Soldat Ds?

[djgman]

*mockup, not real image*

Wow I haven't been here in ages...
Hello everyone, I've been playing around with the idea of soldat for the nds in my head for the past couple of days. I'm just wondering what the official soldat community thought of it along with the people designing the PC version. I thought up a pretty manageable control scheme for the game which aiming the angle of the gun is just using the stylus to rotate the gun on the bottom screen. The d pad could be used the same as aswd on the computer and the player could double tap the top and bottom D-pad buttons for crouching and using the jet boots. I've got all kinds of ideas flying in my head and I was wondering of any of you could have other input on whether or not this would be a plausible project or not. I'm also wondering if the ds could handle all the rendering of the levels and the bullets/bullet shells/blood/explosions, along with using the nds wifi. The library I'm going to end up using if there is enough support for the project is the PAlib library, but I already posted a topic about this on the forum over there and there wasn't much interest. So yeah, just wanted to start a little brainstorm over here and see what people think and listen to any ideas you all could come up with.

controls ideas:
abxy or dpad: for movement depending on writing hand.
Gun on the bottom screen: to rotate the gun angle and shot range.
L OR R: for shooting.
Start: main menu

Bottom screen buttons:
NADE: switches from gun to grenade mode(changes L and R to throwing grenades)
WEP: switches to secondary weapon(holding WEP throws your weapon)
REL: reloads your weapon.
CHAT: brings up bottom screen keyboard with options for team chat and regular chat

[UnknownSniper]

It's been 'suggested' Here
I myself think it is a bad idea and will never happen.

[djgman]

Wow that's a horrible screen setup...
how on earth would you move the cursor?

But yeah, I am a programmer and it will happen if I get enough support to program it and the original creators are ok with it.

[Twistkill]

* Twistkill lols at the chances of this happening.

[Thinkto urself]

Wow that's a horrible screen setup...
how on earth would you move the cursor?

But yeah, I am a programmer and it will happen if I get enough support to program it and the original creators are ok with it.

You can make a NDS game yourself, I'm not sure how, but the intarwabz should have a program to make .nds files that work. It's been done with the Java game, "Endless sand," So I can see it happening.

[djgman]

Umm... well I already program for the ds using the PAlib library, so I don't really need to search said "intarwabz" for that info. Also there is no "chance" in this, I'm trying to get ideas and comments on it beforehand so I don't waste my time programming something that people aren't going to play.

[.Long-Range]

aiming would be extremely hard with a DS since you would need your right hand to aim with the stylus on the touch screen and then your left hand on the D-pad for movement.

[djgman]

I don't see how it would be any harder than using a mouse really. It's also interchangeable with left handed people by using the abxy buttons for the dpad. Now obviously the bottom screen couldn't cover the aiming area that you could be using for say... the barret in the sniping mode. But I figure a way to compensate for it would be the as you move the stylus further away from the center of the gun on the bottom screen it would incrementally add a little more to the cursor x and y on the top screen.

[jrgp]

Not going to ever happen (read the stickies); the creator of Soldat has said that it will never be ported to a console. It's just...impossible. Reasons why:

• Soldat exclusively uses Microsoft's DirectX for graphics, which the DS doesn't support.
• Soldat is written in Borland Delphi which most likely does not have a compiler to make a binary for whatever processor and operating system the DS uses
• In the DS' case, it has extremely low specs. (I think like 10MHZ processor and a few megs of ram, the last time I looked.) That wouldn't support Soldat at all.
• In order to make a game for a console, you need the console's SDK, which you have to get a contract for which will cost a shitload of cash.

Sorry for being a killjoy, but you've gotta except this realization.

[djgman]

I'll just bold my arguments against your bullets. Eventually I can get more than "u can't do it hurrr" comments in here...

   * Soldat exclusively uses Microsoft's DirectX for graphics, which the DS doesn't support.

Well first of all it's not going to use soldat's actual source code. It will be coded from the ground up.

    * Soldat is written in Borland Delphi which most likely does not have a compiler to make a binary for whatever processor and operating system the DS uses

See above post.

    * In the DS' case, it has extremely low specs. (I think like 10MHZ processor and a few megs of ram, the last time I looked.) That wouldn't support Soldat at all.

The ds has two arm9 processors and over 4mb of on board RAM. That's more than enough resources to build a soldat client with.

    * In order to make a game for a console, you need the console's SDK, which you have to get a contract for which will cost a pooload of cash.

Wrong again, there are already two(or more) programming libraries made for programming the nds, which are libNDS and PAlib. libNDS was built similar to the Codewarrior SDK by the nds homebrew community and PAlib was built on top of the libNDS library.

Sorry for being a killjoy, but you've gotta except this realization.
*accept.

[EnEsCe]

So in other words your just wanting to make a clone of Soldat, though it wont actually be Soldat.

