The Ultimate Question

[Eagles_Arrows]

Bleh, I only read the etymology part.

ON A SIDE NOTE:

I like how Merriam-Webster and Dictionary.com have an ad on "masterbating women" for finger.

[The Geologist]

And even a free download.  Woo!

[a-4-year-old]

Not really, just a bit bored and waiting for a good reason why the thumb is a finger.

You should try checking the definition.

[The Geologist]

That was so page 2.  We're on page 3 now.  Let's get to the real meat and potatoes of the subject, since the definitions I've seen so far make a point to say "especially other than the thumb" in the definition of finger. 

I mean, come on.  If the thumb was a finger like the rest, why would that little stipulation even be in there?  Unless there were some important, distinct differences between the thumb and the rest of the fingers that were worth noting.  Noting to the point, in fact, that one might not call if a finger like the rest.

[Eagles_Arrows]

Oh.

I reread Merriam-Webster's definition of thumb...

1: the short thick digit of the human hand that is analogous in position to the big toe and differs from the other fingers in having only two phalanges, allowing greater freedom of movement, and being

...which implies that the thumb is a finger.  Ugh.

[The Geologist]

So saying the thumb differs from the other fingers makes it a finger? 

This sort of reasoning is unfamiliar to me.  Not to mention the position of the big toe is nothing like the position of the thumb.  Makes me question the source. 

As I said, meat and potatoes people.

[Espadon]

While a human thumb is not a finger, it IS is homologous to a finger since the thumb did not come from some random sprouting -- it mutated from what would otherwise be considered a finger [unopposted digit]. So while a thumb is not a finger from a definite sense, the thumb IS a finger, biologically speaking.

[Eagles_Arrows]

So saying the thumb differs from the other fingers makes it a finger? 

This sort of reasoning is unfamiliar to me.  Not to mention the position of the big toe is nothing like the position of the thumb.

Not the position of the toe, but rather the big toe itself.

Both the big toe and the thumb have only two bones each, as opposed to all of the other digits, which have three each.  But we still consider the big toe a toe, so it's reasonable to consider the thumb a finger as well.

[The Geologist]

Best argument I've heard so far.  However, I wouldn't rule out the "random sprouting" idea.  After all, a mutation is quite random.  So much so we may get this opposable digit that behaves differently and is structured differently than the fingers. 

[Espadon]

Please refer to the evolution of horse hooves and similar ungulates in which multiple phalanges merged into more simplified versions. This is similar to how thumbs are 'simplified' with only two joints. Vertebrates originally had many digits [reference salamanders and primitive amphibians]. The fact that more than 5 existed before rules out 'sprouting' from a hypothetical original 4 digits [mammals also originally evolved with 5 unopposed fingers anyways].

[tehsnipah]

Thumb is a finger, because we use our fingers to hold a pencil. And we use thumb to use utensils. They're probably joking around with you Snake. @_@

[Lonestar]

As I said, meat and potatoes people.

[Mangled*]

If the thumb is a finger, explain the phrase "fingers and thumbs".

The discussion cannot progress until this has been answered.

[Outcast]

If the thumb is NOT a finger, then why does everyone know and aknowledge we have 5 fingers on each hand and leg. Why does it say everywhere that humans have 20 fingers altogether. Why doesn't it say anywhere that we have 4 thumbs and 16 fingers?
The most logical solution to this silly thread would be to divide fingers into 2 subcategories - 2 jointed and 3 jointed.

[Hair|Trigger]

looks like there's solid evidence backing up both sides here, and no sign of scientific confirmation ><

I like this thread, it's going to go on forever

[STM1993]

The thumb is a SPECIAL finger.

Need more details? The thumb is located differently (located on the side of the palm rather than above it), has fewer joints, but still works just like any other ordinary finger. Therefore it's still a finger.

It's like trying to say that the pulmonary artery is not an artery.

An artery is a vessel that transports blood away from the heart and to the rest of the body. Usually, it transports oxygenated blood, but in the pulmonary artery's case, it transports de-oxygenated blood to the lungs to get oxygen.

[Pie]

The thumb is a SPECIAL finger.

Need more details? The thumb is located differently (located on the side of the palm rather than above it), has fewer joints, but still works just like any other ordinary finger. Therefore it's still a finger.

It's like trying to say that the pulmonary artery is not an artery.

An artery is a vessel that transports blood away from the heart and to the rest of the body. Usually, it transports oxygenated blood, but in the pulmonary artery's case, it transports de-oxygenated blood to the lungs to get oxygen.

But once you start categorizing things as "special" then it can be pretty much anything.
For instance, take your canines.
They are a different kind of tooth, but they are still considered a tooth (I know that it's a weak point but...) So it doesn't seem reasonable to suggest that because the thumb is slightly different from the rest of the appendages on your hand that it isn't labeled as the same thing.
While it does have a different biological construction, it is significantly the same thing as a finger.

You say potato, I say potato. 

[Antipathy]

Arguing for the sake of arguing.

You people need to go outside. Meet people, you know.

[ds dude]

Alright.

The thumb.  We ask ourselves this constantly, but do we know the right answer?

The thumb is a finger.  Why? Because is has traits of the index finger.  Making it a finger.
I did wiki search on this as well.

The thumb consists of three bones:

    * distal phalanx (of the first digit)
    * proximal phalanx (of the first digit)
    * first metacarpal

If you disagree I'll go further into my statement.

[Mangled*]

We have 5 digits on a hand.

4 of those are fingers. 1 of them is a thumb.

What? Do you people not think that toes are fingers too? By your logic they should be.