Experimental M79 in 1.5 beta

[8th_account]

Ahoy.

The problem with M79 from the beta crew's point of view is that it is too easy for a new player to reach a decent enough level of killing capacity - compared to the other weapons' learning curves - to be a force to be reckoned with.

One reason for this "easiness" is that the faster you're moving, the faster and further your fired projectile will travel. For the M79, moving forward at full speed will add about 20% muzzle velocity, and thus as much as 40% range. Granted, this applies for all weapons, but due to M79's low base speed it gets the biggest procentual gain by far. Another reason is that however fast you may be moving, the bullet will always land X distance infront of you, making fireing while moving forward not much different at all from fireing while moving backwards or standing still.

The M79 cannot be nerfed to balance anymore. More nerfs in the form of lowering speed and increasing moveacc and bink will just feck it up for everyone, not specifically the problematic users. One way would be to buff all the other weapons instead, though that would prove to be much harder and would upset this fragile balance that's been fine-tuned for years since version 1.3.

It seems that the only remaining and feasible way to rebalance the M79 is by removing the player's own velocity from the muzzle velocity, as the game worked before 1.2. This would make the learning curve steeper, and would shift a notable part of its offensive capabilities into its defensive capabilities. It would be the perfect anti-noob, anti-rush tweak - In theory.


I have attached an alternative Soldat executable for the 1.5 public beta version. To my knowledge, it's fully compatible with the public beta servers. And if you happen to be alone, you could always play with bots. Just unzip the file into the Soldat folder and run it.

It would require people to relearn the M79, but perhaps in the long run it might be worth it.

So comments?

[blackdevil0742]

I don't have the beta on my computer but the whole idea thing sounds so extream for a weapon with only 1 bullet. If the other weapons benefit from using the player's speed too then why shouldn't it. It all depends what kind of map is anyway and i find the m79 quite balanced. One hit one kill or one miss and get killed.

[LtKillroy]

Although I will probably always be in favor of adding startup time to the M79, this seems like a good alternative. Still will be essentially the same gun in the right hands, but harder.

[mar77a]

Not quite, imo once you get used to it, it's even easier. On the other hand, only proper testing will tell so I'd like to see this added (and then removed ha,ha).

[Hair|Trigger]

I dont know, it might not agree with A LOT of people

But sometimes you need to make an executive decision, either put up with the endless and inevitable whining of those unable to cope with it for the rest of soldat's existence or give the idea a mere 'test run'

I really like the idea, however I have my doubts that M79 will be as fun to use, I mean from what I've used of it, the weapon kinda needs you to be fast on your feet, and this will negate that skill (it would mean you have to be "in range" and there are no range increasing possibilities)

[Nubism]

dont got the beta but everything you wrong looks fine,
i totaly agree with the part that the m79 is 2easy 2use since 1.3
and thats true, its easier from version to version to use the weapon
and thats annoying as hell.

[blackdevil0742]

The only reason why it bothers me so much is that whatever you do, stand still or run it will fly the same length everytime and it will feel so stiff.

[excruciator]

So there will be a chance that you will selfkill while shooting the air? In other words, there is going to be a maximum rush speed for m79 users?

[8th_account]

The M79 fires its projectile at 107 "speed units." A soldat can run at about 20 units and reach a bit over 50 with a great boost. So its pretty much impossible to run into your bullet.

[iDante]

offtopic:
Was the gun in Terminator 2 (the big kaboom gun) an m79?

ontopic:
I like the idea, but I don't think it hits the problem as well as it could. When I go pubbing (rare these days) the good m79ers are usually the ones that take a hit or two while they let you get close to them, then blow you away. The only people this hurts are the rushers, which we want to help (new players need to learn how to move too).

[excruciator]

The M79 fires its projectile at 107 "speed units." A soldat can run at about 20 units and reach a bit over 50 with a great boost. So its pretty much impossible to run into your bullet.

what if you nade boost?

Its a good idea but I don't think it really tackles the problem. Eventhough I do not know what the problem really is.