Bound to fail like the 50 other people who've tried it; but you can try ofcourse. Good luck

[jrgp]

djgman,

 -- Well first of all it's not going to use soldat's actual source code. It will be coded from the ground up.

MM said he won't port the code to Linux, which requires rewriting all of it from the ground up using OpenGL instead of DirectX. He said he won't ever do that, why would he do the same thing for a console game?

 -- The ds has two arm9 processors and over 4mb of on board RAM. That's more than enough resources to build a soldat client with.

sigh...

- A PC, a keyboard, a mouse, a brain
- 333mhz processor
- Video accelerator that can run Direct3D
- Graphics card compatible with DirectX 8.1
- 32 MB RAM
- Some free MB on disk
- Sound card
- Network card or modem
- Microsoft Windows 98/Me/2000/XP
- Microsoft DirectX 8.1

 -- Wrong again, there are already two(or more) programming libraries made for programming the nds, which are libNDS and PAlib. libNDS was built similar to the Codewarrior SDK by the nds homebrew community and PAlib was built on top of the libNDS library.

What? So you don't want Soldat to be a game cartridge you buy for the DS? You want it to be something that nerds have to patch their DS with and download onto it?

[djgman]

@enesce

Not a clone essentially. It would have the same graphics, sounds, gameplay, and setup as the pc version. Only real changes I would implement if possible would be a level editor and a gostek editor for it since the resources wouldn't be as openly editable as the PC version is.

@jrgp
I think you might want to actually read this topic. It's not MM who will do the programming, it will be me. (That is if he doesn't wanna help  )

and those manual specs won't have any effect on this since... well, it's not for pc...

Also the whole cartidge thing is wrong. I'm pretty sure this can't be a download play game... actually I'm positive of it just because of the complexity. If people wanted to play they would just need to buy a flash cart like an m3, cycloDS,r4,etc and run it like any other homebrew. If people don't want to buy a nds flash cart they can also run it in an emulator, but it kinda defeats the purpose. One good thing about running it in an emulator would be that it would be loads easier on people on linux.

[jrgp]

You seem to be completely unaware of how much time, work, and money this would take. Do you have any prior game development? Any programming knowledge at all? You'll need to design the netcode, map parsers, lobby server, Soldat dedicated server, graphics engine, sound engine, and a bunch of other stuff. (millions of lines of code, why don't you read up on game development, why don't you?)

No, you can't use Soldat's existing lobby and server since they are meant for the "real" closed source Soldat, not some weirdo clone which won't make it.

"and those manual specs won't have any effect on this since... well, it's not for pc..."
Doesn't matter if you want to keep all of Soldat's speed, visuals, and sounds.

Oh, and you can't use MM's sounds or graphics without MM's permission.

"One good thing about running it in an emulator would be that it would be loads easier on people on linux. "
...
Do you look around at all? Have you even noticed this gigantic thread about getting Soldat to work on Linux through the Wine emulator?

[chutem]

jrgp, I think you've been beaten.

Just, Djgman, it probably won't 'feel' the same as normal soldat, unless you get the gravity to work exactly the same and stuff like that. But I have a feeling that you will be able to do this.

[djgman]

Ugh... dude seriously you have no idea what you're talking about.


You seem to be completely unaware of how much time, work, and money this would take. Do you have any prior game development? Any programming knowledge at all? You'll need to design the netcode, map parsers, lobby server, Soldat dedicated server, graphics engine, sound engine, and a bunch of other stuff. (millions of lines of code, why don't you read up on game development, why don't you?)

I know how much time it takes to make a game, I've been doing it for 4 years. Homebrew doesn't cost anything. No, it won't be millions of lines of code. I program in c/c++.

No, you can't use Soldat's existing lobby and server sense they are meant for the "real" Soldat, not some weirdo clone which won't make it.

It won't use  the existing lobby as I'll be designing my own server and client for it.

"and those manual specs won't have any effect on this since... well, it's not for pc..."
Doesn't matter if you want to keep all of Soldat's speed, visuals, and sounds.

the game will be the same regardless.

Oh, and you can't use MM's sounds or graphics without MM's permission

That's why I made this topic for his input and input from the community

"One good thing about running it in an emulator would be that it would be loads easier on people on linux. "
...
Do you look around at all? Have you even noticed this gigantic thread about getting Soldat to work on Linux through the Wine emulator?

I meant running it in a nds emulator like IDeaS or NDSESUME...

@chutem
I'm pretty sure I can get the physics very close to the pc version with time, so there is no reason worry there.

[jrgp]

"I know how much time it takes to make a game, I've been doing it for 4 years. Homebrew doesn't cost anything. No, it won't be millions of lines of code. I program in c/c++. "

To make what kind of a game? A pacman clone? You saying you program in c/c++ doesn't help your case at all since those two languages usually use a lot more code than alternatives to accomplish the same exact task, with the benifit of speed and efficiency.

