Saw while backflipping

[Hair|Trigger]

You can't rev your chainsaw while in a backflip..

Trust me, as sawers we NEED this

There would be Nothing cooler than doing a backflip cannonball and carving your way through the members of bravo and landing in their base.  Nothing.


While im at it why not add in the ability to shoot in a backflip aswell?

Edit: added a poll to make things easier

[UnknownSniper]

I personally have to say F11, I can't really explain why in words... Sorry.

[Hair|Trigger]

Gtfo..

[UnknownSniper]

Gtfo..

Okay, What uses would it have other than to 'be cool,' as you put it?

[Decaying Soldat]

I would say no to firing while back-flipping. It's sort of an evading action, which focuses on avoiding gunfire while foregoing your chance to attack.
But I would like to see chainsaw cannonballs though. I think it buffs the chainsaw, and makes it more fun to use.

[UnknownSniper]

Yeah, It'd have a nice effect on bots set to 'Impossible.'
Nade them, they get into a backflip and fly at you....

[The Geologist]

I actually had this thought the other day when I was in game.

I was in a position to do just what this topic suggests.  Backflipping, I had my saw out and noticed it sticking out in perfect position to cut up or at least injure a couple people while moving.  Heck, I was even clicking the mouse, to no avail.

I'd say f12 for the saw.  It wouldn't have that much of an impact but it could add a nice touch to the saw, which is already a fairly limited weapon due to it's close range.

[Blue-ninja]

The saw is a lot bigger in this soldat version now than in the 1.3.1 version. F11. Most people wouldn't have a problem with the saw's close range, as there are some saw experts that wouldn't have any problems with the saw's short range.

[STM1993]

Not a bad idea for saw. Other weapons it's a hell no.

But I think saw is really good enough as it is. Don't have to boost it further probably except a faster reload or making the reg better for it.



Instead, I have a better suggestion for it. I'll put it up in a separate topic:

http://forums.soldat.pl/index.php?topic=28199

[Lord Frunkamunch]

F12. One of the main annoyances while sawing was the missed opportunities from this.

STM's right int he the other weapons don't really need this. Not that'd it'd be unbalanced, it's just...Hell, I don't WANT my weapon to fire while I'm backflipping.

[UnknownSniper]

F12. One of the main annoyances while sawing was the missed opportunities from this.

STM's right int he the other weapons don't really need this. Not that'd it'd be unbalanced, it's just...Hell, I don't WANT my weapon to fire while I'm backflipping.

If you backflip and use saw, or any gun, wouldn't it just turn around and cut/shoot you in the butt?

[Sir Jeremy]

Mhm, so The Geologist does play Soldat
But about the idea mhm, whenever I saw in a saw only server, i do the same attack as the others, but I am the one always dieng it's weird..but eh, maybe this would be cool, so I'm gonna go with f12.  Good Luck

And for guns..maybe yes too.

[The Geologist]

The saw is a lot bigger in this soldat version now than in the 1.3.1 version. F11. Most people wouldn't have a problem with the saw's close range, as there are some saw experts that wouldn't have any problems with the saw's short range.

It's not about extending the range.  Just functionality.

[The Philanthropist]

It's the goddamn saw. No one gets any kills with it anyways, it needs every bonus it can get.

[STM1993]

It's the goddamn saw. No one gets any kills with it anyways, it needs every bonus it can get.

That's not true. It's just a bit tough to use. A good sawer can even mow through a whole group of enemies like no tomorrow.

[BRADEN]

F11, that would just be too much. How the fuck can you shoot an assault rifle while you are turning upside down, and hit the target!?

[The Geologist]

I think the emphasis was on giving the ability to the saw.  Autos were just kinda..tossed in there for s**ts and giggles?

[BondJamesBond]

Sonic

First, I don't see how the animation/visual effect would work - and then I can really picture people just backflipping their way across a map. 