[STM1993]

offtopic:
Was the gun in Terminator 2 (the big kaboom gun) an m79?

Big kaboom gun? Whatever it is, the Terminator DID use a M79 in some scenes, and it is the weapon that finished off the T-1000.

Hmm, a new change in M79? I guess I'll go test it out later, not much time now.

[BlisterEye]

The M79 fires its projectile at 107 "speed units." A soldat can run at about 20 units and reach a bit over 50 with a great boost. So its pretty much impossible to run into your bullet.

Wrong. I was boosted down the hill on inf_Abel by a team mate while I was firing the el cheapo noob cannon (I really dislike it, to be honest) and landed in FRONT of the damn thing's load. And since I was prone when I got boosted, the only thing I could do was watch it get closer and closer to me..
It was somewhat funny. But it irritated me.
Having said this, I'm for the limitation of the 79; too many "Major" newbies just spamming with 79 everywhere.

[excruciator]

I don't really think it changes that much. Most newbies don't even know how to bunny hop yet they are still able to irritate with m79s.

[STM1993]

Okay, tried out the new M79. Basically everything that 8th has already said.

The new M79 will need a rather different play style in future. It has lost some offensive ability due to lack of range without muzzle velocity, but it has gained more power when running away and shooting. This may encourage users to rush with the M79 less often, and cause more people to use a "move-backwards-and-shoot" tactic, now that the M79 can shoot a longer range when moving backward due to lack of muzzle velocity.

For some reason, I feel that the M79's range when standing still is a little bit longer than normal, I may be wrong about this.

Personally, I think it's easier to use the M79 defensively than offensively. Also, now with fixed bullet speed, it may be possible to blow yourself up if you move too fast (if you got boosted, for example). I believe that the amount of "M79 Noob" may die down a bit (see below for reason).



Ultimately, I think the M79 is still the same gun. It really is the same gun actually, just that now the tactics to use it is different. Nice move to remove the muzzle velocity.

Date Posted: 11 August 2008, 12:19:38Hey 8th (Skoskav),

I was wondering, there would be a beta WITH the 75% bullet push right? I'm dying to try out soon. I can only give the theory that (if Training is used):

DEs are slightly buffed.
MP5 is nerfed quite a lot, because it relies pretty heavily on bullet push.
AK is nerfed quite a bit.
Aug is probably OVER-nerfed - Consider giving it back its 5 ammo.
Spas is seen by most people as a nerf.
M79 is quite hard to tell, but probably buffed.
Barrett is probably buffed a little too much - consider not changing the stats of the Barrett.
Minimi is very hard to tell. Majorly buffed in one sense, yet the bullet push also nerfs it quite a lot.
Minigun is buffed heavily (which is good).
Socom is slightly nerfed.
Knife is hard to tell.
Chainsaw is buffed.
LAW is buffed (BP affects pple trying to get on the ground to shoot it).
Flamer is buffed (now it can charge in more easily).
Rambo Bow and Flamed Arrows are actually buffed.

[iggMaN]

As I am a M79-player, I must say that this change is pretty neat.
I can take a while to get use to, but I do think this upgrade is helping it.
Good work.

[a-4-year-old]

this change won't really change anything, since I can still just run right up someone's ass and blast them from no range.

[ElSpec774]

this change won't really change anything, since I can still just run right up someone's ass and blast them from no range.

As long as the M79 exists, this will never change, although it is a bit harder.

[STM1993]

this change won't really change anything, since I can still just run right up someone's ass and blast them from no range.

That is true. As I said, it's still the same gun, just that the tactics to use it would have some differences. It can still run and "boom", but the fact that the bullet can't travel as fast as before when fired forward forces players to go even closer than needed if they want the M79 to definitely hit.

[SDFilm]

The M79 fires its projectile at 107 "speed units." A soldat can run at about 20 units and reach a bit over 50 with a great boost. So its pretty much impossible to run into your bullet.

what if you nade boost?

Then you deserve to be self-killed IMO. It's the M79 version of mini-surfing- an abuse of the game phisics, and an ability that other wepaons don't have.