[djgman]

A pacman clone would take about 200-300 lines of C at the most to make.
Delphi was built on top of c/c++ and has to be interpreted through it. The nds typically doesn't use interprated languages like delphi or java because they take up too much processing power. 

[jrgp]

A pacman clone would take about 200-300 lines of C at the most to make.
Delphi was built on top of c/c++ and has to be interpreted through it. The nds typically doesn't use interprated languages like delphi or java because they take up too much processing power. 

So, you're saying what...?

[djgman]

C is a low level language.
Dephi is an interpreted language.

Dephi was built to give more ease to the programmer rather than the hardware.

Can we get back on topic now please?

[jrgp]

C is a low level language.
Dephi is an interpreted language.

Dephi was built to give more ease to the programmer rather than the compiler.

Yes? That is true. Soldat would have taken a lot more code if it was written in C or C++? What is your point? This means that you'll have to make around triple the lines of code to make a Soldat clone in something like C or C++.

A pacman clone would take about 200-300 lines of C at the most to make.
Delphi was built on top of c/c++ and has to be interpreted through it. The nds typically doesn't use interprated languages like delphi or java because they take up too much processing power. 

So, you're saying what...?

I knew what you were saying, I was asking how that pertains to your portage of Soldat to the DS.

[chutem]

Why does the game need to use both screens?

You could just play and move + look around by dragging the stylus around the top screen. No need to make the game too complicated by using both screens. I also noticed, you didn't include anything for jets.

And jrgp, stop arguing, your nor really making any sense. Go back, and read what he said, maybe then you will understand what he was saying.

[djgman]

Well on the nds, only the bottom screen is a touch screen.
I was considering using the bottom screen only but the stylus would make it a little too easy to hit people because you could just follow thier character with the stylus on the screen

I did mention the jet boots in my first post, I just forgot to list them in the list there.
The jet boots would be activated by tapping up on the D-pad twice. The same will be for lieing down in which you press down twice to lie down.

@jrgp

I honestly have no idea where you are going with this...
try using google or something if you have any questions about C vs. delphi or whatever.

[jrgp]

@jrgp

I honestly have no idea where you are going with this...
try using google or something if you have any questions about C vs. delphi or whatever.

I'm not talking about the language..

Bound to fail like the 50 other people who've tried it; but you can try ofcourse. Good luck

I'm giving reasons for what EnEsCe said^ You seem to have completely ignored his post yet he is one of the main Soldat developers and knows this stuff better than a lot of people here.

[djgman]

He is talking about people trying to make clones of soldat (I'm guessing people that use gamemaker or MMfusion or people posting things like "LOL GUYS LETS PORT SOLDAT TO XBOX DUDES!1!!"). In which this isn't a clone. While it is not a port either. It's just soldat. I also didn't completely ignore his post like you say, I gave a perfectly valid reason for what I'm doing after his post. So please stop nitpicking just for the sake of trying to prove me wrong.

[jrgp]

Get going then. Maybe you could use these controls?

*pulls out ds*

D-Pad - equivalent of ASD on a normal keyboard.
A - Switch Weapons
L - Jets
X - Shoot

Stylus + lower screen: Go through menus and control the cursor.
 

[Boots]

Stupid idea, good luck.

[djgman]

[.Long-Range]

i still don't understand how one would be able to shoot while aiming the stylus on touch screen while other hand is on d-pad. explain to me cuz i be confused

[djgman]

The L or R buttons would fire in the weapon.

[.Long-Range]

ohh so then your hand can still be on the d-pad and you'll have access to the left bumper i get it : D

[Blue-ninja]

The control setup, including the idea of using the touchpad to change weapons, change to grenade, among other things, reminds me of a mixture between the AWDS' Battlescreen, where you control a single unit, moving around the map with either controls, and using the touchscreen to aim and fire....and the other is that the control setup for the touchscreen reminds me of New! Super Mario Bros., where you can select a item stored, or select a map, or quit a current level.

Sorry for the long paragraph sentence.

[mxyzptlk]

If you work hard on it, it will work, but only if you work HARD. This will not be a cakewalk, not something you do in one or two weeks. This will likely take YEARS. Take it from someone with ambitions and ideas but little talent, be sure you know what you are getting into, and don't stop working.

Good luck and godspeed.

[Stealth]

Well, I for one would be behind you all the way if you were to start it. The DS should be more than capable of playing a well-made Soldat clone (since its not a port, and its not the original, technically its still a clone, even if its not a crappy one made in GM or MMF ).

I had actually drawn up some stuff for a SoldatDS game. My controls were:
D-Pad: Moves (Prone: Double Tap Down, Jet: Double Tap Up)
Grenade: Double tap screen.
Throw Flag: Quick Down+Up
Aiming: Touchscreen
Shoot: L Trigger

And obviously you flip the buttons for lefties.

