Do you believe in god?

[Rasputins Revenge]

Heretics will burn in hell.

[excruciator]

I do agree that all religion gives a sense of purpose and hope. Good enough reason for it to exist, and to not deny the existence of God.

Then why this?

(all blind God believers)

Blind god believers believes that God is real, and deny his inexistence, bash unbelievers, and fuel the war of religion vs science.

I believe God is, well unproven. I think he is just something we created to give us hope and purpose. Unless real God shows up in front of my door step.

[Graham]

So in your mind God(in the sense that he made you, is all powerful, ect.) is only God if he conforms to your standards? You don't see that as a twisted/retarded outlook on it?

[Sir Jeremy]

I Don't Believe in God..God Isn't a name, and It says in the Scripture to call upon His Name.

So I go with the Jewish for Yahweh and Elohim.  Cheers.

And I think we can all feel his presence sometimes xD

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

If you do believe in god, what created god?

Ah, you're thinking from the human perspective, where every effect has a cause, and things can be ordered by when they came into existence.  What you're forgetting is the fact that concept of creation implies a concept of time.  As in, at one point of time something did not exist, and at another point in time, it did.  However, if there is a God, then there's absolutely no reason to assume that it would be bound by time or natural laws.  Why should a God be restrained by the rules in a universe that it created?

Why don't you just say....

Don't ask questions. It is actually much simpler than saying something that does not answer the question, but to tell that the question itself is wrong.

Are you saying that you disagree with my explanation? If so, why? Is there something wrong with my logic as it pertains to omnipotent beings?

Is your only problem with the existence of a God the fact that such a being would have to defy human description and comprehension by definition? If so, what possible justification do you have for saying "Things I can't comprehend can't exist"?

EDIT: Perhaps an example would help.  Let's say I told you that I just read about these trippy shapes called tesseracts in some book.  You say, "Sounds good.  Can you draw a picture for me?"  Of course, I'd reply that I couldn't.  You'd then say, "Well can you describe what one looks like?" I'd say something like, "Well...it's kind of like a cube...but instead of squares, each side is its own cube....and they're all connected...I really can't explain it; it's four dimensional! I can't even visualize it, so how can I talk about it?"  Of course, you'd say, "You can't explain it...so what you're really saying is that I should believe in tesseracts, even though there's no way I'll ever be able to see or comprehend one? Clearly, tesseracts are fictional."  You'd be wrong, but hey, you have to see something to believe in it, right?

[Shadow G-Unit]

If you do believe in god, what created god?

Ah, you're thinking from the human perspective, where every effect has a cause, and things can be ordered by when they came into existence.  What you're forgetting is the fact that concept of creation implies a concept of time.  As in, at one point of time something did not exist, and at another point in time, it did.  However, if there is a God, then there's absolutely no reason to assume that it would be bound by time or natural laws.  Why should a God be restrained by the rules in a universe that it created?

Why don't you just say....

Don't ask questions. It is actually much simpler than saying something that does not answer the question, but to tell that the question itself is wrong.

Are you saying that you disagree with my explanation? If so, why? Is there something wrong with my logic as it pertains to omnipotent beings?

Is your only problem with the existence of a God the fact that such a being would have to defy human description and comprehension by definition? If so, what possible justification do you have for saying "Things I can't comprehend can't exist"?

I think this completely defeats excruciator's arguement in my opinion. Really, I don't know why I'm posting here, but I am going to have to side with Graham and Gamer. If you haven't taken your time to read the Bible, I don't see why you would bother saying, "oohh I will believe in God if He's right at my doorstep." I will believe you if you disprove everything the Bible has to say. It explains why God doesn't appear to us in being in Genesis. I am not a hardcore Christian, but I know enough to prove to some of you God is truly working in my life. You might not see it because you're "vision" is distorted or you're just ignorant.

EDIT: I just reread Gamer's post. Ah, the human perspective is fascinating. Tell me, what are the limits of science excructiator? Of course there is a limit and why I don't believe the bulls*it of evolution is that, the theory of evolution states that we came from one celled organisims which mysteriously got here by comets, and the comets just came from somewhere else...and so on. Science and Darwin basically states that we are related to fishes, ofcourse that's true because they evolved from that living cell and we did too. As humans we will never know everything, how time began, but all I do is believe. Some people have different beliefs, but I can relate to Graham. I'm tired it's 1AM so some might seem out of place.

[Dascoo]

Christianity? I liked it better when it was called Zoroastrianism!

[The Geologist]

Please, go to bed.  'cause evolution is quite a bit more than that, which is not what this topic is about.  

[Lord Jaws]

I think the universe is to specific put together to place it as evolution, and I believe an intelligent designer had to come in place there. Examples:

The earth rotates at a speed of 106.000 kilometers pro hour around the sun. If the speed would be less the earth would be pulled towards the sun, and if less it would fade away, both conditions, life impossible on our planet.

And then le law's of phisic, like gravity, sound, light, heat.

And what about electromagnetism. If that would be weaker atoms would fly apart, and stronger they would swarm together.


I mean, I could go on about this for pages! I do not believe this is all just sort of cooincidence. . .

[iDante]

I don't believe the bulls*it of evolution is that, the theory of evolution states that we came from one celled organisims which mysteriously got here by comets, and the comets just came from somewhere else...and so on.

Natural selection: Relies on a couple of truths, 1: more offspring are produced than can survive (Malthus), the offspring that are better suited to their environment will have a higher chance of survival (some random scientist, my bio teacher would kill me for forgetting).
Therefore, its survival of the fittest (without the anarchist conotations).
Example: if you put bacteria in some antibiotics, and one of them happens to have resistance to it (by a mutation or other reasons) then it and its offspring will have a better chance of survival.

