ctf_Iron

[Ekoz]

well, this is a new map, which i call ctf_Iron.



what do you think? please give any comments, suggestions, ect.

[~Niko~]

Really, really interesting concept, but you should make 2 ways, not only 1 nadespam/other crap route. Would be interesting to test it on a 4vs4 or so 

[Wraithlike]

Gameplay looks horrible. Alpha has a game breaking advantage, and it looks like movement will be painfully diffcult.

[ElSpec774]

Just scrap this map completely.  There's more work to fix it than to completely restart from scratch. 

All I can say is that you're a mapping newbie and you have a lot to learn.  You need to start from the basics, study the default CTF map, notice how the layouts allow smooth movement and somewhat non-lamish gameplay, depending on the layout.  And make sure that you keep the map balanced, don't end up with something like ctf_Kampf.  To combat this, mirror the map, and make some minor scenery changes, good example would be ctf_Ash or ctf_Lanubya. 

I also reconmend to simply experiment with PolyWorks.  That's how I got the overall feeling and what makes a good map and what doesn't.

If you have anymore questions, feel free to ask me or any other mapper around here, preferably Wraithlike.

[Ekoz]

...could've said a simple "it doesn't look very good." you sound like you are a very angry, alone person.

of course, that's just me...

i really don't care either if you think i should scrap it. i come here to get constructive critisism, not get my soul demorilized. if you want to tell me what if anything could get better, then please, chip in. otherwise, find a reason to say something, or don't say something.

if i sound a little pissed, then please, excuse me, my main forum is not a metropolis. i'm not to used to lots and lots of people. those types of conditions i have noticed usually breed anger

so far, i have:
mulitple routes
smoother routes (probably get rid of big islands/make them smaller.)
loose the gyro center (of course, thats what gives it it's name, but i see how it could give an advantage. perhaps come up with another "Gyro" concept?)

and, by the way, the map is balanced. the entire thing, except for the center (for now) is mirrored.

[Wraithlike]

Yeah, I'm always willing to help, feel free to ask me questions on AIM or MSN, or on x-fire (theichthyologist). You can also looks at My Tutorial which is quite thourough, and can help greatly. Don't let negative feedback keep you from mapping though, just let it make you better.

[Ekoz]

thanks wraith. actually, your tutorial is what started me off. please, any more thoughts before i am off to editing? i notice it's pretty much the "Gyro" that seems to cause the most problems.

[ElSpec774]

As Wraithlike said, don't let negative criticism get to you and I wasn't trying to be negative, I was being dead serious.  This map requires more repair rather than restarting from scratch.  As I said earlier, study the fucking default map layouts.  And if you want me to be harsh, I can be, but I perfer not to be to newbie mappers, but if you ask for it, I will unleash it.

Anyway, map is crap and I'll state it again, BEYOND repair.  Seriously, get rid of it.  Even then if you repair it with wasted efforts, no one will be willing to play it anyway, since gameplay won't be smooth at all.

[Ekoz]

why thank you for your message, just TEEMING with hope.

seriously, don't ever become a motivational speaker. one of your pupils will probably commit suicide.

it's that type of just raw negative attitude that shoots down inspiring people when they just start. really, even if you DO hate my map, you can simply just mask your hate with a simple "i don't really think that map would work out well" i would not care at all if you said something like that. but no, you have to take out the freaking anti air gun and mutilate it.

[ElSpec774]

I'm not fucking trying to bash you, I'm being dead serious and my advice is for your own mapping good.

Another potential mapper goes down the drain because he/she wasn't able to take constructive advice.  And far as I've seen, any mapper who can never take negative advice or criticisms will never become a great mapper.  That's how Wraithlike became one and I suggest you do the same.

Look, although I'm sure you don't want to scrap this since I'm very aware that this is your second map and you probably spent a very long time on this.  However, first several maps are never any good and aren't worth improvement.  If you want improvement, continue making maps, not repairing them.

[Wraithlike]

Calm down everyone. Here, I've made a potential layout that has a similar concept, but maintains balance. The problem with your current one is that the middle gives Alpha a large height advantage, and the single route bottleneck prevents fast gameplay. To balance this, I made one dengerous center route, which is the main locale of nadekit spawns, making it desirable for offense, and 2 other routes based off of your gyro design, but doubled up to keep balance. They also have the majority of medkit spawns, making them useful to retreating flag-carriers. The bases are also gives a second option to make escape easier.

I hope it helps, it doesn't need to be pixel for pixel, but it's a good framework for a balances, interesting layout.

