Ruger Discussion

[tehsnipah]

INDEED!!!!!!!!! finally someone says the trut...to me is the same deal with ruger 1.5 i get more 3 hit kills...and less 2 hit kills...and ruger should be 2 mandatory cause 3 hits=des so....YEAH BUFF THE RUGER!

It is true that it usually takes 3 shot kills, but hey, think of the good side, at least ruger has longer range than Deagles

[Extacide]

spectate/play some gathers and show me people who play spas/de's with same effectiveness as ruger players (MJ :p).

Go spec an SCTFL playoffs match and tell me how a ruger fares against a triple spray setup as opposed to a spas or desert eagles. You don't know what you're talking about. 'Effectivity' isn't a word.

[Thinkto urself]

Who remembers the thread in the long dead fisting forum called, "Idiots in the weapon balance forum" this is what it was talking about. Instead of just calling eachother idiots and correcting eachothers' grammar (THAT'SMYJOB.) maybe you can start actually discussing the pros and cons of the ruger? This thread is gonna get nowhere if everybody keeps acting like how they act on Page 2 of this thread.

[Ziem]

spectate/play some gathers and show me people who play spas/de's with same effectiveness as ruger players (MJ :p).

Go spec an SCTFL playoffs match and tell me how a ruger fares against a triple spray setup as opposed to a spas or desert eagles. You don't know what you're talking about. 'Effectivity' isn't a word.

In SCTFL people play autos because they're reliable... And of course single ruger against 2-3 autos won't stand a chance to kill at least one without nades.
(effectivness... ;asd)

Ok, let's stop comparing ruger to autos; Your opinion is that auto>ruger, mine is that ruger>auto, and we probably won't change it.
Let's prevent the flamewar and discuss about ruger compared to other semis. In my opinion, ruger is more powerful and easier than deagles, and much more versatile than spas. So... I'd like to see ruger nerfed a bit and other semis buffed.

[STM1993]

STM1993 when you did your testing, was it against bots? if it was, I want you to keep in mind that bots doesn't move at the same speed as actual players. thus making less damage.

a soldat can run in about 30 speed. making both run towards eachother you will have to add 60. but adding 30-40 is more realisitc.

Current damage is 252 (too high), 1.5 balance most likely 246.

Yes, it was against NON-MOVING dummy bots, as well as actual bots. I also tried it in a fistbox against some of the human players (non-god-moder and non-vest and they did not use healing guns). Ruger is a long-ranged damage weapon, yet it takes 3 shots to kill someone even at mid-range. That isn't right... the damage nerf it is given is too much... I suggest between 248-250.



In Soldat, its a scissors vs rock vs paper situation:
Semis are great against Autos
Autos are great against 1-hitters
1-hitters are great against Semis

I won't really compare a Ruger to the autos since semis are meant to be stronger than autos, though harder to master and are much less popular.

I like the Ruger. It's effective at any range, and very strong provided you are fighting against a single opponent or 2-3 injured opponents, able to kill in 2 shots. What is its disadvantage? It has a low ammo count, and the fireinterval is slowest of all semi-autos. It demands from the player a great deal of aiming ability and patience. I don't like the 1.5 balance because it changes the Ruger until it becomes like the DEs.

You can argue that the Desert Eagles are pretty versatile too, but it is actually pretty different from the Ruger. DEs have high damage, but they ALWAYS kill in 3-shots (6 bullets) against a full-health opponent (2-hit DE kills are extremely rare, you must be very lucky and be at close range), whereas Ruger has a chance of killing in 2 good shots as long as almost within your screen's longest view but guaranteed to kill in 3. DEs shoot faster than the Ruger (23 vs 40). The DEs have low bullet speed and therefore the bullet loses damage quickly over a long distance and even worse - the two bullets may spread out a bit, resulting in only having one DE bullet hit, so you do the damage of about a Socom shot at long range rather than the usual damage if both bullets have hit. However, the bullet speed creates this awkward curve, which can be used to the user's advantage in rough terrain. Ruger? The bullet speed is pretty high, the bullet flies pretty straight, and one shot is one bullet from the Ruger, not two bullets. DEs have 7 ammo, while Ruger has 4 - meaning DEs can kill 2 opponents pretty easily, but for the Ruger missing just one shot usually means you can't kill a second person. Desert Eagles reload faster, Ruger reloads slower.