I think it'd be more fun if you coded with the liblobby for Ad-hoc multiplayer, instead of using ndswifi for online play, but that's just my opinion, don't know if the limitation still exists where you have to have one or the other. 8 player ad-hoc would rock!

In my sketch I had the gameplay on the bottom screen, so you see directly what you are aiming at, but I think I like your idea of the gun angle better. Also, in mine I used the top screen to show all the main info about health, jet, and ammo (of both weapons). I also thought it'd be cool to have a "pulse" pumping on the top of screen according to your player's health. It would get red and fast on low health, and a normal green when full.

The Soldat map specification is open, and it'd be cool if you could code something so we could just use the current maps instead of recreating them for the DS. However, scaling them down might be necessary.

If RAM ever becomes an issue, you could always add support for Slot-2 Ram. Would allow some big maps, and maybe more bots (if you plan on adding single player).

I think the first hurdles would be your skeletal/physics engine, then getting the map engine working. Seeing as how the Soldat graphics are so small, you could just use those resources before making your own sprites (if you need to at all). I sure hope you can pull it off! 

[djgman]

Yeah I came up with the basically the same control sceme on my first post but I added the buttons on the touchscreen to make up for the lack of buttons usable on the ds. I'll probably end up using liblobby because the newest update to palib has it built in. I never thought of the slot-2 ram idea though, might be worth looking into.

[miketh2005]

Most of the ideas on this thread are the same as mine, djgman, I would like to help you make this thing, I am a game story writer and I come up with great ideas! I would like to work together with you on this, also I have a decent amount of money coming in so that we can make this a commercial game, not for money but because, honestly, i don't thik you'll get crap with a homebrew game, 1st of all, not many people at all have a flashcard (I have a Cyclo, and please don't EVER say R4 in a post, lol, that flashcard is out dated and full with clones, don't let a newbie take your word for it and they'll end up buying a R4 clone (R4 SDHC, N5, etc.)) considering how many people actually HAVE a DS and how many people have a flashcard, its not very much at all, just look at Worms Open Warfare, sometimes it takes me 5 minutes just to find someone on WiFi, even tho it has great multi-player....even though Soldat would prob be the best homebrew / multiplayer around and you'll get LOTS of popularity, I just don't know it will catch on, some people buy flashcards but dont even know about homebrew, so that limits you right there, bottom line? Soldat will do way better as a commercial game, if you don't want the money (I expect we should at least get the money we put into it) we can sell it for 10 - 20$ like N+ .... Really though, we can test it out on homebrew, than it will be alot easier to make it commercial once we get the money....


I do agree that lefties should be included, so all buttons should be on the D-Pad, touch screen, and bumpers. But the grenade will not work as a button - on screen as you need to aim with the nade too, throwing a knife will not work on screen either as you need to aim with IT too. I don't agree with double taping the up pad for boost, i dunno it just won't feel right to me, but it might be worth a try considering if you can change the controls easily...I think boost should be a bumper, but double taping down for prone would be awesome.

Date Posted: August 27, 2008, 03:39:11 pmbtw MM never reads the forums and i dont think his emails either, so you'll need to contact EC and get him to contact MM for you...

[djgman]

Well first of all if I'm going to program the game it will be open source, just because I like giving back to the homebrew community. Second is that you cannot license a game like that. Nintendo doesn't license any games made from anything other than the official sdk(which costs around 5000$) and even then you have to go through a producer. There won't be any money put into it anyways since homebrew doesn't cost anything to make. Thanks for the offer but soldat just isn't a game that needs much story. The only help I would accept from any members would be programming help from people experianced in c/c++ or any language close to it.

[Shadow G-Unit]

You might want to read this...

[djgman]

*Michal doesn't have the money nor the time to do so.

That doesn't mean that other people don't have the time.
Ugh people read the thread before posting... the same stupid point has already been brought up like 3 times.

[Shadow G-Unit]

It's not stupid, it's logical. Tell me when you make it, which I and others doubt will happen.

[miketh2005]

I do like my screen scheme better tho, using the bottom screen to aim is just awful (one of the reasons why i didnt like Geometry wars so much) and using the bottom screen to shoot is way better and easier for newbies, the buttons on screen should be the same execpt nade (see above post) So let me make up another control scheme using both my ideas and his:

I've covered the screens so here is the control scheme:

Fire = R
Boost = L
Up = Jump / run
Down = crouch
Double tap down = prone
Left = go left
Right = go right
Throw flag = double tap up (this might cause annoyances tho...)
Throw nade = double tap L
Change wep = on screen
Reload wep =  on screen
chat = on screen (both chats should have 1 button but it should have a drop down window)
team chat = on screen (both chats should have 1 button but it should have a drop down window)
Wep menu = tap the reload on screen button while in respawn
Select = bring up / down radar
Start = Main Menu
Stylus = go to the edge of screen to change camera position, aim,  double click to throw wep

If there's a will there's a way

Remember the bottom and the top screen should have the action, the soldat and the cursor on bottom screen, radar on top screen by pressing select...

