The word of God

[excruciator]

The question would be where would you draw the line between bad persuasive attempt(t) and the inability to understand reasonable reasonings?(smeg)

[Smegma]

Ah yes, reasonable reasoning, how could I forget that?

Its reasonable to justify your answers by "I just know". As I said, fine, but with this you cannot logically find right or wrong in humans and the distress obtained from life isn't really there. This of course, spurred some of the religious conviction.

Why can't you think about the question before you conclude it to not be reasonable?

[excruciator]

Perhaps. Or Perhaps that his answer is so deep and intelligent that we could not grasp it.
My question stays. Where you draw the line?

[Jewface]

Lock, what i thin k of the vejetarianism is no short of it is being WRONG!

I mean cool jus tink about, if man shuld not ate meat, why are we have canine teeth? Vegetabels are build for being vejetation, not only plants to eat...

[Mangled*]

It's nice to see some healthy debating on the subject for once.... Disregarding the previous post of course...

To this day I still believe the only thing that kept me from painting the wall with my inards was God telling me to hold on. Like everytime I was seriously mulling over the way to do it, a little voice just told me to hang on.  I ended up working it out and getting my mind focused back onto God and not everything around me. I finally beat my depression at about 15-16 fully. I am have had a few instances where the presence of God was just amazingly clear, like my choice to join the military. It was like God ripped off the roof to my house and tossed an "answer rock" at my head.

I found what you said in this post interesting really, your experiences and trials have obviously made God a big part of your life and I can more understand how a spiritual experience can build on faith. I'm not so sure about the whole joining the military thing.... I wouldn't attribute that to divine influence, you're clearly patriotic about your country and perhaps it was more your patriotism that spurred you on to join the military rather than God... Do you feel it is more the concept of God that willed you on? That by attributing your good feelings and experiences to God allowed you to build stronger faith?

Anyway, on the matter at hand. As I said earlier I was divided quite evenly between the two sides of interpretation...

I think on the one hand I think you'd have to be quite ignorant to interpret scripture literally if I may take for example the talking snake from Genesis who tells Eve that eating the apple from the tree will not kill her. If you were to believe literally that there was a talking snake then you're kind of ignoring the fact that snakes don't have the ability to talk and never historically could. - This isn't a great example, I know.

On the other hand I can't understand where the authority comes from to self-interpret scripture... as obviously wrong beliefs can be extrapolated from misinterpretation. As the most obvious example is Islamic Extremists who through their, or someone elses misinterpretation believe that killing non-muslims in suicide attacks (particularly Jews) is what God intended them to do.

You could of course interpret that the talking snake from Genesis is a representation of a person who lies, and the form of the snake and its forked tongue have over hundreds of years because of the Bible been associated with deceit and liars.

[iDante]

A lot of interpretation issues of the bible come from evil people not getting their languages correct. My favorite example:

In Genesis, if you go back to some of the original hebrew texts, and literally translate it into english, it actually says PERIODS OF TIME instead of DAYS. Could be days, or could be billions of years  Therefore, all those people that think that the Earth is 6000 years old are immediately invalidated.

There are countless minor things like that in the bible that are interesting to notice.

[Graham]

To this day I still believe the only thing that kept me from painting the wall with my inards was God telling me to hold on. Like everytime I was seriously mulling over the way to do it, a little voice just told me to hang on.  I ended up working it out and getting my mind focused back onto God and not everything around me. I finally beat my depression at about 15-16 fully. I am have had a few instances where the presence of God was just amazingly clear, like my choice to join the military. It was like God ripped off the roof to my house and tossed an "answer rock" at my head.

I found what you said in this post interesting really, your experiences and trials have obviously made God a big part of your life and I can more understand how a spiritual experience can build on faith. I'm not so sure about the whole joining the military thing.... I wouldn't attribute that to divine influence, you're clearly patriotic about your country and perhaps it was more your patriotism that spurred you on to join the military rather than God... Do you feel it is more the concept of God that willed you on? That by attributing your good feelings and experiences to God allowed you to build stronger faith?

