Gun Balance

[O.R.I.O.N.]

lol, dude, my best friend has a freaking M82A1, and of course it's loud.  I've been near him when he fired it.  Besides, it was meant to have high rate of fire, just think about it.  Usually, if a sniper misses his first shot on a slow-shooting weapon, chances are he's boned.   So don't tell me how to use a freaking Barrett.

[Keron Cyst]

Sheesh, I'm sorry I'm not you, then oO'

[xurol]

The weapon balance as it is now is better than it has ever been. There has always been, and always will be, one weapon that the majority of public-server players will prefer to use. This version, it is M79 because it is relatively easy to play well with.

However, the problem is not the M79. It is a problem when an entire server uses it, but there have been occasions when I've gone into a server where everyone used Steyr or MP5 or Barret and that's just as much of a problem. The solution is not to change the M79. If you are uncomfortable with the number of players using M79 in a server, play somewhere else. Or better yet, get involved with the competitive clan scene of Soldat.

[Keron Cyst]

The thing is, not many people can scrounge enough time to be able to compete seriously in clans & tournaments regularly, or some just don't like the rules, setup, trying to locate times for gathering in practice, recruitment, or clanwars, etc. I'm one of 'em.

[O.R.I.O.N.]

The weapon balance as it is now is better than it has ever been. There has always been, and always will be, one weapon that the majority of public-server players will prefer to use. This version, it is M79 because it is relatively easy to play well with.

However, the problem is not the M79. It is a problem when an entire server uses it, but there have been occasions when I've gone into a server where everyone used Steyr or MP5 or Barret and that's just as much of a problem. The solution is not to change the M79. If you are uncomfortable with the number of players using M79 in a server, play somewhere else. Or better yet, get involved with the competitive clan scene of Soldat.

I can understand that some people may think the 'ol Bumper may be a bit too effective, but xurol is absoultley right.

Another point:  I hate it when you use a M79 and instantly get classified as a n00b.  Listen, being n00bish with a M79 when you fire at random or just kill yourself with it.  There is a large degree of skill in using the M79 effectively.

[Zamorak]

The arc comes into play at ranges of 41-50+ meters.

Also, the arc is important when scoping moving players, and scoping across map in a cannon like fashion.

[ArmedManiac]

dude, if u fire a barret and arent good, ur "boned" if u arent good wit socom, knife, law, and maybe law. most of the noobs that use barret run in, get 1 shot off, die, repeat process. if u make it deal less or w/e, all the good people(like kinda me) would get made. if u made it better, u would give roaches nukes, barret is fine

[Axel]

oi, i think that it should have a startup time. steyrs, mp5s and barrets dominating servers is okay because they're "normal" weapons, using bullets. the biggest problem with m79, and especially with an entire server using it, is the fact that it EXPLODES. if all of the friggin enemies charge in, just like they do, then they spray with their 79s, it gets to just being no fun when one team gets the upper hand and continually sprays the base, spawnkillin, pushing people around and doing untargeted damage, while the only member that doesnt have one rushes in and snatches the flag. they do this until everyone quits. when 7-10 people have the 79, it gets to be explosive spray, and that is what really pisses people off and adds leverage to the overbalance of the weapon. make a startup time. new players would stop using it and go back to the "normal", unexplosive weapons and it can be called a skill gun for those who get used to the startup time, just like the barrett, rather than a nuub weapon. just remember, explosive spray combined with spawnkilling is the worst and nuubiest thing you could do in any server, so dont do it or add in a delay!!!!

[ArmedManiac]

dude, try using a 79, or a barret, they are easy to get 1 kill per death with, of course, they kill in one hit, but past that one shot, thats wen skill kicks in. granted, if like 10 guys run in with 79, it is hard to deal with, but spawning isnt that bad. u just gotta stand back a little making it really hard for a 79 to hit u. as with the whole only firing barret on the ground, u might as well take it out, cuz no one will use it. the guns are as good as their gonna get

[Axel]

dude, im not talking about spawn camping, im talking about spawn killing. what i was talking about is the problem that 5-6 people just fly around your base shooting the spawning points, and youll know the maps where this is a big issue when you play those servers. some arent as bad as others, but some have the spawning points being on an island like area, where there are entrances both in front of and behind, and especially in maps where it is an open space with entrances on both sides. the entire enemy team pick can 79s and just jump, jet, spray etc. the spawns so that as soon as you spawn, you have bink and are being pushed a little ways in some direction, and there are grenades and explosions everywher, then 1 person comes in and steals the flag while all of your team is busy trying to get rid of the spawners, which, never happens because as soon as 1 dies another that respawned arrives to fill his place.

