Do you believe in god?

[R]

The more secularism spread the more depression, suicide, crime, ect has spread.

Also, I would love to see your source on that.  Atheism has been linked to a higher average level of intelligence among societies.

And to your point that atheists and religious people all kill because they're human, thats pretty much right, except for the fact that atheists have much more to lose than religious people do.  Atheists have one life to live, so why would they waste it committing crimes only to be imprisoned or to start wars only to be killed in them and lose your one chance at life, whereas religious people have the afterlife to look forward to.

If anything, atheism would allow people to appreciate the life they are living more than they would since it is their only life, instead of living it as a path to the afterlife.

[LtKillroy]

I'll tell you what Magus, you say a flaw in the logic, we will try to comment on it. As for homosexuality, I believe it is a sin and not natural, but to be gay and instantly sent to hell? Of course not. Everyone sins, that one is no better or worse than any others. (Sorry catholics, bible says so)

[Graham]

The more secularism spread the more depression, suicide, crime, ect has spread.

Also, I would love to see your source on that.  Atheism has been linked to a higher average level of intelligence among societies.

And to your point that atheists and religious people all kill because they're human, thats pretty much right, except for the fact that atheists have much more to lose than religious people do.  Atheists have one life to live, so why would they waste it committing crimes only to be imprisoned or to start wars only to be killed in them and lose your one chance at life, whereas religious people have the afterlife to look forward to.

If anything, atheism would allow people to appreciate the life they are living more than they would since it is their only life, instead of living it as a path to the afterlife.

I don't have proof and don't care to find it, thought I honestly don't doubt I could. It's just something that a friend mention, I pondered and I now agree on.

Neither atheists nor Christians respect their lives more than the other, they just respect it in different ways. However you are not really pulling into factor here that in reality nothing but will to follow rules set by society really issue a reason to be a good person. I am not saying every atheists is some baby-stomper I am just saying they really only have to do what they think is justifiable. The flip side of that is that its easy to justify, even if you are clearly in the wrong.(Even Christians do this.) Which goes back to to my point on people being generally selfish in their thoughts.

[R]

And people are in their vary nature selfish due to evolution. 

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

That's not very descriptive... I don't know how you get a dinosaur out of that, or ANYTHING other than a non-descript bigass animal that eats a lot and has a big tail.

Name ONE animal with a big tail that's not a dinosaur.

How do you know homosexuality is a choice? I'm heterosexual, but I didn't wake up one day and DECIDE to be attracted to females. That's just the way it is, so I would imagine it would be about the same for a homosexual.  And even if it is a choice, so what? Why is it wrong to make somebody else feel good? Why were we given the ability to feel pleasure during sex if that pleasure is bad? How could it possibly be bad? What's the harm in that? I can understand things like "don't kill," "don't steal," and "don't lie," but... Don't suck another guy's dick? Don't eat another girl's pussy? Why not?

Context pl0x.  I know that I made the same argument as you, so this can't be directed at me.  Who are you trying to convince?
EDIT: Oh snap, I just read what you posted beyond the first two lines, so naturally I have to respond.  Of course sex is pleasurable.  It's a great gift from God when used properly.  But the thing is, there's more to sex than the physical aspect.  Think about it: What's the most valuable thing you can trust someone with? It's your body.  The level of emotional intimacy that should be present before engaging in sex is almost off the charts.  You're each working together to ensure that your partner is feeling the best they physically can, and with that comes all of the intimacy that I mentioned earlier.  But once you start having more than one partner, there's no way you can duplicate that intimacy.  It's like pouring a pitcher of water into multiple glasses.  You'll always pour less into multiple glasses than you can pour into a single one, and similarly, you'll never have the same emotional bond with multiple people that you will with one.  You'll never have the same emotional bond with a person of the same gender as you will with a person of the opposite gender.  The Bible refers to it as "becoming one flesh," and that's essentially what sex and marriage is: two people sharing one life, with their different qualities complementing the other's.

If I was god, and I created and intelligent animal whom I've given the ability to use logic and reason, as well as the desire to question things and better understand, you can bet your ass I'd have given a better explanation than "cuz I said so." That's interesting, because god seems to have certain flaws we can observe in humans.

If all of God's commands were good for us, then what's the significance of obeying him? Sure, we're doing what he wants, but we're also doing it because it benefits us.  True obedience comes when obeying God is the ONLY reason for our actions.  And what flaws are you referring to?

If we truly have free will, then why are there consequences? And consider this... if it's a sin to not worship god, and if you never know about god, believe in him, pray to him, and sacrifice your life to him, and you'll go to hell as a result of not doing these things... what of the people who have never heard of god? Do you mean to tell me that every single fish, dog, hamster, cat, rat, alligator, chimpanzee, cockatoo, etc.... EVERY SINGLE ANIMAL goes to hell? Oh wait, that's right. they don't have souls. They're not humans, so it would only make sense that we would consider them unimportant. Plus there's the whole "language" barrier thing going on. Since we can't try and push our beliefs on dogs, they don't get to have a soul.

Hoo boy.  Can't tell if you're trolling or just ignorant of Christian beliefs.  It's easy for evolutionists to say, "Why don't animals have souls? After all, they came into existence the same way humans did."  That's part of the reason why it's difficult for Christians to accept evolution.  There's absolutely no reason for humans to be special in any way if evolution is true.  On the other hand, if we're made in God's image, like the Bible says, then there IS a reason for God to consider us special, and there IS a reason for humans to get into heaven while animals don't.

