*HTF_PAIN* Continue Working On This?

[ElSpec774]

Latest map, very huge and very grisly.  Viggoloniggolo-style, just the way I like it.  I'm not sure as to gameplay and overall layout, so I want to see if I should continue this or all my efforts will only come to waste.

Now, away with the comments, advice, and criticism!

Another thing I should mention, due to the 1.5 beta testing, I currently am using 1.5 Beta C with the latest version of PolyWorks, I honestly don't know if you can potentially get compatibility errors of some-sort.

[Ekoz]

looks good. but, where are the flags and spawns?

[ElSpec774]

Didn't add them yet

Flag will be in the middle and spawns will mostly be at the sides, two will be in the central area.  Very fast-paced.  If this proves to be worthy to be completed, I will spice this beauty up with some high quality scenery, will be one of the best HTF map out there.

[Ekoz]

some of the paths are really small, you aren't worried people will easily overshoot them?

besides that, this map looks like it's ready to go.

[Wraithlike]

Looking alright, but you need to seriously make changes to the multitude of long hallways, barrett users will lay waste to them, and it will prevent anyone from using them, limiting the map and slowing down gameplay. There are also a lot of hallways that are just slightly too narrow, and it make them difficult to go into when you run while jumping for speed.

The vertical tunnels are also nice for novelty, but they don't lend themselves to positive gameplay. The player tend to bounce off the sides and get stuck, slowing him down, and the abrupt change in direction stops momentum even more. In the instances where they occur, it would be best to shorten them, and make the walls ice, or give them a fairly significant angle with the direction of the intended route.

I have more to add past this, but I want to use an illustraion, so wait a moment.

Edit:



Very Hard to Access
Fairly Difficult to Access
Too Tight
Dangerous Dead End
Hurts Movement

Red, Yellow, and Green areas are all also very succeptable to spray, because the player is given no viable escape route.

Most Yellow areas are because the entrance is in an awkward position relative to the polygons around it. You should make sure they're more easily accessable, and line up with the already existing paths, or are removed.

Purple, and Blue are oft seen flaws in maps of this style, because they're very rigid and angular. The best solution would be to add more gentle curves. To keep with the motif make the slope go from 0 degrees, to 15 degrees, to 30 degrees. This allows for kick jumps and more speed, while still providing potential cover. Blue areas don't have useful viable escape routes

Aditionally, the edges of the structures don't allow for much dynamic movement, and you generally only one option is smooth enough to use. This could be fixed with ramps or gentle curves.

You also need to establish a clear difference between the DC, OPC, and OBC polygons, because they can lead to unescessary confusion.

[ElSpec774]

It's not as large as it seems, you have to be a complete camping ***** to camp on a map this fast-paced and compact.  All of the OPC polygons are the outer ones, leading to outside of the map.  Everything else is DC.

Will post-pone this temporarily, check my ctf_Vicissitude instead.  Want to finish that first and continue this later on.  Next will come inf_Breed and inf_Shears, both zombie maps BTW 

[Eagles_Arrows]

I personally think those "dead ends" Wraithlike pointed out would make some great spawn areas.  I didn't feel that the tunnels were that hard to access when I tested the map; you just have to be able to jet smoothly.  Also, Sam, I don't see how those inclines hurt movement; in fact, I think they aid movement by allowing the player to kickjump and increase acceleration.  And if they don't want to get on the inclines, he/she can just simply jet over them.

Back to the tunnels.  Yeah, there's no denying that Barretards will dominate them, but really, they are not the only ways to get around the map.  Fill the tunnels with colliders.  It won't help prevent Barrett spray (unless you stick some in the ceiling as well), but it should decrease spray by other weapons by a large fraction.  Hell, might as well cover the whole map with those glorious red spheres.

Make the OPC polygons thicker so that we can easily distinguish them from the DCs and curve the corners of the blue areas, like Wraithlike said.

That's all I have to say.

[Wraithlike]

@El Spec: There are at least 4 areas where tunnels in the middle of the map are OPC, and another three that are OBC.
 Also, the tunnels on the sides can be abused by a player throwing the flag and having to wait a fairly time for it to respawn.

@E_A: The problem with the tunnels is that you have to achieve very specific jetting, and can't access them in a timely manner. I could make another image if you'd like to see. The problem with the inclines is that kickjumping off of them will lead you into either a cieling or a wall, and the increased speed just leads to the inablilty to maneuver around them

[Eagles_Arrows]

The problem with the tunnels is that you have to achieve very specific jetting, and can't access them in a timely manner.

You may be right about the inability to access them in time when it comes to nearby firefights, but still, I don't see how the red ones are "very hard" to access.  They're probably some of the easiest to get in.  Besides, it shouldn't take that long to learn how to jet smoothly.

The problem with the inclines is that kickjumping off of them will lead you into either a cieling or a wall, and the increased speed just leads to the inablilty to maneuver around them

So?  A lot of default maps have this issue (eg. Ash, Arena), and I don't think it's that much of a problem.  Also, I only see one incline in this map that may hinder movement which is the bottom right one.  Smooth jetting can help, though. ;p

[Wraithlike]

The very hard area on the right requires a direct change from horizontal to vertical movement. This causes the player to lose almost all their momentum. The second in the left corner is not exactly hard to access, but getting to that area requires the player to jet along the cieling, making them perfectly open to barret-fire, and they remain open as long as any other players are around, thus making the route worthless when alone, and dangerous when in the precense of the enemy.

I think this is a large problem on the maps it exists in, be they default or not. But they're much in this, because the slowdown open up the player to atack which is very bad in maps of this style, and htf in general, where the FC must keep moving.

[Eagles_Arrows]

The very hard area on the right requires a direct change from horizontal to vertical movement.

I believe you mean the one on the left corner.
It's still pretty easy to get in, though; that's what I'm arguing here.
But for fluidity, the only compromise here is to curve the corners and make the tunnel a little bit wider.  Might as well do the same for every other tunnel.  Take note, Spec.

The second in the left corner right is not exactly hard to access, but getting to that area requires the player to jet along the cieling, making them perfectly open to barret-fire

Meh, I'm just saying that that tunnel is easy to enter if you disregard all the campers and whatnot.  Seeing how it's so narrow, though, I don't think it would matter at all if the player were to jet along the ceiling, they'll still be shot.

the slowdown open up the player to atack

The player will be susceptible to attack regardless of how fast he/she moves.

PS: I take it you haven't had much sleep last night? ;p

[Wraithlike]

I actually meant the middle entrance of the upper path in the area on the top left where there are three parallel paths, although there's no good way to enter on either side on my opinion. The same goes for the yellow path under it which requires an incredibly precise jump due to it's tight size.

And I made the diagram based on theoretical ingame situations.

And yes, I'm really tired and it's hard to respond to your difficult and well thought out responses.

[Horve]

does this have something to do with my inf_pain?

[Blue-ninja]

Bahahaha, oh the same texture...

[Laser Guy]

And similar style too...

[ElSpec774]

Inspiration actually, the name was just coincidental.  Sort-of like a tribute map, the only similar thing is the name and the colors.

[Horve]

and the layout style and the texture, doesn't really matter though

my inf_Boiler

[Laser Guy]

Nah, layout is different...

Edit: Well, after Horve posted a screene I see the similarities now...

[ElSpec774]

You just are a HUGE inspiration for me to map, I love your style and every map you make is unique from one another.  Although many people would probably disagree with me, I'd say you're the best mapper or have the most knowledge, along with Boxo.

And with some changes, inf_Boiler can be a great HTF map, same with INF_Pain.

And that current WIP in your signature looks sick, can't wait for it.