Graffiti- Art or senseless vandalism?

[Pie]

I've been wondering about this just recently, I like to think of myself as some kind of urban artist, I like to paint up boards in my backyard and sketch in a pad, but i've never gone as far as bombing trains and walls, Maybe a tag here and there, but nothing drastic.

I've been watching some youtube videos and i've been thinking "wow, those things that those artist's do are pretty cool, maybe I can do that one day." And then I remember that a lot of people see graffiti as a crime for punks and vandals. Do you think that vandalism is a crime?

Personally, I think that as long as the artists don't start bombing up shops and private property that it shouldn't be a problem, some people are brilliant at this kind of thing. Recently I took a trip up to a water tower near where I live and it was covered in paint, every inch had a name and a piece of art, it was brimming with culture. There were all types of styles and pieces, artist showing how good they were, competing for space and complementing the best of the best. It's a real culture and an important part of the city life style. I don't mean to say people who cause hundreds of dollar's worth of damage by bombing cars and houses, but those artists that keep to public areas and areas where only graffers go. It saddened me to see the council painting over pieces that were almost 10 years old.

What is your take on graffiti art, is it a culture, or is it a crime?

[Hair|Trigger]

It should be left to the professionals in my opinion. 

A couple of initials on a billboard or shopping center looks REALLY bad.  Also, offensive things in public places are absolutely disgusting.

I've seen some really nice stuff though, online and things, but not on walls or anything.  I also liked the Neversoft logo made by the creators of the THUG2 game, that was probably done with a permit, which is good and all.  Really cool actually. 

It's one reason I hate cities *cough*Brissy*cough*.  But to be honest, you see it anywhere that teenagers live.  Even in small country towns, you're bound to see at least one tag on a pub somewhere.  It's just that places like Brisbane, you see it on every corner all over the walls, on peoples fences, trains/train stations.. with security cameras..

But the artistic side I dont mind.  I've just never seen anything spray painted on a wall that was worth putting there..

[Pie]

I can answer why you never see decent graffiti...

The graffiti that draws attention usually get's painted over first, so generally the stuff that's worth being put up get's taken down as fast as possible, and this is helped by the queensland governments council, in the respect that they do their job fast, but not well.

There are works that are commissioned by shops and owners of houses for graff artists to paint, but that opportunity is only given to the best and a train is a faster way to get better both artistically and socially.

To be hones, I agree with you in the sense that most artworks aren't there to look pretty as much as to draw attention, an ugly piece of art will gain the same, if not more attention if it's put in the right place, which i think drvies some people who may not be very good to paint up public places.

If any solution would work, i would think that there should be places for artists to go and paint in an environment that would give the same feeling as painting on a wall, but would not be illegal, or shoved in anybody's faces if they didn't want to see it.

And places like that do exists, but not nearly enough of them are around, and those that are around are dominated by people who are either bad artistically or socially, that or the complete opposite.

But i suppose that defeats the purpose of writing on a wall that you shouldn't be writing on...

[echo_trail]

I love graffiti all the way to the bottom of my heart, and I hate that it's referred to as 'vandalism'. I can see where it's coming from, but it's important to understand that 'vandalism' only really is true for a part of it. I used to run around tagging everywhere, 'cause I thought I was rebelling against the man and stuff, thought I was sticking up for my art. That is vandalism. I now realise that all I was doing was damaging it, by giving it a bad glow in public. There are real artists out there, people who are devoted to it, people who truely bring graffiti to the level of art.

As you said already, Urban Art is often linked by the public to little punks who have nothing better to do(such as me, as it were). This is a disaster in terms of culture, 'cause it has so much more to it. Urban Art is a way of expressing oneself, like a streetpoet.

It should be left to the professionals in my opinion.  

Please no. As any art, graffiti is meant for everyone and anyone, and so it should be accesible for anyone as well. I'm not saying people should just be allowed to run around pasting their newcomer crap on trains and sidawalks, but certain places should be made for that. Already in Denmark we have certain parks that are generally preserved for the youth, in which you are also allowed to paint. Skateparks, certain concert spots.. and it really works too. Durting the 70's and 80's, Denmark was overflowed by a Punk Generation, painting everywhere, wrecking public facilities.. promoting anarchy in an almost underground kinda way. Despite recent attempts to revive that mentality(which failed), we are now living in a society that accepts graffiti in certain places, as the art that it really is. I just wish this approach could spread.

EDIT:
Vandalism:


Urban art:

[Pie]

That's cool, I can't speak for the rest of the world, but I can speak for what I've seen in Australia, In Australia, most skate parks are considered off limits, Like i said, the only place i've seen graffiti run free is at the water towers, and even so, people still find it unacceptable away from public areas.