What does the 1.5 balance do? It lowers the damage, so the chance of getting 3-hit kills is far greater than 2-hit kills, basically making Ruger less able to kill at long range, perhaps even mid-range. A shorter reload would mean that the Ruger's ammo problems aren't as severe. That's kinda like making the Ruger simply a longer-ranged version of DEs. That's why I'd like to see the Ruger retain its strong firepower (or a slight nerf to damage), but made slower in one sense so that ammo becomes more of a problem. That would enforce the Ruger's uniqueness, yet balancing it.

The semis are almost untouched except the very popular Ruger, though I'm beginning to see slightly more Spas-users while the DE-users are still almost extinct. DEs are simply the most difficult semis to use, Spas is pretty situational, Ruger is simple to use yet effective at almost any situation. Ruger needs a nerf for sure, the other semis could use a slight buff (Spas could use a slight decrease in bullet speed but for more damage and bullet push rather than just a pure buff).



Realistic-wise, all semi-autos (except Socom) are actually considered one-hitters. They are slower and given greater recoil, so that a single mistake leads them to be completely wiped out by any auto user. The realistic Ruger is fine in the sense that it is already very slow, though its firepower is debatable but considered quite okay.

[Extacide]

Your comparison of the Ruger against Desert Eagles is slightly correct, except you forgot one major point. Desert Eagles don't have any bink, and no noticeable  Move Acc, meaning they have full reign to rush an auto user without being binked, and without misfiring due to Move Acc. The ruger on the other hand is a very defensive weapon that DOES get binked when sprayed perfectly, and requires crisp timing to rush properly, and fires more slowly with less bullets. Desert Eagles were built to rush auto users to their face. Rugers get massacred. Thats the advantage Desert Eagles have in this game of Rock-Paper-Scissors as you have properly termed it.

[STM1993]

True Extacide, movementacc is also a big factor there which makes Ruger more defensive and DEs more offensive other than the bullet speed. I missed that out.

About bink, bink barely affects the Ruger and bink will be completely removed from the Ruger in future. That's why I didn't mention bink.

[Mallow007]

U are forgeting someting...that allmost all kills are med/close range so actually RUGER>autos because of the  NADE + HIT combo= instant dead only spaz hm5 can battle against ruger

[Thinkto urself]

U are forgeting someting...that allmost all kills are med/close range so actually RUGER>autos because of the  NADE + HIT combo= instant dead only spaz hm5 can battle against ruger

Where the hell are YOU getting YOUR statistics?

[STM1993]

U are forgeting someting...that allmost all kills are med/close range so actually RUGER>autos because of the  NADE + HIT combo= instant dead only spaz hm5 can battle against ruger

Not really. There are quite a lot of long-ranged shots too. The nade combo is more effective with autos rather than semis. I don't really see a point in wasting a grenade with a semi because a semi has relatively good DPS and high damage per shot to take out enemies by itself (good semi-users are expected not to miss a single shot), while autos tend to have slightly lower DPS since it has lower damage per shot and needs pretty concentrated fire (auto-users tend to miss some shots here and there). I believe that most semi-users also use nades less often than auto-users for the same reasons, unless they are really in a hurry.

Any weapon can go against the Ruger! It's just that every weapon has its pros and cons, and perhaps the Ruger has its pro vs another gun's con.

Ruger's advantages:
1. High Damage (2-3 hit kill)
2. Long Range (only Barrett and LAW can match its long range)
3. Very High DPS (even though firing rate is a bit slow)
4. You are a nightmare to any escaping enemy - especially those who are bleeding.

Ruger's disadvantages:
1. Low ammo (though reload is relatively decent)
2. Ruger's DPS is not as good as close-ranged weapons when at close-range. Even if it is a bit higher, wouldn't good close-range-weapon-users always attempt to catch you by surprise?
3. You are only efficient against single-targets - if you are ganged you're dead.
4. It has movementacc, so you wouldn't really be seeing a Ruger-user charge at you really swiftly and shooting at the same time - he will tend to be slower since he needs to take aim, slow down a bit, fire, then move.

Note about Ruger: It's a DEFENSIVE weapon.

[Extacide]

U are forgeting someting...that allmost all kills are med/close range so actually RUGER>autos because of the  NADE + HIT combo= instant dead only spaz hm5 can battle against ruger

Uh, no.

1. Only 50% of kills are med/close range, the other half start from screen distance.

2. ANY gun can pull off the "NADE+HIT" combo. It's the grenade, not the weapon that makes this possible. The grenade takes 80% of their life, and every gun besides Barret, M79 and Minigun has a fast enough DPS to finish them off. The autos kill just as fast as the Ruger does.

