STM1993's Simple Weapons Analysis [Normal]

[Gotfryd]

He said

(grenades included, but cluster grenades not included)

Maybe because majority of players think that clusters suck.

[STM1993]

He said

(grenades included, but cluster grenades not included)

Maybe because majority of players think that clusters suck.

Clusters are pretty difficult to use (the angles in which the shrapnel fly out) and I find them pretty unreliable in many cases. You might want to just try it on your own and determine for yourself if it suits your style or not. Whatever it is, you probably won't see bonuses often online, and clusters will probably be the least popular. It's true that most people think clusters suck, I believe that it is simply not reliable compared to normal grenades.

[Gnoblar]

AK - Because it is an all-rounder, versatile, has high ammo, proven to be pretty versatile.[/li][/list]

A versatile gun that's pretty versatile.

Well, this is a great thread, but other than show off your extensive knowledge of weaponry and geniusness, what does it do? No "n00bs" are going to read this, the people who will ar ethe people who have already selected their fav weapon or already know the strengths/weaknesses. It's pretty pointless, yet impressive none the less.

[STM1993]

A versatile gun that's pretty versatile.

Fixed.

Well, this is a great thread, but other than show off your extensive knowledge of weaponry and geniusness, what does it do? No "n00bs" are going to read this, the people who will ar ethe people who have already selected their fav weapon or already know the strengths/weaknesses. It's pretty pointless, yet impressive none the less.

It's a guide, it's up to anyone to read it, it only gives you an idea, the rest is up to the player to experience - and experience > teaching (though experience usually comes with a heavier price). But I won't be surprised to see that even the more experienced players may become indecisive about their guns or tend to get the wrong idea about their guns.

Thanks for the feedback! =D

[Gotfryd]

I have a dream that one day Soldat would have a built-in tutorial and would be overall more user-friendly.
If this ever happens, STM's guide would be helpful in creating that tuorial (apart from being helpful to players now).

[KYnetiK]

Clusters can prove useful but in very few situations, usually surprise attacks.

I find them great to throw into the mouths of tunnels if timed right.

Another favourite is during an air duel, the enemy chases you to the ground and you slam clusters into the ground, so that the enemy lands on them before they spread.

If you have a bit of speed, this added velocity can make the clusters 'slide' quite nicely if you throw at right angle. Can be a nifty surprise to a rusher.

Apart from that, they usually only pose as an airstrike type thing to keep enemy out of a certain area.

Clusters can be great, but the opportunities that they really shine arent always common.

[Gnoblar]

It's a guide, it's up to anyone to read it, it only gives you an idea, the rest is up to the player to experience - and experience > teaching (though experience usually comes with a heavier price). But I won't be surprised to see that even the more experienced players may become indecisive about their guns or tend to get the wrong idea about their guns.

Thanks for the feedback! =D

Fair Enough, it's an excellent idea.

No Problem.

[adam01526]

Make a competitive weapon guide. People want to get better, and competitive is probably the only way to go.

I think that a realistic guide would be better due to the difference in the weapons. People who are new to soldat might be confused about it. Also realistic is an awesome mode that is often over looked.

Very nice guide well done.

[STM1993]

Thank you.

Oh, for realistic or realistic/survival, I'm not experienced in them, so that makes it difficult for me to actually write a guide. But if you think about it, the weapons are still more or less the same as described, they are generally similar. The general difference is, there is actual recoil in the weapons. Another difference is due to the Soldat's lower HP in realistic, the weapons would then appear to do more damage (about twice as much), and 1-hitters would therefore be less useful. Don't forget falling damage which usually comes into play due to explosions and bullet push.

[Gnoblar]

I think this thread should be stickied.

[demoniac93]

Ekhm, Saw=fun only...
Knife=unless you got SKILL, don't, i mean don't use it...
LAW=good for ctf quick-stop situations and taking out flaggers\others with calculated shots\ricochets...
U.S Soccom= great tactical weapon, good for taking out weakened enemies when you're reloading...

[croat1gamer]

saw=/=fun ONLY

http://www.badongo.com/file/13392700

where is your god now
90% saw only here

[-Major-]

saw is more or less for fun, I never use saw in a serious cw. and it's hard to put the weapons in diffrent categories. as barrett is an excellent alt rout weapon, as it's a 1-hit kill, and as it's extremely dangerous to have one in your base if there's 2 or less ppl in it. so it could also be seen as an offensive weapon, but if we would think this way, almost all weapons would end up in the hybrid list.

you may as well add a list of flag hunting weapons, and flag holding weapons.

[STM1993]

you may as well add a list of flag hunting weapons, and flag holding weapons.

Those weapons that have long range capabilities are generally the flag hunters. Flag-holders are more of the short ranged weapons like Spas.