The saw is great to give your team TIME. If your FFC is escaping or your base is swamped, use the saw to slow opponents down. Chances are they will do what they can to avoid you.

-- This assuming you're not using the saw in totally inappropriate times and areas or trying to gain kills in the middle of the map.

[Ziem]

In my opinion it's a waste of time, and chainsaw can be buffed by changing the wm.

[Hair|Trigger]

Bond, How does any of that affect the ability to saw during a backflip?

and the weapon is not used for just slowing people down...  It CAN be used to slow people down, but team tactics are not what this idea is for.  

This idea is aimed towards people who saw vs other sawers, not nessecarily gunners.  Put it this way, there are few manouvers that one can choose when making direct saw contact with an enemy.  As a matter of fact, only one element of soldat movement is involved in sawing.  The prone position.  Of course theres jumping, but that is involved in all of soldat, its common sense.  The idea of introducing backflipping into saw moves opens the door to more opportunities and options during a saw to saw confrontation.  Along with that, it CAN be used on gunners (cannon ball saw strike ftw?)

Date Posted: July 04, 2008, 08:27:30 pm

In my opinion it's a waste of time, and chainsaw can be buffed by changing the wm.

I beg you to take a closer look.

[Laser Guy]

It's the goddamn saw. No one gets any kills with it anyways, it needs every bonus it can get.

Youre cery wrong sir, many people use saw nowdays, including me.

[Pie]

It's the goddamn saw. No one gets any kills with it anyways, it needs every bonus it can get.

Youre cery wrong sir, many people use saw nowdays, including me.

Just because you use it doesn't mean you get epic amounts of kills with it...

[Laser Guy]

And why would you say that? Have you ever played with me? No... Ask ANYONE who played with me recently. About 30% of my kills are with saw.

[LtKillroy]

<3 Contra F12.

[BondJamesBond]

Bond, How does any of that affect the ability to saw during a backflip?

and the weapon is not used for just slowing people down...  It CAN be used to slow people down, but team tactics are not what this idea is for.  

This idea is aimed towards people who saw vs other sawers, not nessecarily gunners.  Put it this way, there are few manouvers that one can choose when making direct saw contact with an enemy.  As a matter of fact, only one element of soldat movement is involved in sawing.  The prone position.  Of course theres jumping, but that is involved in all of soldat, its common sense.  The idea of introducing backflipping into saw moves opens the door to more opportunities and options during a saw to saw confrontation.  Along with that, it CAN be used on gunners (cannon ball saw strike ftw?)

WHAT I AM saying is that this idea is trying to CHANGE the purpose of the saw as tactical tool. You're trying to make it more efficient as a killer while I am saying that the saw's purpose can be seen as more strategical.

And it would take a shinyfooload of buffs to finally make the saw a killer. Keep it as a tactical tool.

[Demonic]

'Have chainsaw keep firing even when the player engages in animation, be it rolling, backflipping, proning and unproning, yadda-yadda'.

why just limit it to the flip.

[Hair|Trigger]

Bond, How does any of that affect the ability to saw during a backflip?

and the weapon is not used for just slowing people down...  It CAN be used to slow people down, but team tactics are not what this idea is for. 

This idea is aimed towards people who saw vs other sawers, not nessecarily gunners.  Put it this way, there are few manouvers that one can choose when making direct saw contact with an enemy.  As a matter of fact, only one element of soldat movement is involved in sawing.  The prone position.  Of course theres jumping, but that is involved in all of soldat, its common sense.  The idea of introducing backflipping into saw moves opens the door to more opportunities and options during a saw to saw confrontation.  Along with that, it CAN be used on gunners (cannon ball saw strike ftw?)

WHAT I AM saying is that this idea is trying to CHANGE the purpose of the saw as tactical tool. You're trying to make it more efficient as a killer while I am saying that the saw's purpose can be seen as more strategical.

And it would take a shinyfooload of buffs to finally make the saw a killer. Keep it as a tactical tool.