[djgman]

@shadow

Well throughout this topic I have logically proven that logically making soldat for the ds isnt illogical. Logically I can't Logically understand why everyone illogically assumes that logically soldat is this uber complicated and logically impossible game to design. Also everyone Illogically assumes that MM is the only person who could ever make this game because apparently he is the only programmer in existence ever.

@miketh2005
I'm sorry but that control scheme just seems way too over complicated, it's also every user unfriendly considering that you constantly have to change your hand positions.

[miketh2005]

Well first of all if I'm going to program the game it will be open source, just because I like giving back to the homebrew community. Second is that you cannot license a game like that. Nintendo doesn't license any games made from anything other than the official sdk(which costs around 5000$) and even then you have to go through a producer. There won't be any money put into it anyways since homebrew doesn't cost anything to make. Thanks for the offer but soldat just isn't a game that needs much story. The only help I would accept from any members would be programming help from people experianced in c/c++ or any language close to it.

5K? thats it? wow this looks good going through a publisher wont be much trouble? well lots of trouble but it can happen is what im saying.  I garuntee you that a homebrew Soldat will not have much, if any people on multiplayer, and it would prob only have 1 server, not enough to hold much interest, i would also like to know how you plan on doing the dedicated servers? will it have scripts and such, because if its just the normal game modes, thatd be stupid to tell the truth, anyway, Soldat could use a single player mode, please just let me write something up and see if you like it, plus i come up with good ideas too, (check my thread) please use me, what's there to lose? i dont cost any money

Date Posted: August 27, 2008, 04:16:49 pm

@shadow

Well throughout this topic I have logically proven that logically making soldat for the ds isnt illogical. Logically I can't Logically understand why everyone illogically assumes that logically soldat is this uber complicated and logically impossible game to design. Also everyone Illogically assumes that MM is the only person who could ever make this game because apparently he is the only programmer in existence ever.

@miketh2005
I'm sorry but that control scheme just seems way too over complicated, it's also every user unfriendly considering that you constantly have to change your hand positions.

rofl at first part.

it is not a complicated control scheme, and you do not have to keep changing hands, explain how you have to change hands and how its soooo complicated

[djgman]

An old saying among game developers is "Don't think too big". You're trying to move too fast from the beginning and it just doesn't work that way. Nintendo doesn't sell their SDK to any tom dick and harry either, they require you to submit an official request document, detailing your company and it's credentials. Also Publishers throw away over 90% of their submittions, because they are not going to sink a bunch of their money into something that won't make them money. I'm NOT going to make this game for profit. If I wanted to make a game for profit I would come up with my own idea. 

eerr... well one thing is that you cannot boost and aim at the same time.

[mxyzptlk]

More likely than not, this would not be published. More likely it'd be homebrew.

[Blue-ninja]

It's not stupid, it's logical. Tell me when you make it, which I and others doubt will happen.

*frustrated sigh*

Goddammit, ShadowG, you're pissing me off. Read THIS topic before bringing up any stupid point that's been brought up, what three times? Don't. Even.

That link you suggested before was FOR the pc version, thus, the original Soldat platform, so if djgman wants to make a NDS game, he'd better as well, huh? What if it was really only homebrewed? Then you wouldn't know if he made it or not. Good riddance...christ...

[miketh2005]

An old saying among game developers is "Don't think too big". You're trying to move too fast from the beginning and it just doesn't work that way. Nintendo doesn't sell their SDK to any tom dick and harry either, they require you to submit an official request document, detailing your company and it's credentials. Also Publishers throw away over 90% of their submittions, because they are not going to sink a bunch of their money into something that won't make them money. I'm NOT going to make this game for profit. If I wanted to make a game for profit I would come up with my own idea. 

eerr... well one thing is that you cannot boost and aim at the same time.

You can donate any extra money you get to MM or charity or whatever for goodness sake, true 95% of the time you won't get through but whose to say it's not worth trying? "the worst idea is one that hasn't been said" if you don't try, you don't get it. I'm not looking ahead too much, like I said you should make it homebrew first, if it works out and theres lots of people and no demand than you don't do it, if its a complete and utter failure and theres demand still, do it, if its a failure and theres no demand dont do it, if its a hit and there is  demand, do it. use homebrew as a testing grounds.

Why can't you aim and boost at the same time??

[Stealth]

Miketh, do you OWN a DS? It's impossible to control both shoulder triggers AND use the touchscreen at the same time. The control schemes djgman has suggested is almost THE standard for games that use the touchscreen for aiming. Best example being Metroid Prime, as well as Call of Duty, Brother in Arms, even Phantom Hourglass have the player holding ONE side of the DS while using the stylus with the other. That means the player has a total of 5 buttons (4 main, with a shoulder) plus touchscreen at their disposal, for a game like this anyway.

