Spas- Needs a nerf.

[Lumen-Shroom]

Don't touch the spas.  It's a great gun, and as a rush weapon, why shouldn't it be such a killer?

If you ran far enough away, it's effect is greatly diminished anyhoo.  As for health issues...it's a fecking shotgun.  To your face (if you're that close). 

Push problems?  I think it makes the game better to have guns doing things other than just damage.  Boosting, pushing, whatever...makes for good strategy if pulled off well.  But lowering bullet speed and range?  Drawing comparisons with the m79 is pretty poor.  If you get hit with the m79 up close or at range, it's still a one hit weapon.  Spas at range won't kill in one shot. 

Methinks you're upset over a spaser pwning you.

Mhmm. And a minigun is ten thousand rounds per minute. To your face. I don't see it so horrendously imbalanced.

[STM1993]

Mhmm. And a minigun is ten thousand rounds per minute. To your face. I don't see it so horrendously imbalanced.

Lmao - The Minigun in Soldat =/= 10,000 rounds per minute. Far from it in fact.

Minigun is actually unbalanced - in the sense that it is too weak. The main reason is actually due to the long startup time. By the time you start up and fire, most of the time you're already being shot at even with almost perfect timing. Which means it is not practical to use at all in any combat situation. In addition, its reload is terribly long and its damage per shot is terrible. It relies on damage per second, which is the highest of all autos in the game. However, the hit registration for the minigun is terrible, and self-bink is really a problem. And again, the startup time makes it not practical to use - you might as well use a Steyr Aug or a Minimi. How many times can you actually make the minigun blast into someone's face? The chances are very low, even if it is a pub. At any range that is too far, the minigun is just literally a spray weapon.



I tried out the Spas. I reckon that a shotgun should be a gun that is incredibly good at close-quarters and very high DPS, but yet have short-range. Unless the shotgun is a Lupara/sawn-off, the reload should be shell by shell so ammo and reload is not a problem to a shotgun. In a game like Soldat, it should have a strong bullet push too. The current shotgun has:

1. High Damage (Good)
2. Pretty strong bullet push (Good)
3. High DPS (Good)
4. Ammo is not a problem to Spas - Shell by shell reload (Good)
5. For a shotgun, it has a backward boost (Advantage: Good for defense. Disadvantage: Rushing will be slowed down)
6. Range is pretty short

The spas here is pretty good - its like a true shotgun. Good at close-quarters, terrible at long range. It has some ability to kill at close-mid, but any further its a piece of crap. I support the shotgun to have +1 ammo. I don't mind a slightly short range for the shotgun (I estimate a value within -10 to -5 speed would be okay) but with increased damage (and bullet push for a bonus) to make up for the lost bullet speed and range or slightly more, but the main problem is this:

The lower the bullet speed, the lower the bullet push. Are the developers/coders able to make the bullet push for each weapon individual instead of applying it to all weapons?

I doubt it though, seeing how the 75% bullet push is gonna affect all weapons instead of individually. And because of this, I reckon the balance is going to be more screwed up since some weapons are already almost perfect (for example: Socom, DEs, MP5, Barrett, Minimi).

[KYnetiK]

The only thing i dont like about spas is the damage it causes over large distances. I think the damage it causes for the speed of the pellets is ridiculously huge. Many times ive seen spas' do 2 shots to kill even when the shooter is offscreen, even though the pellets have less momentum then a george bush campaign.

An example i noticed a while ago and tested : spas bullets fired straight up. When gravity overcomes levity, the velocity of the bullets become zero, then increase as it falls to earth. However, i managed to lose practically half my health flying into it, despite the bullets having no velocity. An idle chunk of metal with no momentum should do no damage imo.

[Gizd]

An idle chunk of metal with no momentum should do no damage imo.

Yes, when you are not moving.

Many times ive seen spas' do 2 shots to kill even when the shooter is offscreen

I played with spaz for 2 months and never saw that(I spray even with barrett ) if damaged player was +20% HP(10% can die from anything...).

[Extacide]

Remember that they're PELLETS. Regardless how slow they are, there are a lot of them. The damage adds up. Ever get hit by a single pellet? It does less than a socom.

