Nerf Votekick

[iPod]

First, let me say that I've just returned to Soldat after over a year of not playing and it saddens me to see this game in such a pathetic state. There are hardly any good standard servers for the US, and the servers that are around are heavily modded or some third party game mode. The players are mostly punks and griefers. [/rant]

That being said,  I don't think the votekick feature should be able to issue a ban, even temporary. We can all agree that having a bad egg in a server with no admins around can be a pain, but the problem is that this doesn't occur, ever. The only way this feature is ever used is being abused to kick people out for no or bad reasons. I'd say 9 out of 10 times I see a votekick come up the reason is "dumb", "retard", "noob" etc.

Giving the ability to ban people to 10 year old griefers is an astonishingly bad idea, servers need this removed and should be heavily moderated with a good admin presence instead.

TLDR:
1. Remove the ban on votekick -or-
 - make it require something like 3 consecutive votekicks to work. Lower ban time to ~30 minutes
2. Log all votekicks on the server for moderation purposes:
-IP and name of the person who started the vote.
-Vote reason
-IP and name of the person being kicked
-Vote tallies (yes/no)
 If then, there is a legitimate kick an admin can review and take further action. If its not, the admin can review and do something about the griefers.
3. Implement a list that admins can add people to, to make them immune to votekicks
 - While we're add it, a similar feature for votemaps.

[homerofgods]

why don't you play gathers, that will solve your problem.
I think you are more angry at the people playing, then the votekick. can't change the people, so go to gathers where we are more civilized

[iPod]

why don't you play gathers, that will solve your problem.
I think you are more angry at the people playing, then the votekick. can't change the people, so go to gathers where we are more civilized

Because I shouldn't HAVE to use "gathers" to play the game. I should be able to use the server lobby like any other game out there, join into a server and then play without dealing with a problem that is easily solved with some simple mechanical changes to how a feature works.

I'm not "angry" with the votekick, I just think its a little too much power to give to a pub community like Soldat's, so it should be toned down. Trust me when I say that I know the people I deal with will be no different, but at least they will be restricted to being immature in chat where I can mute them this way instead of being able to abuse and grief people for jollies.

[homerofgods]

would you agree that the vote system is ok if used maturely? we can't make the system based on that the people are retards.
I also didn't like to get votekicked for ''hax'' or ''noob'', but seriously.. if it bothers you that much play gathers or kick them before they kick you. that's my final word in this argument, argue with someone else if you think you actually have a chanse of making this happen.

[iPod]

would you agree that the vote system is ok if used maturely? we can't make the system based on that the people are retards.

Yes, -if-... -IF- it is used maturely, it's alright. But that's a big if.

From experience I believe it's the opposite. Systems need to be made on the assumption that the players will always find whatever flaws, exploits, and abuses are possible and use them to their ends. All the avenues need to be covered, you can never assume people will use something the way it was meant to.

Edit: I shouldn't have to kick them back as a defense, that's absurd. The problem needs to be dealt with at the base level.

[BombSki]

disagreed, the votekick feature is fine. a log like you suggested it a nice idea, but you could just support onvotestart and onvoteend functions on the dedi server and you could make it yourself.
another thing that has been suggested is making 2 vote%'s, 1 for maps and 1 for kicks

[~Niko~]

dude, i'm wondering what servers do you play in. Also, lobby is very big, if a server doesn't likes you, join another. that easy.

[LtKillroy]

You haven't played with a hacker lately, have you? F11.

[iPod]

You haven't played with a hacker lately, have you? F11.

Votekick is only a temporary measure, it wont actually stop a hacker. Hell, they can just reset their router if they have a dynamic IP - If there is a hacker then the server admins need to be contacted.

To the person above, I am in the US, there are not a lot of US servers playing standard ctf that are populated. So you see, I really dont have a choice where I go as I'm lucky to even find a server to play on in the first place. If I were in europe I would have more choice, but I'm not.
I even join empty servers in hopes of getting them populated, but I can sit there for an hour or two and hardly anyone will even join, much less fill the server.

[iPod]

dude, sna.gather. stfu

Best be leavin' mah thread, troll.