The more I look back the more it seems like God to me. I have always been patriotic and thought highly of the military but absolutely feared going into it, many times I said I would never go unless I was drafted. I was also 300 pounds(mostly fat) at the time, and had no reason to start losing weight.  I honestly had no direction in my life and was putting off making big decisions. When I decided to go into the military everything became clear. It was literally like a light was turned on in a dark room. That being said I honestly don't believe I will stay in it for my entire life. I just believe its just a stepping stone in my life.

[Espadon]

I'm an atheist, or, so I label myself, because religion does not play a role in my life. That being said, my knowledge of religion [esp. the nuances of Christianity] is rather meager, but what I do believe is that, as Gram said before, religion is a personal thing, since, well, that's what faith is. I think what's wrong about religion is when it becomes organized -- sometimes it seems so that one person's image of faith is impressed upon another, and the argument whether it is accepted willfully is rather moot, because in that respect, religion's basis on [taking things on] faith also greatly facilitated to the point that the difference between persuading an unwilling person and indoctrinating a willing person is quite tenuous. Objectively speaking, organized religion in some respects is a brainwashing in that it rewires your brain to think in a way agreeable to the larger whole. This isn't bad conceptually, since I do believe the Bible is a book founded on good intentions [morality codes, etc.] but it can be gruesomely twisted by human interpretations.

On a tangent, fanatics who believe so deeply into religion are a problem, I think, because the religion relies on interpretation, and by slighting changing interpretations, one can twist the meaning of a passage dramatically to suit personal needs, while still referencing a "higher authority." It's something that will be a thorn in the sides of people trying to be objective, since the existence of divinity cannot be proven or disproved.

I think that God is something that... well if he is so omnipotent and omniscient, then he is always with believers and that his home would be in every believers' heart, and the fact that there is a Church would be as if to say... well, I think that the Church is a part of religion that has become somewhat bloated in its function, becoming a business rather instead of just a service to help counsel others in the interpretation of the Bible.

I don't like how many religions try to find believers forcefully. I can understand people passing on a religion to a person that is in some personal crises that needs that 'higher authority' to lend them a hand [technically a placebo effect in my eyes], but I don't think there's anything wrong with me that calls for a total conversion to like, Christianity. Heck, it's the same morals and stuff I practice now, give or take a few, just repackaged under a different brand, haha.

Well, those are my rather ignorant thoughts.

[Smegma]

Perhaps. Or Perhaps that his answer is so deep and intelligent that we could not grasp it.
My question stays. Where you draw the line?

Then why pretend like you can? Henceforth, if we cannot grasp it, why do you think we can extrapolate anything from it. Before you play the ineffable card, think about the results it entails.

My questions are not meant to be persuasive at all, merely to clarify.

[Hair|Trigger]

I just do good to others and it always pays me back tenfold.  Im pretty damn sure there a God.  Its irrelavent to me all the complications of religious faith but im confident I will get there some day

[Psycho]

The more I look back the more it seems like God to me. I have always been patriotic and thought highly of the military but absolutely feared going into it, many times I said I would never go unless I was drafted. I was also 300 pounds(mostly fat) at the time, and had no reason to start losing weight.  I honestly had no direction in my life and was putting off making big decisions. When I decided to go into the military everything became clear. It was literally like a light was turned on in a dark room. That being said I honestly don't believe I will stay in it for my entire life. I just believe its just a stepping stone in my life.

But concider that this happens to alot of people from different religions. They are all 100% convinced that it was their divine being that helped them focus on what they wanted to do.
This also happens for non believers.

I think it has more to do with your relationship with yourself. Your own ability to push trough and do something that you weren't sure of doing. Knowing that you did it all by yourself and have noone else to thank for it, is a nice feeling for many.

[excruciator]

Perhaps. Or Perhaps that his answer is so deep and intelligent that we could not grasp it.
My question stays. Where you draw the line?

Then why pretend like you can? Henceforth, if we cannot grasp it, why do you think we can extrapolate anything from it. Before you play the ineffable card, think about the results it entails.
My questions are not meant to be persuasive at all, merely to clarify.