[miketh2005]

I do have a DS, and I CAN use both bumpers while holding the stylus by using my pinky finger to use the R button, as I have seen in another game. It sounds bad but you get used to it almost instantly...

[Shadow G-Unit]

It's not stupid, it's logical. Tell me when you make it, which I and others doubt will happen.

*frustrated sigh*

Goddammit, ShadowG, you're pissing me off. Read THIS topic before bringing up any stupid point that's been brought up, what three times? Don't. Even.

That link you suggested before was FOR the pc version, thus, the original Soldat platform, so if djgman wants to make a NDS game, he'd better as well, huh? What if it was really only homebrewed? Then you wouldn't know if he made it or not. Good riddance...christ...

Oh god, it's like I care about people over the internet, oh!

[djgman]

lol internet tough guys.

[Stealth]

I do have a DS, and I CAN use both bumpers while holding the stylus by using my pinky finger to use the R button, as I have seen in another game. It sounds bad but you get used to it almost instantly...

Well then I applaud you. Even with stylus-less game like Megaman, I find my hand cramping up to use all the buttons. I guess, like Soldat, controls can eventually be configurable, but I think you'd at least have to agree that, for default controls, the more normal thing to do is stick with the standard button hand and stylus hand combo. 

[djgman]

Yeah just because you can magically play with your hands like that doesn't mean the majority of people can.

[miketh2005]

then why is this game even on market then?? anyway i guess you can use your crappy scheme and make it configurable like in Soldat...

[djgman]

IT'S NOT ON THE MARKET. IT'S HOME BREW. ITS FREE. THE SOURCE IS AVAILABLE FOR ANYONE TO EDIT AND DISTRIBUTE ON THEIR OWN. I AM MAKING NO PROFIT OR PUTTING ANY MONEY INTO DEVELOPING IT OR ADVERTISING IT. I'M JUST MAKING IT FOR FUN. I'M MAKING IT BECAUSE I LOVE SOLDAT AND THIS WOULD GIVE ME MORE EXPERIENCE IN GAME DEVELOPMENT AND GIVE ME A BETTER PORTFOLIO AS A PROGRAMMER. I'M MAKING IT FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ENJOY SOLDAT ON THE GO.

CAPITAL LETTERS FOR CLARIFICATION.

[jrgp]

ITS FREE. THE SOURCE IS AVAILABLE FOR ANYONE TO EDIT AND DISTRIBUTE ON THEIR OWN.

You'd probably want to license it under the GPL then, wiki that.

Oh, and btw. YELLING isn't allowed. I'd quit that if you want to stay on this lovely blue site.

[Blue-ninja]

Easier said than done, jrgp...just about quite a few people who's replied to this thread is against his ambitions.

[djgman]

Well first of all capital letters don't always institute yelling on the internet. Typically you can't "yell" in text because it's a non-vocal form of communication.  I was typing in caps for the simple reason of clarification because some people seem to not be able to comprehend things they read without them being drilled into their head.

[Shadow G-Unit]

IT'S NOT ON THE MARKET. IT'S HOME BREW. ITS FREE. THE SOURCE IS AVAILABLE FOR ANYONE TO EDIT AND DISTRIBUTE ON THEIR OWN. I AM MAKING NO PROFIT OR PUTTING ANY MONEY INTO DEVELOPING IT OR ADVERTISING IT. I'M JUST MAKING IT FOR FUN. I'M MAKING IT BECAUSE I LOVE SOLDAT AND THIS WOULD GIVE ME MORE EXPERIENCE IN GAME DEVELOPMENT AND GIVE ME A BETTER PORTFOLIO AS A PROGRAMMER. I'M MAKING IT FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ENJOY SOLDAT ON THE GO.

CAPITAL LETTERS FOR CLARIFICATION.

You're a liar, if you spend that much time on a homebrew, you would like money for it; greedy bastard.

[LtKillroy]

Well first of all capital letters don't always institute yelling on the internet. Typically you can't "yell" in text because it's a non-vocal form of communication.  I was typing in caps for the simple reason of clarification because some people seem to not be able to comprehend things they read without them being drilled into their head.

The exact rule is "No YELLING". Read the rules before you post. That is what bold and italics is for.
Anyway like I said in the other thread, good luck, because I honesly would probably buy it if you actually made it well, but I won't be crushed when you don't.

[djgman]

You're a liar, if you spend that much time on a homebrew, you would like money for it; greedy bratwurst.
Do you even know what homebrew is?

Homebrew games are free, like I've been saying for thepast two pages.

Also, sorry, I'll try to keep my mean old capitalized posts to myself so I don't hurt the feelings of a forum full of people who play a game that features blood splurting, chainsawing people in half, and decapitation...