3. HK/Steyr/Spas/Minimi/M79 > Ruger at close range.

4. At a range, Ruger > HK/Spas.

2. Long Range (only Barrett and LAW can match its long range)

The list is bigger. AK47, Minimi, depending on the user Desert Eagles, and the steyr (including AK and Minimi) outranges the Ruger by a mile. The fact that they have so much more bullets to spray at a concentrated offscreen target before the Ruger even sees it coming gives them the utmost superiority. Even when they don't have the offscreen advantage (such as wide open air) where its too difficult to predict their position, they can match Ruger's range.

[STM1993]

Ahh, I understand your point about that.

But about DEs, DEs have very slow bullets, and the bullets tend to split when travelling far away and quite a lot of damage power is lost over a long distance, that's why I wouldn't agree that DEs can match Ruger in range.



The reason why I say Ruger's range tend to outmatch other weapons is actually mostly due to the damage it does - Damage and Bullet Speed kinda come hand in hand to determine the range of a weapon (Compare DEs against MP5 and Socom. They have similar bullet speed, but the damage difference makes the DEs actually more efficient for range.)

Autos need concentrated fire, but chances are you miss quite a lot at long range. Ruger just needs a single shot to hit (chances are high in the hands of a good-enough user) and all the work done is equivalent to a dozen of bullets from an auto (to hit, to guide aiming, to spray, and those that missed). Ruger has higher bullet speed, so it reaches the enemy first and makes dodging harder compared to other weapons, that's another. This would mean that the Ruger's DPS compared to the autos over longer distances is actually superior. This is why I say that Ruger is superior in range compared to the autos.

[Extacide]

But about DEs, DEs have very slow bullets, and the bullets tend to split when travelling far away and quite a lot of damage power is lost over a long distance, that's why I wouldn't agree that DEs can match Ruger in range.

But heres the thing. They have no bink or moveacc. They can rush to a ruger's face and close the gap within sure-fire grenade distance before the ruger can land three shots. If they land two and kill him, the ruger is most likely 30% HP left. There are really good desert eagle users that can pull this off by rushing extremely fast and being accurate enough to land shots starting from off screen up to their face. Thats how DES work. You also forget to account for the fact that the ruger will generally be traveling towards the DES user as well to help close the gap, unless they're back pedaling and playing extremely defensive at which point the desert eagles have no chance, but there are VERY few people who break a rush in a clan war to do this.

I'm not saying the desert eagles are superior, but I am saying in the right hands they can compare skill versus skill.

Autos need concentrated fire, but chances are you miss quite a lot at long range.

You haven't played any of the best steyr users. Its very easy to spray a target off screen and land 75% of your bullets. THAT, is enough to kill someone. The nature of the steyr is that it pushes the target, so all you need to do is aim a little further down bit by bit as you spray, or spray in one direction if they try to fly up. Theres literally no escape when you have a bead on a target on/off screen. Theres EXTREMELY good players that can do this, so your experience and logic greatly contradicts mine. So no, off screen spray when you know where they are is much more accurate then that.

Ruger has higher bullet speed, so it reaches the enemy first and makes dodging harder compared to other weapons

100% wrong. It has very FEW bullets. The bullet speed doesn't make a difference if the guy aiming doesn't know where to put it. It is extremely easy to throw a Ruger off through MANY methods. It is one of the easiest weapons to "dodge" aside from the M79, and force them into a reload.

This is why I say that Ruger is superior in range compared to the autos.

The Ruger is not superior; it's balanced with autos. They both have an equal chance of killing each other from maximum range. If you'd like to test this theory against me I'd gladly show you.

[~Niko~]

I'm a ruger noob and I still can kill more people with it than with sniper.... it needs no skill to be used, and it has huge damage and speed, but if you miss these 4 shots, and have no secondarie you are done. I think it should have some less damage

[Extacide]

I'm a ruger noob and I still can kill more people with it than with sniper

Uh, Ruger has four bullets. Barret has one. You do the math buddy.

it needs no skill to be used

If you can match my skill 1v1, then I'll acknowledge your statement.

[TD]

I think all the soldat weapons are underpowered, but that's just me. I like the ruger, though I never use it.

This entire post is paradoxial. If all weapons are underpowered, then they are all balanced and none are underpowered. Also, if you like the ruger, but never use it, how can you like it if you've never used it. Do you like how it looks?