Secondly, it's balanced. It's more underpowered than it is overpowered, in my opinion, but over all a very balanced weapon. It's MEANT to to rape face up close. You're taking a pellet into the face at full speed. That equals pain. Two shots? Justified. Close up maps like Ash and Nuubia are the glory of Spas, just like maps such as Run and B2b *EDIT: I AM DUMB LULZ* are the glory of AK, Ruger, Barret, Minimi, Desert Eagles, i.e. every gun that is actually good at medium-long ranges. Spas can take 3-5 shots to kill from mid to screen distance because the pellets are terribly weak, ESPECIALLY when firing upwards, whereas firing downwards the user is at a disadvantage if the opposition knows how to abuse that.

If you die to a spas, it's either situational or you are dumb enough to let it happen. Keep your distance and counter it with a SUPERIOR close-ranged weapon (M79), or keep your distance with a superior ranged weapon (basically 80% of the other guns). Don't forget, that you need huge momentum with a spas to really pack the punch of a rush. The pellets push you away, and the shotgun pushes its own user back. It inevitably creates more distance when you are retreating. The push back is situational and has both it's advantages and its shortcomings. If you have the flag and you're on the wrong side, you aren't going anywhere. If you're opposite to the opposing side, well, you get a free boost.

The reload isn't even an argument. Once you go through your entire clip, you have to wait half a second between each shot, then a full second. The DPS goes down tremendously until the user takes cover to reload completely. Its another feature that has advantages and short comings, and overall it has one of the worst reloads of all guns because of this.

Conclusion: Next time you get owned by a spas, learn a counter; statistically speaking, there are proven counters that are superior in different situations, and you aren't utilizing them.

[STM1993]

The reload isn't even an argument. Once you go through your entire clip, you have to wait half a second between each shot, then a full second. The DPS goes down tremendously until the user takes cover to reload completely. Its another feature that has advantages and short comings, and overall it has one of the worst reloads of all guns because of this.

True, though there are techniques to counter this problem.

Reloading halfway and need to shoot? Tap the grenade button, then you shoot, not just shoot.
Wanna have "infinite ammo"? Simple. Hold down reload while shooting, but don't shoot too fast.



The main reason why people may say the Spas is balanced or even weak is because of the short-range, while the reason why people say the Spas is a bit overpowered is actually due to the range being slightly long, its not about the damage.

As said in my previous post, I believe the Spas is a great weapon, though its range needs to be tweaked a little. After that slightly shortened range, I'd say there should be more bullet push and stronger damage - speed is one of the most important factors for damage and bullet push, so the damage and bullet push has to be obviously increased to make up for this loss, and made a bit stronger due to its loss of range. I reckon the 75% bullet push and the +1 bullet push in the next version is gonna make the Spas even more unbalanced. Unfortunately, there's no way to increase the bullet push without increasing the speed... unless you can actually make the Spas shoot more than 7 pellets and reduce the damage of each pellet so that the total damage is still the same.

And yes, I support the +1 ammo. Even though it'd take longer to completely reload to 8 ammo, it also means you can shoot more before needing to reload, and with the techniques above, the Spas is more of buffed than nerfed.

To summarise, I believe the Spas-12 deserves a strong buff but also having reduced range.

[Lumen-Shroom]

I'd agree. It's fine that they destroy at close range, but arcing a full shot of pellets offscreen into someone and killing them shouldn't be possible.

[Ziem]

It takes about 3-4 shots from spas to kill from long range... assuming that you will hit with all pellets, which is rather rare. Offscreen shots usually do almost nothing (they take ~10% hp..).

[Lumen-Shroom]

It takes about 3-4 shots from spas to kill from long range... assuming that you will hit with all pellets, which is rather rare. Offscreen shots usually do almost nothing (they take ~10% hp..).

Offscreen shots shouldn't be possible

[Extacide]

Okay well, I've never seen anyone do this before. Why? It's retarded and isn't viable. There are better guns for spraying with push back (i.e. Steyr). At any rate, the Spas needs the range it has, otherwise it becomes a useless specialist weapon with no versatility. If you get killed by a spas from off screen distance, chances are you're dumb enough to lead into his shots. I've never had this happen to me. If anything, the Steyr is much worse when it comes to being pushed off screen. You're complaining about the wrong gun.

Offscreen shots shouldn't be possible

They should be possible.

