Spas- Needs a nerf.

[Lumen-Shroom]

The spas, as it is, has the highest non-1 hit DPS at close range. It has great bullet push which will be slightly remedied by the 1.5 push nerf, and it has a unique reloading system. It's pretty much not possible to run out of ammo with the spas.

I honestly think it needs a major nerf. A running shot leaves your enemy at 10%ish health, another in their general direction and they're dead. It also needs a bulletspeed nerf. This would reduce the ridiculous bullet push and the out-of-proportion range. I've had spas users arc a full group of pellets all the way across the screen into me, devastating my momentum and health. This is, in my opinion, not what a rush weapon should be able to do.

To fix this, I propose one of the two: Lower bulletspeed, or, as a beta tester explained in several threads regarding the m79, momentum from the player is added to projectiles. I say reduce this effect on the spas so as to reduce its range.

[CrayAB]

..what? Spaz is fine.  It shines at close range maps, namely Ash and Kampf.  It's pretty easy to hang back with an AK or Ruger, and shoot them before they get close.  If you let him get close to you, then you deserve to die there.

However, I do agree with the long range part.  Lower range wouldn't be too bad, but it would make it rather useless on any long range maps.

[The Geologist]

Don't touch the spas.  It's a great gun, and as a rush weapon, why shouldn't it be such a killer?

If you ran far enough away, it's effect is greatly diminished anyhoo.  As for health issues...it's a fecking shotgun.  To your face (if you're that close). 

Push problems?  I think it makes the game better to have guns doing things other than just damage.  Boosting, pushing, whatever...makes for good strategy if pulled off well.  But lowering bullet speed and range?  Drawing comparisons with the m79 is pretty poor.  If you get hit with the m79 up close or at range, it's still a one hit weapon.  Spas at range won't kill in one shot. 

Methinks you're upset over a spaser pwning you.

[mxyzptlk]

The spas is fine. It doesn't need messed with.

[STM1993]

Spas hmm?

It's a really good gun for rushing and one of the kings in close range, just not very popular. It has a backward boost from the Spas when fired, which is a bit like a double-edged sword ; it will slow you down if you shoot someone infront of you, but it would boost you with some speed if you shot backwards.

If you think about it, the Spas' range is terrible. Sure, it's damage is great and its pellets will spread over a wide distance over time and it can be used to make angled shots. But, it's bullet speed is so low, it loses a lot of damage at long range, and any other gun can beat the Spas as long as they stay out of the Spas' effective range. Get diagonally upward from a Spas and stay a distance away as well. He can hardly hit you and even if he does, his damage is really puny.

The damage of the Spas is very high, more than Ruger in fact if all pellets hit, though not a 1-hit killer (unless in Realistic) but as said before, it'd only work at a relatively close range. That is still not enough for the Spas to ensure that it is a king in close range. If the Spas had a 175 + 32 tick reload, it'd surely get owned the moment it begins to reload. To ensure that isn't the case, it is able to reload shell by shell.

Lastly, the Spas is very specialized. On some maps and some situations, it'd really be a dangerous foe. Others, it'd be pretty bad. And personally, I find that the Spas is quite difficult to use.



No modifications needed. It's perfect so far, though I wouldn't be able to say that for the 1.5's Spas, which would probably get +1 ammo (that's a reasonable buff). The 75% bullet push is really going to be a big problem for Spas, seeing that the Spas relies pretty heavily on its bullet push. But then again, so are the other weapons. And then again, let's not count the chickens before they hatch ; we do not know how the Spas would be like.

[Ziem]

Methinks you're upset over a spaser pwning you.

And you're right...

Spas is powerful in close range, but its getting owned by most auto users in mid range(the majority of players use autos..), not to mention long range where spas does almost nothing.
My opinion is that reduced bullet push will change this weapon a bit, it won't make it simply more or less powerful. It's gonna be more useful when shooting at escaping enemies and slightly worse when defending.
If it's so uber pwnt weapon, why I don't see at least 50% of people playing it on all maps?

[LtKillroy]

Spas is one of the most balanced guns in the game. Rapes your face up close, completely piece of crap far away. Backflip is great way to get away from the spas anyway.

[blackdevil0742]

I think it's fine but I don't like the infinite ammo.

[mxyzptlk]

It's not infinite. Have you ever tried reloading in the middle of a firefight? Instant suicide.

[blackdevil0742]

Em have you ever used reload just when you shoot?... you get that shell back and can just keep shooting until your arm falls off or til your fingers start bleeding.

[not-so-blank]

Yeah, spas is quite well balanced, if your on a close range map with one (like ash) do 1 of 2 things

1. Go hi with a longer range wep
2. pull out the M79 and go noob on his ass

I prefer the 2nd

[The Epic Guy]

LOL its almost impossible to kill someone from far away with a spas. I like the spas despite the fact I fail with it. Probably takes the most skill, besides the minigun, to use effectively.

[mxyzptlk]

Em have you ever used reload just when you shoot?... you get that shell back and can just keep shooting until your arm falls off or til your fingers start bleeding.

Indeed, but it takes twice as long as normally refiring every shell, so there's no problem.

[The Epic Guy]

If you think about it, the spas has one of the slowest reloads, based on reloading a full clip. The shell by shell reload does balance it out.

[-Vis-]

Em have you ever used reload just when you shoot?... you get that shell back and can just keep shooting until your arm falls off or til your fingers start bleeding.

Indeed, but it takes twice as long as normally refiring every shell, so there's no problem.

If by "twice as long", you mean "a fraction of a second", then I agree. Otherwise, you're doing it wrong. It needs to be fixed ASAP.

Aside from that, it's definitely not OP, and doesn't need to be nerfed.

[excruciator]

The point of reload is to have rounds, round by round reload is not a disadvantage by any means.

my definition of reloading would be time needed to recharge rounds, it could be 1, or 30. So technically, spas has a very short reload.

[STM1993]

A full reload to 7 clips will take quite long though.

However, there are some techniques to make the Spas seem like it has infinite ammo.

1. Hold down reload while shooting. Make sure ammo does not go below 6 while using this, so if you do this you need to shoot a bit slower.

2. If you are in the reload animation and you want to shoot, don't just shoot. Tap the grenade button once to cancel out of the reload. And then you shoot.



Anyway,

Spas is powerful in close range, but its getting owned by most auto users in mid range(the majority of players use autos..), not to mention long range where spas does almost nothing.
My opinion is that reduced bullet push will change this weapon a bit, it won't make it simply more or less powerful. It's gonna be more useful when shooting at escaping enemies and slightly worse when defending.
If it's so uber pwnt weapon, why I don't see at least 50% of people playing it on all maps?

Quoted for truth.

[Geoffrey]

In realistic mode it needs nerfing badly. Unfortunately Madchal bums spas and seems to take care of the WB. That dastard. :<

[croat1gamer]

2. If you are in the reload animation and you want to shoot, don't just shoot.

that is also the biggest drawback if you reload the spas, if you stop an animation, the bullets wont fly in the enemy, they will just hit the ground, and in the time between the shots any weapon except the law can kill u (even the socom, just you need an expirienced socom user)

and for realistic: who cares, i like it that way, in tw_gloryhill it kicks ass, you camp behind the box in the middle bunker, its almost impossible to kill u, just aim for the head of the incoming rusher, but careful for nades

[MuffinDude]

Never had much of a trouble against a spas, well not as much as a m79.