I can't grasp it. Yet I did not make any comment about the argument being unreasonable/wrong. But you did. So I guess you do know how to draw the line?
How did you do it.

PS.: my question is not rhetorical

Henceforth, if we cannot grasp it, why do you think we can extrapolate anything from it.

the difference between genius and insanity is success. Perhaps his point is crazy/insane, or perhaps it's just pure genius, I am in no position to comment on it. Since you are so sure, why don't you clarify your thought process.

[Smegma]

I can't grasp it. Yet I did not make any comment about the argument being unreasonable/wrong. But you did. So I guess you do know how to draw the line?
How did you do it.

PS.: my question is not rhetorical

I never said it was wrong, I was merely asking. I only said that if that is where you wish to stop, then all opinions are just as valid as yours.

Apparently you are asking for me to draw a line on one of my queries. I wonder how you even began to reference it to another point.

the difference between genius and insanity is success. Perhaps his point is crazy/insane, or perhaps it's just pure genius, I am in no position to comment on it. Since you are so sure, why don't you clarify your thought process.

So, as long as I'm successful I can be a genius? If his point is true, why does God show him truth. If so, then its no longer incomprehensible.
I never said it was wrong, I just said it was illogical.

If the source of knowledge cannot be understood, then how can we justify the knowledge gained from it. If the knowledge gained is understandable, then it is lesser than God. To the point which I said, its just not justified and therefore you COULD be false.

[Smegma]

Christianity is suppose to be a very personal religion. Meaning you need to treat God like a friend that knows a crapload more than you do than a man with the best banhammer ever. Because of that your understanding of the Bible will be a direct result of your relationship with God.

Fine, but how do I know my friend is God?

[Peu]

After agreeing with Espadon almost verbatim, I would add that you can draw the line wherever it's useful, it all depends where you're trying to go.

Personally, I don't see a point in god, considering that most everything the bible professes can be learned or reinvented with a little empathy and intelligence. More so, I can't attribute anything that happens in the world to god because it's incredibly easy to find the merging lines of causality that led an event to happen, from a forest fire to being moved to a decision, to being approved for a loan.

To me, religious belief in any sort of extraneous control and influence from god is most often coupled with reluctance to see those causal lines. I have observed that many of the very religiously devout have found god during some crisis in their lives, when they 'needed' him, he was there.

It's nice to believe that someone else will take care of our problems, that something warm and nurturing and watching and protecting looks out for us, but most likely, the person who was wailing to god for help because they were going bankrupt and homeless and hungry, simply got a dose of life. People get or don't get the loan they've been wanting for that nice house not because they prayed, but because they applied for the loan and got approved maybe because the person who reviewed their case was in a good mood.

The person who approved the loan was in a good mood because... so on...
To me, god's just a bunch of people and things

[Smegma]

So, God is everywhere?

[Mangled*]

If God is everywhere then he is merely a concept.

Even within one religion, if God is self-interpreted then that means there are millions of different people with a different interpretation of what God is and isn't, what he does and does not influence et cetera... How could their 'Gods' possibly all be the same one? Their God is as individual as they are because nobody thinks the same.

With a literal interpretation of God, at least everybody is on the same lines and could possibly be believing in the same God. But would that make him anything more than conceptual?

This is not to say that a concept of God is anything less than a real God.

'The concept of God spurred you on through a hard part of your life.' 'The concept of God gave you strength'. Is that any less powerful than saying the same but with the implication of him being real? Not really.

Surely that's the same difference as between a self-confessed imaginary friend and a friend who is invisible and inaudible and who only you are aware of. Any less profound?

[Smegma]

How could their 'Gods' possibly all be the same one? Their God is as individual as they are because nobody thinks the same.

Because they are only partially correct.

[poopdogg]

There is no GOD.

The word 'GOD' is only created by people.

[Mangled*]

Yes, we've established that "God" is indeed a word and that words are created by people and construct languages by which we communicate.