[amb2010]

dude, sna.gather. stfu

How many times must he say he doesn't want to play in a gather? Imo gathers are a waste of time, back to the topic. No matter what happens to the votekick feature people will always be stupid and vote people out just because they get killed by them.

[LtKillroy]

@ iPod again.
You can do the same thing, changing your router adress takes 3 seconds. So why do we need to nerf votekick if it barely works as it is now. Thoug we do need to be able to log this for admin reasons, who was votekicked by who and their reason.

[Blue-ninja]

If they could separate the different logs in the cpanels, I'd like to see the votekicks logs added.

[SpiltCoffee]

How about increasing the votekick percentage to 100%, or near enough to it to require pretty much the whole server to say F12? That way, if you do get kicked, you can go somewhere else knowing that everyone in that server is completely retarded.

[KYnetiK]

Im perplexed on this one.

On one hand, iPod raises a valid point. When you design anything for the masses, you cant count on people doing the right thing and have to cater for the smegheads.

But on the other hand, it reminds me of that saying Make it idiot proof, they'll make a better idiot. That, and anyone blatantly advertising generally loses any merit in what I take from what they have to say.

The logs are a b rilliant idea. Also, the 3 strike principle makes sense to me. First  kick drops you from the server without ban, the 2nd gives you a moderate ban, but the 3rd [in a time period?] will heavily ban down on you. Theres always workarounds, but this system seems logical to me, especially since a lot of kicks I see are often people just having a laugh at each others expense, and just a few noobs who dont recognise the stature of the names they are with F12.

Raises some good points, but Im indecisive this morning.

[STM1993]

If the vote kick system were used properly by mature players, I'm sure its 100% fine. But good point - in publics lots of people tend to be noobs in the sense that, they are immature idiots.

1. Remove the ban on votekick -or-
 - make it require something like 3 consecutive votekicks to work. Lower ban time to ~30 minutes

Removing the ban on votekick... well if you mean that the votekick can only temporarily make you unable to enter the server for 30 minutes or so, then okay.

3 consecutive botekicks is okay, though honestly it is very troublesome for the mature players.

2. Log all votekicks on the server for moderation purposes:
-IP and name of the person who started the vote.
-Vote reason
-IP and name of the person being kicked
-Vote tallies (yes/no)
 If then, there is a legitimate kick an admin can review and take further action. If its not, the admin can review and do something about the griefers.

Excellent idea.

3. Implement a list that admins can add people to, to make them immune to votekicks
 - While we're add it, a similar feature for votemaps.

This system, however, can be abused. I won't be surprised that an admin of a server can be one of those immature people as well, and he might make another immature person immune to votekicks, so no matter how annoyingly immature he is and how he votekicks everyone he hates, he himself can't be kicked.

[Gotfryd]

I agree with KYnetiK and STM.

Btw, do you think that an account system would solve this problem? After short time idiots' and hackers' accounts would be added to some global blacklist. With a server option "automatically kick people from blacklist" this may solve the problem.
What if they create another account, you ask? We can restrict number of accounts created from one IP number, and/or one e-mail, for example.

[STM1993]

An account system is troublesome, makes Soldat too complicated, may drive away players.

There are people who have the same IP.

I won't be surprised if a hacker or cheater or immature person were to reform and become a pretty cool guy.

Last but not least, so much for Soldat being a "free game".



One thing about the votekick - can they show how many people actually voted you out?

[Gotfryd]

There are people who have the same IP.

Of course. I didn't say that only one account per IP should be avaliable; I think it should be around 5 accounts (and account does not equal profile; registered users would have many profiles in one account).

I won't be surprised if a hacker or cheater or immature person were to reform and become a pretty cool guy.

Of course. If I remember correctly, EnEsCe was a hacker long time ago (EnEsCe, don't kill me if I'm wrong, please ).
Accounts could be removed from blacklist after several months.

Last but not least, so much for Soldat being a "free game".
One thing about the votekick - can they show how many people actually voted you out?

I don't think accounts would make Soldat non-free. For example, free RTS Spring has account system and it is fine imo.

One thing about the votekick - can they show how many people actually voted you out?

There was a discussion about it, I'll post link when I find it...
Edit: It was here.

[KYnetiK]

Yes there was a thread about making the number of yay Vs nay votes public.