[Ekoz]

i'm able to take constructive crtisim. on my first map thread, nobody saw this, because i edited it quickly after introducing it to my other forum, it was pretty much the same thing, except absoultely NO islands. i got a lot of people saying it was pretty much a mad dash that required no skill. people sounded nearly almost like you. one difference though: they didn't tell me to scrap it. so i worked on it, and worked on it, till i got the first prototype, which then got a MAJOR analysis from here. i darn near changed the entire gamplay of the map, until i got the second. and now, it still needs working. but look were it is. it has decent routes through the middle and top, and some pretty smooth gameplay. and now, i have to ponder: are the tunnels nessesary? so i will think on it, and continue to work on it, untill it's perfect. and every time, it gets better.

or, i could have just scraped it. a shell of a future may-be-great idea. who knows? i might have made a winning map. i might have not. but the drive of what could be is what drives ME, and i don't need people telling me otherwise, before i really do lose all hope.

but then again, you making me frustrated could be good, because now i am working like mad just to prove you wrong.

only time will tell.

as for wraiths, post, i think it could work. but then that would create non-smooth routes, so i came up with a better version, kinda, and scraped the "Gyro" name. mabey for another day...

-smaller, more easily asseible islands. only takes about one jump to go from spawn to island.
-one huge middle island, with a tunnel cut through the middle for a bunker 2 bunker passage.
-side triangles near the base cut down to half size.

[~Niko~]

Just scrap this map completely.  There's more work to fix it than to completely restart from scratch.

Did you ever played if fecking dumbass? Didn't you test-play it always before start with your angry comments?

All I can say is that you're a mapping newbie and you have a lot to learn.  You need to start from the basics, study the default CTF map, notice how the layouts allow smooth movement and somewhat non-lamish gameplay, depending on the layout.

Why have we to stick to the fecking repetitive classical ctf map? why not try anything new¿?

it's that type of just raw negative attitude that shoots down inspiring people when they just start. really, even if you DO hate my map, you can simply just mask your hate with a simple "i don't really think that map would work out well" i would not care at all if you said something like that. but no, you have to take out the freaking anti air gun and mutilate it.

That's the fecking TRUTH, you CAN GIVE ADVICE, but don't start your flaming trying to be Horve, and GET A feckING LIFE.

I like this map concept, huh, you hate it, you throw it in bin like garbage, but some day he'll come with some uber-freaking map that will rape your classical-hits ass FROM BACK.

[ElSpec774]

How can I test something that I can't even try?  he didn't post a downlink.  Look who's the fucking dumbass now.  Good that you want to try something new, but MAKE fucking sure that it can WELL.  As far as I can tell with my mapping knowledge compared to yours, this will NOT play well.  So STFU, you and your crappy failure maps.  And he'll make better maps than me?  He might some day, but that'll be a very long time from now.  And I will have more of a life than you ever will...  Remember that...

And for your map, I will very gladly wait for you to prove me wrong, although I highly doubt it.  Anyway, good that you took some of my advice.  I shall wait in the shadows until this will be updated...

And no fucking wonder the mapping community is dying.  It's filled with a bunch of ignorant fucks that can't take simple advice.

[Ekoz]

well, i was starting to agree with you, but whatever. if thats how you feel, that nobody takes advice.

anyway, here is the NEW version of ctf_Iron (and please do tell me if this name is taken - i don't have all the maps.)



oh, and sorry for the grid:)

[ElSpec774]

Much better now, notice how smoother it is now?

Name is not taken and I will require a download link for my advice to stretch further.

And this a-head-of-time advice, it looks so un-natural that the roof is so straight and at a 90' angle.  Round it out more.

[Ekoz]

oh, i was going for a kinda of man-made look. you really think the roof should be round?

ah, who am i kidding. you've been doing this for longer.

[Wraithlike]

Redo the flag areas, the single route will kill gameplay, because Alpha can nadespam it into oblivion.

[ElSpec774]

Unless I'm able to test it, which is why I need the .PMS file, the upper route can be a spray issue.  I suggest you round it out more, but in a style like in ctf_Steel.  It's provide good looks and smooth movement and limits spray.

And I agree with Wraithlike on the flag areas.  Something I forgot to mention.  Unless you change it, it'll be just like the flag area in ctf_Kampf on Alpha's side.

[~Niko~]

And no fecking wonder the mapping community is dying.  It's filled with a bunch of ignorant fecks that can't take simple advice.

simple advice, filled with angry comments, who'd dislike anyone who starts to mapping and he's just trying to make a map, not to be the best.

you didn't even try to tell him some advice to make the map better, don't you have a lot of mapping knowledge¿? so then prove it there, if you are so PRO.

btw, he'd just showing us a concept of a map, take it easy, if you flame so much you will not live for long

huh, now he scrapped it as you wanted to... meh, it turned in another classical CTF layout map. pure garbage, poor of you.