As for the free will part, of course there are going to be consequences.  Free will doesn't mean that no matter what you do, the result is the same.  In fact, that's the opposite of free will.  Do consequences influence decisions? Of course.  Do they force people to do good? Apparently not.

And finally, I honestly don't know what happens to people who've never heard of God.  It's just as hard for me as it is for you to think that they're getting the shaft, but I'm not sure what else can happen.  Rules are rules; if God made exceptions, then Jesus would be lying when he said, "I am the way, the truth, and the light; no one comes to the Father except through me."

[frogboy]

cba reading all this shinyfoo but

The more secularism spread the more depression, suicide, crime, ect has spread.

this is the same view that pretty much every modern ultraconservative group i can think of holds.

also

Believing that nothing exploded and created everything?

i think you deliberately worded that awkwardly to make it seem absurd. besides, it's a mathematical model to help understand, not an absolute truth.

[chutem]

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[BondJamesBond]

WARNING SUPPLIED ARGUMENT IS NOT VALID

[chutem]

Why does it always have to be an argument.

[Flamingo]

No, I don't think we have men and women because someone couldn't be "arsed" to create another. That doesn't even make any sense. It would require more work to make something different from the original. And I don't think anything created us anyway... Let me ask you this though... Do you honsetly believe that eve was created from adam's rib? Do you honestly believe that it is eve's fault that they both got kicked out of the garden?

GOD SAYS IT HIMSELF JUST LOOK RIGHT THERE IN THE BOOK YOU YOU DOUBLE ATHEIST

[nub]

Well except for if they are non believers ... according to the bible...

Howabout you find me a passage in the bible (that wasn't later refuted by jesus) that says that we should kill non-believers? Go on!

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.  - Luke 19,27

And even if you don't like the methods of that guy, there is still the fact that there are more christians in prisons than atheists (see second article).

Date Posted: August 08, 2008, 06:18:20 am

I don't have proof and don't care to find it, thought I honestly don't doubt I could. It's just something that a friend mention, I pondered and I now agree on.

Uh you must be christian lvl 100 or something.

[frogboy]

assuming it's american, that's probably because way more people identify themselves as christians than atheists. there's more christians than muslims in prison too, but that doesn't mean that one is necessarily more "criminal" than the other.

e:my bad, looked up the article and it's british. which is still only 30-40% atheist apparently.

[nub]

Still this doesn't explain why secular places have smaller crime rates than religious ones.

[Smegma]

Still this doesn't explain why secular places have smaller crime rates than religious ones.

Are these people in one place the same people (with exception of religious beliefs) as the people in the other place?

I don't have proof and don't care to find it, thought I honestly don't doubt I could. It's just something that a friend mention, I pondered and I now agree on.

Uh you must be christian lvl 100 or something.

So, you can prove to me with certainty that your beliefs hold true?

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

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Are you suggesting we post off-topic?

[Graham]

And people are in their vary nature selfish due to evolution. 

Evolution deals mainly with physical adaptation, not mental state if I remember correctly.

[nub]

Still this doesn't explain why secular places have smaller crime rates than religious ones.

Are these people in one place the same people (with exception of religious beliefs) as the people in the other place?

So you'd only accept it if those people were cloned? I guess no one would have a problem if someone said that crime correlates with poverty. But when studies show that crime also correlates with religion, everyone is pissed off because that's completely the opposite of what the priest told them in church.

I don't have proof and don't care to find it, thought I honestly don't doubt I could. It's just something that a friend mention, I pondered and I now agree on.

Uh you must be christian lvl 100 or something.

So, you can prove to me with certainty that your beliefs hold true?

If you just open your eyes I wont have to prove anything. By your standards people can believe in any random thing like an invisible unicorn no human can ever see or hear... I'm not against freedom of religion but I like pointing out to people that their beliefs are retarded.

It is also important to point this out because while the pope lets 2000 new exorcists being trained, and thus supports the belief in witches and demons, christians in Nigeria burn unwanted children by declaring them witches and referring to the bible which commands people to kill witches. The catholic priests earn money by doing expulsions. And what does the Vatican do?

As I said before, atheists are less likely to behave irrational. And no one has proved me wrong so far. And I am the only one here who is actually doing something to backup his claims. 

[Smegma]

So you'd only accept it if those people were cloned? I guess no one would have a problem if someone said that crime correlates with poverty. But when studies show that crime also correlates with religion, everyone is pissed off because that's completely the opposite of what the priest told them in church.

Who said I didn't have a problem with saying poverty and crime correlate?

If you just open your eyes I wont have to prove anything. By your standards people can believe in any random thing like an invisible unicorn no human can ever see or hear... I'm not against freedom of religion but I like pointing out to people that their beliefs are retarded.

It is also important to point this out because while the pope lets 2000 new exorcists being trained, and thus supports the belief in witches and demons, christians in Nigeria burn unwanted children by declaring them witches and referring to the bible which commands people to kill witches. The catholic priests earn money by doing expulsions. And what does the Vatican do?

As I said before, atheists are less likely to behave irrational. And no one has proved me wrong so far. And I am the only one here who is actually doing something to backup his claims.

You must be a lvl 100 athiest.

Unfortunately, its not about who can prove you wrong.

[excruciator]

And people are in their vary nature selfish due to evolution. 

Evolution deals mainly with physical adaptation, not mental state if I remember correctly.

Without hardware, how can there be software?

[Smegma]

Greed isn't attributed to evolution, merely what works. Evolution doesn't give us the traits, the traits make us survive.

JUST OPEN YOUR EYES SEE!?