It's a shame that it has such a bad representation, like you said, there's much more to graffiti than tagging and bombing for rep.

[Hair|Trigger]

It should be left to the professionals in my opinion.  

Please no. As any art, graffiti is meant for everyone and anyone, and so it should be accesible for anyone as well. I'm not saying people should just be allowed to run around pasting their newcomer crap on trains and sidawalks, but certain places should be made for that. Already in Denmark we have certain parks that are generally preserved for the youth, in which you are also allowed to paint. Skateparks, certain concert spots.. and it really works too. Durting the 70's and 80's, Denmark was overflowed by a Punk Generation, painting everywhere, wrecking public facilities.. promoting anarchy in an almost underground kinda way. Despite recent attempts to revive that mentality(which failed), we are now living in a society that accepts graffiti in certain places, as the art that it really is. I just wish this approach could spread.

EDIT:
Vandalism:
-img-

Urban art:
-img-

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about..

I didn't try to say that only the urban artists get to do it, newbies could practice on some ply wood or something right? then once it looks alright they could take it to dull looking walls and possibly do the council a favor

as for vandals, just stay the hell out of it >_>

That's what would make graffiti in general more worth looking at etc.  Even though it'll never happen, and people will never accept it on the streets in general

[echo_trail]

Still, I don't think they will ever be able to combat graffiti down. by the way, why don't you show some of the stuff you've been making?

[Pie]

I'll scan some of my lame sketches and try to get a few photos of me and my brothers work.

Do you have any work at all?

[echo_trail]

No, I gave that up years ago. not that I ever amde anything worth saving anyway.

[Mangled*]

Vandalism:


Urban art:

This pretty much sums it up. Simply tagging profanity and marking buildings and walls is vandalism. I wouldn't go trying to clean it up or paint over it or anything though because often gangs have tags which they use to mark their territory.

What I find is that vandals who do tag, won't tag over artwork. They tend to appreciate it and have respect for the artist. Which I find is quite charming street etiquette.

[UnknownSniper]

Image 2 is just boards(looks like ply wood) propped up in front of a wall, so it can't really be a valid argument since the majority of the posts were based around "art" on public buildings.

[LtKillroy]

It IS a crime, but I also find it very cool. I wouldn't ever do it though.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

Whether or not graffiti is well done and artistic is irrelevant; if it's done without permission on someone else's property, it's vandalism.  You could sort of compare it to telling a joke at a funeral; it could be the funniest joke in the world, but that's just not the right setting for it.

If people are talented street artists, that's great, but they should restrict their art to their own property unless otherwise asked.

[Smegma]

No, the vandals are just dadaists.

[tehsnipah]

If from pros, they're probably the best work of art. If for sucky drawers, yeah.... What echo showed.

[jarno_jukka]

I think echo_trail pretty much summed it up.
some is art, but when they deface things it's not art anymore.
this place in melbourne they have encouraged graffiti: http://www.melbournegraffiti.com/street/Hosier/hosier_street.htm

[Gnoblar]

There should be set areas where graffiti is allowed, the stuff on the streets and on walls and on bus/train windows just looks F*** ugly. I personally haven't seen any "Urban Art" Which would call cool, but I just don't like the style, But I can appreciate the art. The vandals should just go and die, it would make life so much easier.

[echo_trail]

However, I reckon every art has it's light and dark side. It's what makes great art, well.. great! Take rapping(yes, again with the rapping) for instance. To me, most rappers are mainstream, talentless wannabe's with no sence of originality or quality, especially gangstarappers. But that just makes it so much better when someone with new ideas and lots of talent comes along. I loved what Eminem did, I thought it was really good. Too bad he blew it up on his latest album. Anywho, it's the same with Graffiti/Urban Art, which is also why lowlife taggers have so much repsect for artistic paintings.

[Pie]

In regards to that, I think that if there were no tags and scrawls all over the walls than it wouldn't make good urban art stand out, if everyone was dedicated to hitting up trains and bombing walls than there would be no individual style, well there would, but it would be copied too easily. It shows such a massive contrast between the graffiti lifestyle.

I think that tagging is important to the process, to be honest, many great artists started out by scrawling on the back windows of buses and tagging bathroom stalls and shop windows, you do it, you learn from it, you develop a style and you move to proper letters and it evolves, everyone started out as a tagger, just like everyone started out looking like crap, you keep doing it and you get better and better.

I also think it shows the amount people are dedicated to the art. Some people tag up stuff, then move on to other hobbies, but those people that are dedicated move on from that to bigger things and they take it more seriously.



Edit: Sorry, it's so big, the scan didn't look that massive on my computer, but yeah, some alright stuff, I'm no divinci or anything...

[echo_trail]

That's not half bad, mate. What's "INO" if you don't mind me asking?