Serious Discussion: Life

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

"you only have one life, live it to the fullest blabla" I don't see it that way. Some guy 400 years ago might have liven his life to the fullest, gotten a great education and achieved personal goals and so forth. Where did that get him in the end? Death is the finishing line that makes us all equally worthless.

Geo had a good response to this, but I'd like to approach it from a different angle.  Let's completely throw out future generations, and let's take everyone out of the picture except for you.  You've been given a tiny section of time between two dates to do absolutely whatever you want with.

Logically, life is pointless, because, as people have said, you're just a collection of molecules.  Heck, you might not even really have free will.  However, there are two very, very important things to consider.  Firstly, our universe and our lives are defined by relativity, not absolutes.  A rather irrelevant example would be that we measure speed relative to the earth, ignoring the movement of the earth, the galaxy, and so on.  It doesn't matter that we don't know the exact absolute speed that we're going; it only matters how fast we're going in our frame of reference.  Similarly, it doesn't matter if our actions aren't universe changing; it only matters that they have an impact on the time that we live in.

The second thing to consider is that humans aren't anywhere near to being rational creatures.  I've had this knowledge reinforced, sometimes painfully, many times in the past six months.  Logic may say that there's no point to life since nothing matters in the long run, but logic is irrelevant - it's personal feelings that drive us.  It's all well and good to SAY that there's no point in going out of your way to make the most of life, but the fact is, people are going to do it anyway.  And why not? After all, this is the only life you have.  You might as well make it a good one.

[Hair|Trigger]

Psycho is using some seriously retarded logic here

[frogboy]

psycho is using perfectly good logic. logic doesn't apply well to people because they're morons.

[Kazuki]

I'm going to base my input to this discussion on Maslow's hierarchy of needs; I'm gonna go ahead and say that people adjust the importance they see in life depending on where they fall in the hierarchy.

For example, someone who has fulfilled their basic needs and moves onto self-actualization will cherish life more than someone who struggles to meet their more basic needs. To put it simply, I would say that it depends on a ratio of struggle to satisfaction.

Also, Frogboy's statements don't count as arguments unless he elaborates on his decision to call people morons. Feelin' a little angsty there, Froggy?

[echo_trail]

I find it amazing how little you people see about the world around you, and frankly it disturbs me. You talk about "the big picture", as if the concept of suicide is just this one particular thing, and should provoke the same particular response. It's not, there's a million different reasons a person might have to take his or her own life, and none of us are in a position to judge them, unless we're personally involved.

logically yes, it is better to die than live in suffering, but anyone who actually goes through with it is pretty much a moron and a loser.

What the fuck is this? My god your eyes are closed, man. First of all, if a person's pushed so far over the edge that he or she would actually choose to give up his life to have peace, they probably already realise how little people think of them. Either that, or they don't give a crap anymore. Secondly, in our unethical judging of these characters, it's important that we look at what factors helped push'em over, not just at the person at hand.

Pain can be numbed through perserverance. Things that are lost can return or be replaced in some form or another. No matter how much pain a person thinks they are in, there will always be someone in a far worse situation than themselves and to give up whilst the other continues makes you weak.

It's true, pain can to some extend be a matter of priority and field of view, but that only applies if your pain is within the frames of a common reality. Odds are these individuals have had horrible experiences that you can't even begin to imagine, and so it's incredibly naive of you to pretend to comprehend. It's got nothing to do with how much we suffer compared to others, that's not a realistic way to look at it. Truthfully, life is a gift. but it's not necessarily a good one. Look at the world today, all the shit that's going on in it. You think that just because you're able to sit back and watch it on CNN, you get to act as you're a part of it? It doesn't work that way. There are people whose life revolve around the missery others bring upon them. Abuse, incest, violence, drugaddiction.. All concepts of fatal value, but they've become so common in our everyday, that they have lost their power in terms of fear factor. Peoples lifes are ruined everyday, but that doesn't make it less of a tragedy, and it doesn't make it any less difficult for said people to get through. I'm not saying suicide is justifiable, but it's understandable. at least to me.

I have more respect for people that kill themselves than ones that "wish" they could. Atleast they accomplished something, if you are in so much pain and you cant even kill yourself your way worse of a f**kup.