Evolution: Over millions of years natural selection has essentially "bred" us into what we are today.

There is nothing in the bible that denies evolution, or says that the world is 6thousand some years old.

[nub]

That's wrong. If it was this way, then we'd still stone homosexuals and adulterers to death.

You seem to be forgetting the part of the bible that says "thou shalt not kill".

This is related to the Jews and people worshipping god. That's why god orders them to commit the genocide on the Canaanites, who were heretics.

Date Posted: August 07, 2008, 05:39:21 am

There is nothing in the bible that denies evolution, or says that the world is 6thousand some years old.

That's wrong. Read genesis.If you assume that the bible is true you could derive the age of the earth and universe by summing up the ages of the prophets and kings of the old testament. That's actually what young earth creationists are doing.

[Lord Jaws]

The Bible does denie evolution. It says so in the very first chapters!

But it's treu that the world isn't created in just 6 days. . . (my point of view that is)

And speaking of natural selection. If humans would be a product of evolution, explain the emotion compassion will you. . .

[Flamingo]

Topic begins about what every person should but some ignorant dicks are trying not to just to be cool

topic ends with a lousy theory which people made their belief of

[nub]

And speaking of natural selection. If humans would be a product of evolution, explain the emotion compassion will you. . .

Does compassion contradict evolution? Compassion helps us to be better social beings.

[Mittsu]

I can understand you believing in some higher power above everything. And let's call it God. But what makes you believe in the way your religion defines Him? You just think "oh, they might be right" and live according to what they say (going to church weekly, praying, paying and singing some songs)? I don't like doing things i'm not sure about. And it has nothing to do with ignorance.

[Flamingo]

paying

No.

[sai`ke]

Any question with why can always be rephrased or dug into further with another question starting with why.

Science does not have the answers either. All it does is objectively try to describe what we see around us and base conclusions by using laws that were experimentally or mathematically determined to predict things we cannot see or that have already passed. In this sense, science is not that unlike a religion, because often heavy assumptions need to be made to obtain these laws, and often new experiments disprove the current state of knowledge. Science does not answer the question why, because once you keep asking questions, you will eventually cross the border into philosophy.

Religion is based on traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as 'faith'.  Science and religion do not mutually exclude each other even though various things in religious writings have since been falsified.

Both aim to find a higher objective truth and both don't have all the answers \o/.

As for the question at hand. Spinoza's God for the win.

[Magus86]

hmm... so nobody's gonna try and answer any of my questions? that figures... Nobody ever has an answer, and that's why I'm not a christian. That, and the fact that a shinyfooload of them don't even practice what they preach, but that's another story...

Religion and science are born out of the same thing: The desire to explain and understand the world around us. I go with science over religion because science tells me things that can actually be proven. When science finds that it was previously incorrect, it changes. Because they realize that they've made a mistake.

Religion, on the other hand, does not tell me anything that can actually be proven. Religion expects me to believe in things that I cannot observe. Religion does not, at least from my observation, retract statements and change what is commonly preached/believed. Religion specifically asks for my blind faith, and I'm not willing to give it. On top of that, Religion has no explanation whatsoever for certain things. As far as I remember, the bible does not mention dinosaurs because people had not yet discovered their fossils at the time when the bible was written. When certain religious people were asked about the fossils we've found and the lack of them ever being mentioned, the response was that the fossils were put here by God to test our faith. Somehow I just don't buy that. On one hand, we're supposed to believe without any evidence. Then when we find a hole in the information, we're told he's testing us... So he wants us to believe in him, but he's going to do things to make us think he and his followers are full of shinyfoo. If he's all powerful and all knowing, I'd imagine he'd be intelligent enough to figure out that doing such things only hurts his cause... If he doesn't, then he does not have logic, and therefore is not all-knowing.

There was a time in which I was a christian, because I was raised to be a christian. Then of my own free will, I went to "good news club," which was an afterschool thing on wednesday or thursday where we would sit around, read the bible, and discuss religion. I asked to be saved and all that BS. Nothing ever felt different. no prayers were ever answered. I never felt a presence. NOTHING. Everything was just as it had always been. Aside from that, I noticed conflicts within the bible itself, conflicts among rules, and things that simply didn't make any sense. I started asking questions, and I have yet to receive an actual answer to any question. So I do not believe. I've tried as hard as I can to believe, but with no evidence to back anything up, I have no choice but to stop believing. Like I said earlier, you wouldn't believe everything that comes out of my mouth without one shred of evidence, yet you expect me to do the same and even go so far as to question my intellect if I do not. That's one hell of a double standard.

Science might not have all the answers, but at least scientists are able to say "I don't know" instead of giving us some completely BS response. And if they have an idea, they call it a theory. A theory is not the same thing as a fact, and it is not presented as a fact.

[nub]

In this sense, science is not that unlike a religion, because often heavy assumptions need to be made to obtain these laws, and often new experiments disprove the current state of knowledge.

And where does religion do that? I mean it took the Catholic church hundreds of years to acknowledge that the earth is round. And recently the pope ordered 2000 new exorcists to be trained. This doesn't look much like disproving the current state of knowledge.

Religion is based on traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as 'faith'.

You just said why science and religion _do_ contradict each other.

[tehsnipah]

I believe in God, because it fecking burned my neck with a soup somehow spilling over my shoulder in church -_-. But seriously, I do believe in him. Because if there were no god, why would Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, and other religions pray and have a ceremony?