I don't want to discuss anymore of the "you can't do it", "it's bound to fail", "how u maek it wit no moneyz!!!",or "Here let me leech off of your idea to make myself seem important" posts. Let's get back onto the reason I started this topic. For some actual constructive comments and feedback rather than just completely shutting down the idea because you have this predisposition of thinking that soldat is the hardest game ever to make and it's impossible for anyone to port it to different systems because it is so complex and can only be made with MM's code.

[mxyzptlk]

As I have said prior in this thread, it sounds like a good project, but you need to work on it hard. I have plenty of experience with failed projects. If you want to make this, work on  it constantly.

Good luck, God Speed, and have at it. I expect good things.

[djgman]

Yeah, I always find reaching small goals during the process helps speed along the development faster than trying shoot for bigger goals like coding servers and such at first. The game most likely won't be released perfect on it's first releases, but it's all a matter of taking baby steps until the final release is reached. In all honesty the first beta tests probably won't have wifi on them but will instead focus on the game mechanics and physics engine.

[mxyzptlk]

How much of the engine do you have made?

[djgman]

Well, none. I'm not going to start on it until I get the ok from MM and get some feedback from the community.

[mxyzptlk]

I'd get started on making the basics of the engine. I really doubt he would mind a fan-game being made. Even if he does, you can make original graphics and physics for it and make it anyway.

[Tallacaps]

djgman if nds people don't want Soldat sure that Pandora people will do.

[djgman]

ummm, what?

@mxyzptlk
That seem's like it would be a good idea, but to be honest I don't really want to make another other game of this genre rather than soldat because it would indeed then be a knock off.

[Tallacaps]

Pandora a new handeld:



http://openpandora.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_(console)

And wiz:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X_Wiz

[JupiterShadow]

Pandora a new handeld:



http://openpandora.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_(console)

And wiz:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X_Wiz

The first one looks like a small electronic dictionary and the second one a Nintendo game and watch. 

[Tallacaps]

The first one looks like a small electronic dictionary and the second one a Nintendo game and watch. 

I can assure you. It's not a diccionary! 
The best the battery life. The worst the price.

Texas Instruments OMAP3530 processor at 600MHz (can be overclocked to 900MHz[5])
128MB DDR-333 SDRAM
256MB NAND FLASH memory
IVA2+ audio and video processor (based on the TMS320C64x+ DSP Core at 430MHz) using TI's DaVinci technology
ARM Cortex-A8 superscalar microprocessor core
PowerVR SGX 530 (110 MHz) OpenGL ES 2.0 compliant 3D hardware
Integrated Wi-Fi 802.11b/g
Integrated Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR (3Mbit/s)[4]
800x480 resolution touchscreen LCD, 4.3" widescreen, 16.7 million colors (300 cd/m2 brightness, 450:1 contrast ratio)
Dual analog nubs; 15mm diameter, concave, 2mm travel from centre
Full gamepad controls plus shoulder buttons
Dual SDHC card slots (currently up to 64GB of storage)
Headphone output up to 150mW/channel into 16 ohms, 99dB SNR
TV output (composite and S-Video)
Internal microphone plus ability to connect external microphone through headset
43 button QWERTY and numeric keypad
USB 2.0 OTG port (480Mb/s) with capability to charge the Pandora
USB 2.0 HOST port (480Mb/s) capable of providing standard 500mA current to attached devices
Externally accessible UART for hardware hacking and debugging
Brick prevention with integrated bootloader for safe code experimentation
Runs the Linux operating system (kernel 2.6.x)
4000mAH rechargeable lithium ion battery
Approximately 10 hours of runtime for video / general applications and 100 hours for music playback
Dimensions: 140x83x27mm[4] between a nds and a nds lite

[djgman]

yeah, well as much as I would love to see more advertisements for Pandora... back on topic.

[Stealth]

Actually djgman, the Pandora looks like an awesome open homebrew device. Perhaps (since both DS and this use ARM) you should keep in mind a modular approach to when you program the Soldat DS? The "second screen" stuff would obviously disappear on Pandora, but it could ease the work of a port, for the far future of course. So try not to integrate the second display TOO much, maybe? 

[Frenchie]

Pandora a new handeld:

Well spotted Tallacaps

Each time I see a thread about 'Soldat on the DS' I think about the openpandora.

djgman, that would be quite a device to code for. Plus it's also got touchscreen.
Don't take these posts as off-topic There just ideas from the community

[Espadon]

It really sounds like he has his mind made up though, so what's the use for feedback from the community? Most of the experienced people [negatively] see it as a corruption of Soldat, as a lot of the signature features [I will miss my taunts and chat even if vs boring bots] will have to be dropped in order to make "Soldat Lite for DS" playable [while I don't have a DS and I don't plan on one, I've seen one before and I can tell already there aren't enough keys for a full port]. Not being easily accessible for modding would also be a detraction.
If homebrewed is to be released free, is there a way to put the game onto the DS without going through a publisher? Doesn't the DS still use a card/cartridge system? Chances are the publisher is not going to release something that won't bring back a return.