[LtKillroy]

I don't see why we are still talking about the spas, it is probably the most balanced gun in the game.

[STM1993]

If anything, the Steyr is much worse when it comes to being pushed off screen. You're complaining about the wrong gun.

Which is most probably why the 75% bullet push came about in the first place. I support this if its only for Steyr, but it affects every weapon. So theoretically, you might still complain about the Steyr - because everything else's bullet push is also 75%, though the complaints may not be as much since some of the other weapons are not affected or at least not heavily affected.

[KYnetiK]

An idle chunk of metal with no momentum should do no damage imo.

Yes, when you are not moving.

Unless im moving at an incredible speed, or theres some kind of surface behind the bullet, i dont see how im going to drive a stationary bullet into my flesh, esp when at walking speed. ¬_¬

I know the pellets compound damage, but my point is [imo] they dont scale out enough over distance. If I were building Soldat, 2/3 hit kills when offscreen wouldnt and shouldnt be possible.

8 pellets with less velocity than a walking player should be just as useless as 1 pellet with less velocity than a walking player.

However Im not building Soldat so I dont expect it to be my way just because its my preference. There are ways to counter spas' over distance, this isnt something about spas i find crippling to the game, just an annoyance, and in fact, benefits in forcing the player to be more tactile and innovative. Leave it the way it is, because its obviously done its job thus far.

[KodiakJack]

the only reason you want to change my lovely spas is because your a sawer. And everyone knows Spas is Saw's mortal enemy. Every weapon is perfect. And, if you think its overpowered, why don't you use it? Then you have an advantage.

[STM1993]

the only reason you want to change my lovely spas is because your a sawer. And everyone knows Spas is Saw's mortal enemy. Every weapon is perfect. And, if you think its overpowered, why don't you use it? Then you have an advantage.

Wrong, I am not a sawer - I'm a Socom-user and even a Spas-user myself, though Lumen-Shroom is a sawer. I reckon it has a slightly long range. But did you read what I say? I believe that after its range is shortened by a bit, it should get a damage boost and a ammo +1 and a stronger bullet push. I'm not sure how this will work out, but it might even be possible that a sawer is more easily killed because of this change of stronger bullet push and higher damage despite its shorter range (where a sawer has more time to pick up speed).

If I think a weapon is overpowered and I use it and everyone does the same, the game becomes Counter-Strike - revolving around 3 weapons: AK, M4 and AWM Arctic. We do not wish the same to happen to Soldat. Otherwise, what's the point of having a weapons BALANCE?



Fighting a Spas from an upper position is a major disadvantage to the Spas, but on the ground or if he's above, it's death. The main problem is its range. Why is a shotgun able to do so much damage at long-range? That's why it needs a slight range nerf, but it should be strengthened - so its more like a true gaming shotgun.

The issue is just "how much". That, you'll have to ask the more professional players. Bullet speed should be nothing less than 118 - I estimate it should be around 128, -10 from current Spas's speed.

[Gotfryd]

Offscreen shots shouldn't be possible

Why? What if someone is so skilled that he can guess where enemy, which got out of screen second before, is, and aim precisely and shoot him?

Many times ive seen spas' do 2 shots to kill even when the shooter is offscreen, even though the pellets have less momentum then a george bush campaign.

Maybe in realistic?
I agree that in realistic spas is a little too efficient at long range.

[croat1gamer]

Many times ive seen spas' do 2 shots to kill even when the shooter is offscreen, even though the pellets have less momentum then a george bush campaign.

Maybe in realistic?
I agree that in realistic spas is a little too efficient at long range.

yes, its true, i managed a dozen of times to get a shot from the mid screen to the right, and kill, in realistic it is well balanced, but it gets pesky if the map is an open one (no roofs, etc.), cause spas spraying is often

[Extacide]

Why is a shotgun able to do so much damage at long-range?

Oh you mean the 3-5 shots, three if you're lucky? Considering how much skill it takes to even aim at such a distance with spas, and how much faster other long range weapons destroy a spas before it even hits twice screen distance. Spas is fine.

[nEttsE]

Spas is fine. Its not weapon, where you are able to master it fast. Its hard to get mastered with this weapon. I like it as it is.

[RedNeck]

They should be possible.

They are possible
Got lucky today and killed the boogyman with it