This is keeping it a tactical tool.  The change wont affect gunplay much, but give Chainsaw face-offs more options.  I am not trying to make it more efficient as a killer, only a pro climber or someone very good on their feet could pull off such a kill against, say, an MP5 or spas user.  See it has little to do with its tactical use on an open playing field.

[Peu]

would overpower saw. It would affect gameplay because sawers will be able to radically change the direction of their movement while still being effective in killing. You can't even reload while backflipping, why would you be able to kill? If the argument is for the simplicity of just keeping a saw running, consider the ease of holding a trigger. More so, it's easy to do tiny backflips, this would allow the sawer to easily kill everyone around them with the flip. If that's what you want, how is this not unbalanced?

[The Geologist]

I fail to see how this would make the saw overpowered, considering every other weapon in the game has a range advantage.  It'd be a drop in the pond.

[Platehead]

F12 FTW!!!!!!

I HAVE A DREAM.....

And Hair|Trigger posted it.

Ok... I agree with F11 to guns, because backflip is evasive / agility move, not a uber movie trick move where the guy with the sniper does a no-hand cartwheel and shoots a guy in the fase.

But with saw, I'd actually like to see it extended to being able to hew someone's head off while backflipping, rolling, and all that like Demonic said.  I personally defaultly use knife due to more versatility and because of CWs and gathers.  But in pubs if my aim is off, I saw and many times I do cannon into someone while clicking... not a good experience. 

SO yeah F12 to saw but not guns

[Peu]

I fail to see how this would make the saw overpowered, considering every other weapon in the game has a range advantage.  It'd be a drop in the pond.

Every other weapon has a range advantage, because the chainsaw is an instant kill weapon which can run continuously for many seconds... and has a range bigger than it pretends to.

Why do you people pick saws if you have a problem with the range? It's a chainsaw, switch to it when you're close or something. Backflipping and rolling allow you to generate momentum and maintain momentum while also evading, you find this only mildly useful?

[Lord Frunkamunch]

More so, it's easy to do tiny backflips, this would allow the sawer to easily kill everyone around them with the flip. If that's what you want, how is this not unbalanced?

Are you kidding? That's impossible to the point of saying that the LAW is overpowered because you could potentially kill the entire enemy team with a single explosion.


*edit*

Backflipping and rolling allow you to generate momentum and maintain momentum while also evading, you find this only mildly useful?

Anyone else can use the same tactics to evade the saw, all while pushing the sawer back with bullets. Are you assuming in your imaginary example that the sawer is the only skilled person in the match?

[BondJamesBond]

Yes - the disadvantage to the saw is range. Just like any other weapon would have a disadvantage.

1) Pushing back with bullets. This goes for any short range weapon. Consider the M79. You will beat it 80% of the time with an auto if you take a step back and unload.

2) Easy to evade. Yes. But this is totally dependent on your opponent's skill and situation. Maybe your opponent is distracted and does not notice you sneak up. Maybe your opponent is a noob and mistimed their dodge. To aid you, you could always try coming in at different angles to give you better chances. Find a blindside OR the most exposed side (so even if they backflip out you can still reach them). AND REMEMBER when backflipping the opponent can't shoot and that gives you precious time to call the shots.

What advantages does the saw carry?
Like I explained - intimidation and 'distracting' the opponent.

Like peu explained - constant 1-hit kill motion that can slice open a horde of enemies in one move.

and that brings me to the third point - the saw is more capable of killing large groups of enemies than any other weapon

----

Ok so the point of that ^^^^^ speech was to hopefully explain why the saw is not at a bigger disadvantage than any other weapon

[The Geologist]

Every other weapon has a range advantage, because the chainsaw is an instant kill weapon which can run continuously for many seconds... and has a range bigger than it pretends to.

Why do you people pick saws if you have a problem with the range? It's a chainsaw, switch to it when you're close or something. Backflipping and rolling allow you to generate momentum and maintain momentum while also evading, you find this only mildly useful?

