely to miss than two bullets?  I fail to see the logic in that.  Assuming similar skill with the respective weapons, they should each have the same miss rate.

If you look at the weapons.ini file, you'll see that it takes 186 ticks for the m79 to complete a firing (one shot, one kill).  It takes 260 ticks for the ruger to complete a firing (four shots, two kills).  An m79 requires 372 ticks before it can make a third kill.  A ruger can make three kills in 340 ticks  (160 for clip, 100 for reload, 80 for next two shots).  This advantage increases as more shots are fired.  Five firings for the ruger (10 kills) take 1300 ticks.  Ten firings for the m79 (10 kills) take 1860 ticks.  Let's say you only get leg shots, so every kill takes three hits for the ruger (still one for the m79).  After three firings with the ruger (780 ticks), you get four kills.  After four firings with the m79 (744 ticks), you also get four kills.  So yes, if you always hit with the m79 and only sometimes hit with the ruger, the m79 is slightly better.  However, even m79ers don't hit every time.

Anyway, there's the math behind Soldat .  Let me know if you see any errors with it.

Speaking of big numbers, this is my 100th post! W00t!

[MofoNofo]

Nothing wrong with the M79, just the Barrett and LAW got a start-up time, it's them we must fix up. last version would you have complained about m79, compared to a barrett? Remember being called Barretard? Doesnt happen anymore. By weakening 1(barrett) or 2(law) weapons out of 3 of the strongest weapons in-game, ofcourse the 3rd (m79) will have an advantage. But it was never given that advantage instead, the other weapons have had their advantages stripped.

Only solution: either start-up on all 3, or none at all, then add alot of bink to all 3.

[Mr. Domino]

But it was never given that advantage instead, the other weapons have had their advantages stripped.

Huh? Barret still is the fastest shot in the game, covers the most ground, is the steadiest aim and most accurate, and still kills on impact. Same with the LAW. The delay has hardly stripped them of any advantage, and in the Barret's case is largely a non-factor. M79 can't have delay since it'll ruin rocket jumping, and having a delay on what still is a short range weapon on top of that existing long reload is just ridiculous.

[Twistkill]

But it was never given that advantage instead, the other weapons have had their advantages stripped.

Huh? Barret still is the fastest shot in the game, covers the most ground, is the steadiest aim and most accurate, and still kills on impact. Same with the LAW. The delay has hardly stripped them of any advantage, and in the Barret's case is largely a non-factor. M79 can't have delay since it'll ruin rocket jumping, and having a delay on what still is a short range weapon on top of that existing long reload is just ridiculous.

Um... M79's reload is quite fast, on the contrary. I admit, there are some good M79 users out there, but it's not as hard to master as other weapons.

[O.R.I.O.N.]

The only true balancing problem in the sense of realism is the Barrett's fire rate.  Those things are gas and recoil operated, not bolt action.  They can unload a round per second, I've seen videos.  And technically, the LAW is a one-shot deal, so technically it shouldn't reload at all.  Everything else is fine.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

The only true balancing problem in the sense of realism is the Barrett's fire rate. Those things are gas and recoil operated, not bolt action. They can unload a round per second, I've seen videos. And technically, the LAW is a one-shot deal, so technically it shouldn't reload at all. Everything else is fine.

So many people confuse Soldat with real life...

Soldat is not meant to be realistic.  That's why you have jetboots, can carry a minigun, and can take multiple shots without bleeding or dying.  The weapons are not meant to be realistically balanced; indeed, if they were like real life, the game would not be popular because it's so UNBALANCED.

[O.R.I.O.N.]

I know that.  I'm just saying that in respect of how the gun really works.  I know that the Barrett would be way too effective if it behaved realistically.  So would every other weapon in the game.  I'm not confusing Soldat with reality, I'm just comparing it.

[Twistkill]

I know that.  I'm just saying that in respect of how the gun really works.  I know that the Barrett would be way too effective if it behaved realistically.  So would every other weapon in the game.  I'm not confusing Soldat with reality, I'm just comparing it.

Even so, you shouldn't, because it will most likely confuse people. See how people will accuse you of comparing it to real-life? Exactly.

[Keron Cyst]

Besides, O.R.I.O.N., firing it at that rate would deafen you in real life, too. The rate of fire in Soldat is how you should handle it to full usage in real life.