It's a well-meaning idea, but realistically I think you should spend your time doing something more original that's designed for the platform you have in mind. It'll be better both for the game [it won't be a crampjob] and your portfolio.

[Stealth]

[while I don't have a DS and I don't plan on one, I've seen one before and I can tell already there aren't enough keys for a full port]. Not being easily accessible for modding would also be a detraction.
If homebrewed is to be released free, is there a way to put the game onto the DS without going through a publisher? Doesn't the DS still use a card/cartridge system? Chances are the publisher is not going to release something that won't bring back a return.

Just to answer these 2 statements:

1. You can see in this thread the issue with buttons is easily solved, and that you can do just about everything with a DS as you can with the normal Soldat. (I guess minus the chat/taunts). However, chatting and taunting is useless in a game when you are playing against your friends, in the same room. It's one of the advantages to the DS networking play. If there's an online mode, it's *possible*  to also add voice chat, a-la Metroid Prime, though I don't know how hard it is to add.

2. Yes, homebrew is done using carts as well (older homebrew carts use the GBA slot), the difference is these carts allow you to insert MicroSD cards into them. There is no need for a publisher. When the game is done, djg just releases the binaries (an .nds ROM file) that you throw on the memory and play.

[djgman]

Actually in my mockup when you press the chat button on the bottom screen a on screen keyboard comes up to where you can type in what you need to say or type in commands. I will also have a feature to where you can set pre-typed messages to buttons for quicker reaction.

Now for all this pandora mumbo jumbo, the main reason I really wouldn't bother to program in for the pandora is that it's a system nobody has and will probably never get. There is a way bigger audiance of people with ds's than there is pandoras(which is still zero). The second reason is that I am familiar with ds programming and I just don't want to learn how to use a new sdk for a system that will probably never hit the majority of the market.

[Tallacaps]

Now for all this pandora mumbo jumbo, the main reason I really wouldn't bother to program in for the pandora is that it's a system nobody has and will probably never get.

We understand you. 
Basicly it's a linux system. Using sdl you can code too for a linux desktop.

There is a way bigger audiance of people with ds's than there is pandoras(which is still zero).

Correct. Still zero.

The second reason is that I am familiar with ds programming and I just don't want to learn how to use a new sdk for a system that will probably never hit the majority of the market.

Ok. Only was a suggestion. 

[Stealth]

Just for the record, there is an 80% chance I buy a Pandora. So that's at least 1 user.  If anything for that 100 hour music time, then I can replace my Nano.

Although DS does have an SDL port doesn't it? Oh well, whatever.

Good idea on the preset buttons. Perhaps you can have a certain default set change according to gameplay modes? You don't need a "Go for the flag" in DM right? 

[miketh2005]

IT'S NOT ON THE MARKET. IT'S HOME BREW. ITS FREE. THE SOURCE IS AVAILABLE FOR ANYONE TO EDIT AND DISTRIBUTE ON THEIR OWN. I AM MAKING NO PROFIT OR PUTTING ANY MONEY INTO DEVELOPING IT OR ADVERTISING IT. I'M JUST MAKING IT FOR FUN. I'M MAKING IT BECAUSE I LOVE SOLDAT AND THIS WOULD GIVE ME MORE EXPERIENCE IN GAME DEVELOPMENT AND GIVE ME A BETTER PORTFOLIO AS A PROGRAMMER. I'M MAKING IT FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ENJOY SOLDAT ON THE GO.

CAPITAL LETTERS FOR CLARIFICATION.

I said why is the game that you play, using the touch screen and your pink finger to use the R button on the market if it cant be done.

Date Posted: September 08, 2008, 11:49:39 pm

Just for the record, there is an 80% chance I buy a Pandora. So that's at least 1 user. If anything for that 100 hour music time, then I can replace my Nano.

Although DS does have an SDL port doesn't it? Oh well, whatever.

Good idea on the preset buttons. Perhaps you can have a certain default set change according to gameplay modes? You don't need a "Go for the flag" in DM right?

You can play music on the DS too, a 4GB microSD card is about 14$ (twin pack on newegg)

Date Posted: September 09, 2008, 12:04:45 ambtw, i had the same idea for the taunts / chat, the only thing is it would take a whole lot longer to type with the touch screen

[Snow]

I thought I'd just add to this thread. The closest thing I've seen to Soldat on a DS (and how it would be controlled) is Still Alive DS

I have a copy of the game myself and I have to say, that for soldat, the controls would slow and even though you have a similar control style, it still feels different.

Here's a video of the game or more importantly a demo of the controls in action: http://www.youtube.com/v/nl9q8cRkwOM&hl=en&fs=1