"range bigger than it pretends to"?  Sounds like a problem with lag to me.

And I've said it before, but I'll say it again.  It's not about extending the range, just the functionality.  You'd have to be as close to the person while back flipping as you would moving forward.  Not to mention you could just as easily end up getting shot while caught in the animation.

And I never said I found this only mildly useful.  I said it wouldn't make much of a difference in terms of balance.  As in, I highly doubt this would lead to scores of people complaining about total and utter saw domination.

[Peu]

I think the saw is already balanced.

[Xagonix]

In some games, when you backflip while shooting guns you shoot all over the place.

That should apply nicely here.

[Hair|Trigger]

I think the saw is already balanced.

You really cant call a secondary weapon "balanced".  Particularly the saw because it does not have use as a projectile unlike every other gun.   

I think of it like this:  the saw's huge diversity from the other weapons is it's balance margin.  If you added a small tweak (like this one)  to it, you will never notice it has been upped by such a small amount.  This mean, it's change is within the balance margin, because it is simply so different you wouldnt even think of balancing it to, say, the steyr or ruger.  The only way to get it out of it's large balance margin is if it was insanely oversized or was able to be used as a long range projectile (e.g. thrown like the knife).  Edit:  Thats just being one dimensional, there's also the problem that, how will you know what an "under-balanced" chainsaw is?

This suggestion has no effect on the balance of the saw in general.  It will give more options to people who are confronted to saw vs. saw.  If your not skilled (or dont know anything about) competitive saw wars you have no right to say no because chances are you dont understand. 

[SniperTheKiller]

Saw is too much underpowered in cw and such, could use additional power ups.

[poopdogg]

f12....

adding this to saw will be cool but for guns its a nonsense

[numgun]

YES, YES and ABSOLUTELY YES! F12!

This would truly not just extend the funcionality of the saw, but make it even more cooler and funner to use. Doing a barrel roll while sawing would be epic.

But this feature would only suit saw.

[Peu]

What you think is little, I think is lots. Our views differ on stylistic preference, there is little chance an argument about that would go anywhere useful.

Balance depends on the intended purpose. The intended purpose of the chainsaw is to be in a situation where you can saw the enemy before they can kill you. Like any other gun. Taking into account the saw's qualities, it is fit for certain situations, not all. Like any other gun.  Within the scope of the saw's use, considering it's qualities:I think that the saw is balanced. Pretty much... like every other gun.

I can think of many situations where dodging bullets, the thing that would eventually put a stopper on most sawer's massacre's, would be pretty damn useful if the sawer got to eliminate the sources of those same bullets at the same time. I can already smell the sweet, panic inducing randomness.

If the problem really is getting in range, pick up that sniper.

[Hair|Trigger]

The fact that one can backflip and saw at the same time does not make it more powerful

I dare you to go flip into the air with the chainsaw and make the saw blade come into contact with something (say, a bot with no weapon) while you are backflipping.   

Not so easy is it?

now try doing it to a bot with a weapon.

Therefore.  This will NOT alter the chainsaw's general balance among other weapons.   

This is why, if you have no saw war experience, you really dont have a reason to F11 until you consider the idea from a sawer's perspective..
Because the point of the idea is to introduce more combat options in a professionalised saw war, Not increase the saw's power. 

[Peu]

The fact that one can backflip and saw at the same time does not make it more powerful

I dare you to go flip into the air with the chainsaw and make the saw blade come into contact with something (say, a bot with no weapon) while you are backflipping.   

Not so easy is it?

now try doing it to a bot with a weapon.

Therefore.  This will NOT alter the chainsaw's general balance among other weapons.   

This is why, if you have no saw war experience, you really dont have a reason to F11 until you consider the idea from a sawer's perspective..
Because the point of the idea is to introduce more combat options in a professionalised saw war, Not increase the saw's power. 