[-Major-]

There are 3 versions of the semi auto guns, long, medium and short range.
All the semi autos can do the instant kill combo with 1 nade + 1 hit from either of the 3 guns.

Ruger 77 is the long range version, where it's 2-3 hit kill from long distance.

Desert Eagles are the medium range version, as it's almost always 3 hits kill, can be 2 hit kill if speed is applied and is head shots, can also be 4 hit kill if it's a long range..

Spas 12 is the short range version, as it can kill in 2 hits, and it's fire rate is greater than the Rugers. from distance spas is almost useless, as it takes many hits to kill your target.
It is also given the push and extreme bink because of it's short range, and it got a special reload.

[Mallow007]

Uh, no.

1. Only 50% of kills are med/close range, the other half start from screen distance

3. HK/Steyr/Spas/Minimi/M79 > Ruger at close range.

4. At a range, Ruger > HK/Spas.

2. Long Range (only Barrett and LAW can match its long range)

Lol
Fail Stery at close range with a ruger...is a lose for sure, what stery got vs ruger is the bink...get close and ur dead...same goes for minimi and m79...well that's a 1 hit weapons i hits>semis...if they manage to don't miss.

Same for hm5 and spaz...just stay a but out of they range of fire and they are dead for sure...

About the 50% of the kills being at close range...is 75% nothing less...why do u think NADES are the most effective way to kill and the weapon with the more kills in snag stat, even if all of the ppl use barret, the kills will still be at close range since barret is most used at close/me range.

[-Major-]

nades is used by everone, everyone isn't running around with a lets say minimi.

and even at close range ruger can easily beat a steyr, it all comes down to the location and surroundings.

[Mallow007]

But here is the thing. They have no bink or moveacc. They can rush to a ruger's face and close the gap within sure-fire grenade distance before the ruger can land three shots. If they land two and kill him, the ruger is most likely 30% HP left. There are really good desert eagle users that can pull this off by rushing extremely fast and being accurate enough to land shots starting from off screen up to their face. Thats how DES work. You also forget to account for the fact that the ruger will generally be traveling towards the DES user as well to help close the gap, unless they're back pedaling and playing extremely defensive at which point the desert eagles have no chance, but there are VERY few people who break a rush in a clan war to do this.

I'm not saying the desert eagles are superior, but I am saying in the right hands they can compare skill versus skill.

Autos need concentrated fire, but chances are you miss quite a lot at long range.

You haven't played any of the best steyr users. Its very easy to spray a target off screen and land 75% of your bullets. THAT, is enough to kill someone. The nature of the steyr is that it pushes the target, so all you need to do is aim a little further down bit by bit as you spray, or spray in one direction if they try to fly up. Theres literally no escape when you have a bead on a target on/off screen. Theres EXTREMELY good players that can do this, so your experience and logic greatly contradicts mine. So no, off screen spray when you know where they are is much more accurate then that.

Ruger has higher bullet speed, so it reaches the enemy first and makes dodging harder compared to other weapons

100% wrong. It has very FEW bullets. The bullet speed doesn't make a difference if the guy aiming doesn't know where to put it. It is extremely easy to throw a Ruger off through MANY methods. It is one of the easiest weapons to "dodge" aside from the M79, and force them into a reload.

This is why I say that Ruger is superior in range compared to the autos.

The Ruger is not superior; it's balanced with autos. They both have an equal chance of killing each other from maximum range. If you'd like to test this theory against me I'd gladly show you.


[/quote]

1-About Des...lol
2-About autos spraying lol 2
3-About ruger speed and ruger >autos...LOL 3

Dude for real, ruger and des can be attacking weapons as u say in ur post EXTREMELY good players can do ANYTHING. I've play with good players who use ruger and FFS is rly annoying cause they OWN,about des good users well they own too is not that des>ruger is just des have MORE BULLETS so u have more chance to hit something or let someone wounded, and ruger can leave u at 1 hit to be kill by an auto and can HIT U off screen...so lol.

About autos spraying...LOOOOOL man EXTREMELY good players do actually spray very good but if u are that STUPID to go in a predictable pattern u deserve to be killed.

Ruger speed...well ruger bulles travel more fast than auto bullets so they can reach u faster and kill u before any auto spray.

About autos>ruger...well i think ur wrong Autos>1hit>semis>autos...so i LOL´D with ur post