[ArmedManiac]

how will a shot delay fix this then. i am not trying to be critical, just want some answers

[Axel]

fewer shots dissallow the killing. ud be able to fight them better when you spawn, and a 1 or 2 sec delay outside of the reload would make people have to practice to be able to hit someone well, cuz youd have to hold on the mouse button for a second which will help make you hesitate if you cant keep a bead on the guy. its like the barrett, but explosive. also, we're on thin ice with the startup suggestion i made. be sure to only contibute to this topic in your posts. it might get locked otherwise. also, be sure to get the expirimental balance. we're being stupid not getting that and continually complaining about a 9 month old balance
get it first and then post

[ArmedManiac]

also, on that point, i personally have been shot down by a mod and had a forum locked that was about this issue, and he said it will never happen

[Axel]

we posted at the same time, or atleast i modded and you posted at the same time. re read my post. hopefully noone will take offense to the fact that i made the suggestion

[Zamorak]

First off, I would like to say that using statistics such as this don't mean much of anything.


Also, since when in ANY game is each weapon used equally?


Then, suppose that every gun was evenly balanced right? So everyone starts to use one specific gun because they like it. Just because they are all balanced doesn't neccesarilly mean that they will all be equally used.

Balance is misunderstood, weapon balance is situational and cannot be applied across the board.

[Iq Unlimited]

Zammy


I've said this before and I'l lsay it agin, basically all the guns are balanced, depending on what you like. the Barret could have a tinnnnnny bit less delay, but otherize I think all the guns are vey well-balanced. Its your strengths and weaknesses that make you think thereunbalanced, I'm ood vs. barret and m79, but suck vs. deagles and some autos. so yeah, it all depends.


Iq Unlimited

[Cato269]

Iq, if all the guns were balanced, why is this part of the forums here?

[5th_account]

If you cannot notice the current unbalance then you won't notice a correction done to it.

[ArmedManiac]

i think the barret is fine. i use it, and it cuts in more than half the noob spray of barrets, the m79 is hard enough that noobs cant do undo damage unless there are like the whole team. ur correct, guns are balanced, and its kinda a triangle of wat beats wat.

[-Vis-]

Your wrong the only advantage ruger has in that sence is if you have just spwaned,
Think about it you shoot with m79 and start reloading after the ruger has shot 4 shots your ready to fire again so its 2 m79 shots in 4 ruger shots, with only 20 tick differance and shooting 4 bullets are mor elikely to miss/legshot that shooting 2 m79 bullets

First of all, I never said that you would always get two kills with the ruger to one with the m79.  I just said it was possible.

Secondly, four bullets are more likely to miss than two bullets?  I fail to see the logic in that.  Assuming similar skill with the respective weapons, they should each have the same miss rate.

If you look at the weapons.ini file, you'll see that it takes 186 ticks for the m79 to complete a firing (one shot, one kill).  It takes 260 ticks for the ruger to complete a firing (four shots, two kills).  An m79 requires 372 ticks before it can make a third kill.  A ruger can make three kills in 340 ticks  (160 for clip, 100 for reload, 80 for next two shots).  This advantage increases as more shots are fired.  Five firings for the ruger (10 kills) take 1300 ticks.  Ten firings for the m79 (10 kills) take 1860 ticks.  Let's say you only get leg shots, so every kill takes three hits for the ruger (still one for the m79).  After three firings with the ruger (780 ticks), you get four kills.  After four firings with the m79 (744 ticks), you also get four kills.  So yes, if you always hit with the m79 and only sometimes hit with the ruger, the m79 is slightly better.  However, even m79ers don't hit every time.

Anyway, there's the math behind Soldat .  Let me know if you see any errors with it.

Speaking of big numbers, this is my 100th post! W00t!

Here's an error for you. You say a ruger can make 3 kills in 340 ticks. 160 for a clip, 100 for reload, and 80 for the next 2 shots. This is wrong. The first shot in your clip requires no wait time. Therefore, the first clip only requires 120 ticks, and the 2 shots after the reload only require 40 ticks. That comes to 260 ticks, rather than 340.

Work the rest out for yourself.