"Because it's hard" is not a reason as to why it's not more powerful. Also, bots play different than players. Also, making a weapon's advanced moves more effective is still improving the weapon. From the perspective of someone who uses the backflip and roll excessively, I very, VERY often roll past and through my opponents, if I had a saw at those times....
The most effective way to generate upwards momentum is with a backflip off a slope, if you have that speed along with the killing ability... well, if that's mostly useless to you, then so be it.

[CrazyArcher]

I have another saw idea: when a player with a saw is killed while having the saw working, the saw continues to work for a small amount of time (0.75-1 sec), potentionally able to hit someone. It should probably have lower damage this way, but still be kinda dangerous. I think it would add more blood to the game, making it more fun.

[Hair|Trigger]

^I like it

I doubt Enesce will add it however. 

[Ziem]

CrazyArcher - no, it would kill the fun when playing saw only.

[Lumen-Shroom]

The fact that one can backflip and saw at the same time does not make it more powerful

I dare you to go flip into the air with the chainsaw and make the saw blade come into contact with something (say, a bot with no weapon) while you are backflipping.   

Not so easy is it?

now try doing it to a bot with a weapon.

Therefore.  This will NOT alter the chainsaw's general balance among other weapons.   

This is why, if you have no saw war experience, you really dont have a reason to F11 until you consider the idea from a sawer's perspective..
Because the point of the idea is to introduce more combat options in a professionalised saw war, Not increase the saw's power. 

"Because it's hard" is not a reason as to why it's not more powerful. Also, bots play different than players. Also, making a weapon's advanced moves more effective is still improving the weapon. From the perspective of someone who uses the backflip and roll excessively, I very, VERY often roll past and through my opponents, if I had a saw at those times....
The most effective way to generate upwards momentum is with a backflip off a slope, if you have that speed along with the killing ability... well, if that's mostly useless to you, then so be it.

There's no "most effective way" to gain momentum. They vary.

That said, the saw is an underused weapon and in most cases underpowered.

F12.

[Platehead]

Yeah, saw is a little underpowered, but usable.  Should get a slight buff in 1.5.0 when all bullet push is reduced.  I personally thing cannonball is one of the best momentum thingies, but I never use it due to the fact that you're bouncing backwards

[Lord Frunkamunch]

I'd use it more if you could kill people in the middle of it.

[blackdevil0742]

f12. I can just picture me how awesome the kill will be ;d

[Platehead]

I'd use it more if you could kill people in the middle of it.

That's my point in the previous post.  Since you're turned backwards, you can't even see anyone coming at you.  Due to your high velocity, it'd be extremely difficult to react long enough.  Even when you've reacted, you still need to morph your cannonball into a proning position (I believe it gets you out of any flip or roll) to register your shot.  Now, the second bit would be different if you could register your saw while flipping. 

[Lumen-Shroom]

Reaction time isn't an issue. The best sawwers can pluck an enemy flying past pronejetting and use ~5 ammo.

[The Epic Guy]

I like the idea, it should be implemented. For guns this should mean a spiral spray, right? Not the contra jump attack that most people think.

[Platehead]

Reaction time isn't an issue. The best sawwers can pluck an enemy flying past pronejetting and use ~5 ammo.

Yes, while moving forward.
While moving backward, you have minimal time to react (because of your sight - the most you can see is half a screen) then you still need to move your cursor to aim back forward before proning

[Lumen-Shroom]

You can saw people while backflipping, but the middle of the saw won't do it, as normal. Only the tip.

Proof at the end of this demo. When I backflip into PreParing in the flagspawn.

[STM1993]

Hmm... I really don't think its possible (I think its due to lag, like how some people say the person died and still capped). I tried doing something like that against bots. Didn't work. And my "Ammo" was not reduced. Only the sound was played.

[Platehead]

Yeah that's what happens to me.
Looks like the YESs outnumber the NOs quite a lot
I do hope they will implement this

[Hair|Trigger]

It needs 90% support from the community before it's officially a public request, then they will consider adding it. 