The bullet push may cause your flag-hunting ability to backfire (pushes the enemy faster and further) if you are using an auto, but compensates with the ability to spray.

The only exception to the rule in the first paragraph of this post is the XM214 Minigun.
1. Its bullet push slows down enemies pretty well, but can also push enemy flaggers very well (major backfire).
2. Spraying with the minigun is highly ineffective if you intend to kill with it.
3. Its better for minigun-surfing to boost yourself away.

[Vos]

Very nice, however a knife can kill with almost no force at all and at medium/long range :F but still, very nice

[STM1993]

however a knife can kill with almost no force at all and at medium/long range

May be possible if your enemy is below you (due to gravity) and the knife hits his head, or if his health is low. However, in practice, this is usually not possible, chances are you'd hit either the body or the legs.

Thank you for the feedback and comment, gladly appreciated.


EDIT (4/3/09) 4th March 2009:
I'll update this guide once the official version of 1.5 with the final weapons balance is released. I think I'd also like to add more info.

EDIT (30/5/09) 30th May 2009:
I consider writing another weapons guide - a weapons application guide. Now that you have an idea on how the weapons are like, we can move on to learning how to use the weapons in actual combat. It'd not be coming anytime soon though, have to focus more on studies even though I'm around often.

[AntiHero]

Greatest GUIDE! O_O

[demoniac93]

Well no offense STM, you rock at this kind of stuff, but to me soldat has become simpler than numbers, like bullet speed etc.
The best guide is playing, this might simply help you pick your playing style but you should add more analysis for the situations in which certain weapons are preferred etc...To make it complete.

[-Major-]

Special Case – XM214 Minigun
The XM214 is not really a killing machine – it’s a support weapon – more on the defensive side. It has no range rating because at close range, it is able to kill really fast but it has a terrible startup time. At mid-range, it works okay, but it is much weaker and bink will give it problems and every other gun can defeat it. At long-range, the gun can actually be used to spray but it can do almost nothing. The main purpose of the minigun is to push back enemies as well as to bink them (making them inaccurate).

the main point with the Minigun is boosting. now when it was buffed it can be used for damage as well. but it's still mainly for boosting (oneself)

also considering defending weapons and offensive. imho MP5 is a great weapon  for defending, due to it's high damage and low speed (since it'll cause rushing opponents taking slightly more damage) and weapons like Aug and Minimi being more of the offensive autos.
Minimi does slightly less damage than Aug, but can be fired for more twice as long.

[STM1993]

The best guide is playing, this might simply help you pick your playing style but you should add more analysis for the situations in which certain weapons are preferred etc...To make it complete.

I already stated that somewhere in this thread that guides are just guides (to give players a better theoretical view of the game); it doesn't help improve so instead of just reading guides, players should practice on their own. Plus, this guide is a general description of the weapons rather than one for applications. I intend to write a separate guide for application/analysis (which would be a lot more useful) but I may not have time for it at the moment.

Thanks for the feedback.

also considering defending weapons and offensive. imho MP5 is a great weapon  for defending, due to it's high damage and low speed (since it'll cause rushing opponents taking slightly more damage) and weapons like Aug and Minimi being more of the offensive autos.
Minimi does slightly less damage than Aug, but can be fired for more twice as long.

The classification is not strict, just in general.

The MP5 wouldn't be very good at defense in general due to its low bullet speed, which means short range. However, it should work at defense if it is at a choke point where you are on a higher level and the terrain is such that your bullets can curve down to hit your opponents while they cannot shoot directly at you. The recent removal of self-bink would further aid this for accuracy.


The new Aug is more offensive, now that the bullet push is taken away and has reduced ammo, but it should still work defensively to a small extent since it has the range and is a strong deterrent.


The Minimi actually has better DOT and DPS and bullet speed than the Aug, but the Minimi's inherent movement inaccuracy compared to the Aug's lack of it makes a big difference, plus the Minimi's DOT is reliant on damage of individual bullets rather than by raw firing rate, so missing would dent the Minimi's firepower. I counted the Minimi as a more defensive weapon in the guide because it suffers movementacc.

It is expected that if the gun is offensive, then it should have little movementacc so that the user can charge without having his accuracy affected. If the gun is defensive, it'd have high movementacc to prevent users from running a lot - they have to stop to shoot if they want to be accurate.

For the Minimi's case, it can also make use of the self-bink to be accurate when moving, but waiting for the self-bink to override the movementacc can take a while and it costs the Minimi a lot of ammo in the process. That would mean it works better for long engagements, that is a more defensive play style. Offensive play would be short engagements - the Minimi is not suited for such or at least, not as well suited as the other guns.