[Extacide]

I think someone doing a back flip with a saw has a better chance of shredding his own limbs off than anything else.

F11

[Lumen-Shroom]

I think someone doing a back flip with a saw has a better chance of shredding his own limbs off than anything else.

F11

And in real life they shoot LAWs at people

[Extacide]

Cause we all know that even in a fantasy shooter, putting a saw through your groin and chest wont kill you. Oh wait, theres /mercy for that.

[Hair|Trigger]

I think someone doing a back flip with a saw has a better chance of shredding his own limbs off than anything else.

F11

What the hell? 

we'll just edit the POA file if that happens

[-Major-]

Saw defently need a boost. but the boost should be to make it 1 hit kill and with greater than 10% reg (the hit reg is veeeeeery low).

[muzikman]

F12 for saw.  Would be really cool and is that not reason enough?

[L[0ne]R]

Even though saw is great the way it is now, backflip attacks will make it an even more fun weapon to use. It's not about just looking cool, as someone mentioned. It really is a nice new move that might even-up chances of killing your enemy, especially in an open area. I really doubt that this new feature will unbalance the saw.
As for other weapons - personally, I don't see how this feature can be useful, other than trying to get some lucky kills with m79 or barrett (unless you can still aim while doing a backflip).

And yes, hit reg.. one major thing I hate about saw. Sometimes even a tiny puny little lag can make saw very unpredictable.

[Gotfryd]

Saw defently need a boost. but the boost should be to make it 1 hit kill

What do you exactly mean?
Apart from hit registration, I tink that it's good that it takes more than one "shot" to kill somebody, because it makes saw-duels much more interesting.

[Hair|Trigger]

Actually I think hit-reg is more than enough to make saw duels more interesting, if not frustrating, it does kinda let you have another chance, which is good

[muzikman]

This shoukd get added tosuggestions sticky- I think it's a great idea.  Anyone disagree?

[L[0ne]R]

This shoukd get added tosuggestions sticky- I think it's a great idea.  Anyone disagree?

Actually, there's a lot of suggestions that still havent been added, even though they should be.
Anyway, I strongly aggree that it should be brought to developers' attention.

[muzikman]

well said old boy

[TradeMAAK]

I personally have to say F11, I can't really explain why in words... Sorry.

NOOB! Op's suggestion is great! Pity it will never get implemented like all the other cool stuff people have suggested in the past.

[Furai]

F11'ed, Raving with saw while backflipping? Imagine it to yourself...you'll shred yourself into pieces.
What about shooting? How the hell any real soldier could fire while doing backflip? It's just impossible. So, I said NO!!

[The Epic Guy]

Anything that makes the game more fun and balanced should not be dismissed because of realism. I don't even think that realism is a valid arguement anymore. Soldat is as surreal as it gets.

[TheWind]

I need to say f11, because it would be too much advance for good sawers, sorry ;/

[muzikman]

to much advance?  You mean an advantage?  If so really it wouldn't, any saw back flip could almost always be excecuted by a regular saw jump- the only difference is how cool it would be to do it backflipping

[UnknownSniper]

Try backflipping with a chainsaw, I'd like to see you chop your own head off in Soldat that way.

[DarkCrusade]

I´d like to see that in the next version of Soldat, not 1.5, but the next one Chainsaw is often a weak weapon if it comes into a struggle with some autos, the sawer dies very easy, because he cant react on the guy with the gun. Just for a example: you run towards somebody with saw while he´s reloading, before you get to him he backflips over you and starts to shoot you .... what do you do then? Backflipping would be nice then, but it fucks up

F12

[p0ppin]

Saws major probs comes from the ping advantage in saw VS saw situations   Anyone with 0 ping can just go in and rape

[Colonel ONeill]

I would like to see something more with chainsaw. I was given this idea because I saw a bug with that

Well, it would be nice if chainsaw could block the knife thrown
While I was playing against a boogiman, I saw him canceling my knife but it maght have been a bug because it seems impossible to do