Hmmm... your the total opposite of me. I respect people for living there life out no matter how painful or bad it gets, just because life gets tough and your hurtin all over, doesn't mean you should pussy out. Chances are there have been people who were in much worse pain than you and they stayed until they actually died.

This is possibly the most fucked up statement I have ever seen. Suicide isn't a matter of courage, and it certainly isn't a matter of respect either.

What the hell is wrong with you people anyway?...

[koingnegsegg]

I can't decide where I'm at after reading all this.
1 part of me doesn't give a shit because we are all going to die any way, but another part wants to actually do something on this earth, but I don't know why. It's logic defying.
Human instinct?

[Psycho]

Psycho is using some seriously retarded logic here

Care to elaborate?

[jrgp]

1 part of me doesn't give a shit because we are all going to die any way, but another part wants to actually do something on this earth, but I don't know why. It's logic defying.

Stop worrying about how useful you'll be to the human race; shut the hell up and go to school and do your best there.

[PANZERCATWAGON]

i have a hard time having an opinion about a lot anymore on two words mentioned in this topic

happiness and purpose

whenever ive pondered about the possibility that everything is pointless, someone usually talks to me like im 5 and i dont know anything by saying 'happiness is the only thing that matters'. they never say why. or where that opinion came from. why the fuck is it you seem to think happiness is what we should be aiming for. why is that different from aiming to be sad, or even somewhere inbetween

which leads onto purpose. even if there was a purpose to being happy like so many people seem to assume, why the hell should i follow it. maybe there could be an even bigger purpose that means following the other one would be wrong. or maybe its not so fucking hard to believe that there isnt purpose at all



as for the actual, original, question,

if i were in unending untolerable pain with no plus sides, id end it, because im human

if someone wants to commit suicide, and i know they are definitely not mental, sure go ahead

and that last one i dont even care about no offense

[Smegma]

I might argue, if you have to question this you may be doing it wrong.

I might argue.

[Xxypher]

Because video gamers know everything about life.

[Kazuki]

happiness and purpose

whenever ive pondered about the possibility that everything is pointless, someone usually talks to me like im 5 and i dont know anything by saying 'happiness is the only thing that matters'. they never say why. or where that opinion came from. why the fuck is it you seem to think happiness is what we should be aiming for. why is that different from aiming to be sad, or even somewhere inbetween

which leads onto purpose. even if there was a purpose to being happy like so many people seem to assume, why the hell should i follow it. maybe there could be an even bigger purpose that means following the other one would be wrong. or maybe its not so fucking hard to believe that there isnt purpose at all

It's been said that happiness can only be truly measured by those who analyze your life after you have passed. Ethics also states that the purpose of each individual should not be happiness, but rather the greater good for humanity.

[excruciator]

If there are somethings at stake I say endure it.

[PANZERCATWAGON]

It's been said that happiness can only be truly measured by those who analyze your life after you have passed. Ethics also states that the purpose of each individual should not be happiness, but rather the greater good for humanity.

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeeeeeeeeeah, ethics

im sorry i forgot about that guy

hes all powerful and all knowing, i should have never defied the law of ethics




seriously though the only ethics we know are relevant to only us rather than everything

[Kazuki]

O_o Forgot about what guy? I wasn't talking about anyone in particular.

I'm not going to deny your final statement, but I do think that we're irrational because of it.

[Smegma]

He was referring to ethics as "the guy".

[a fool]

(Before you read, don't expect planification of my post, it's not sorted out much)

My thoughts are basically like Psycho's..
We are born then we die.
We are only living because of our primary instinct: Surviving which is reproduction. If we didn't have that, suicide rate would go so much up!

But living or not living is up to one's choice. It's consent should only rely on the executioner.
Being a human is a f**king load of burden, because of all that emotional bulls**t.
If you want to self destruct, it's up to you to say you really want to, and do it.
Suicide, a permanent solution for every day's problem and upcoming.

Of course, if you are religious (Catholic, protestant are general subject.. since I don't really know much about others), suicide is regarded as a sin (In the old days, dishonor to all your family and they would die too). So all that pressure gained from religion are basically enough to keep one from doing it.

The only problem that people don't suicide is because they have been living to live further, especially as a kid, indirectly taught to live and survive.

What most people don't really realize, is that everything seems to be coming down. Especially society, it exert a big pressure on teen, young adults and most adults. More and more, which will be leaving to a up hill of suicide rate. And life's condition are being more and more harsh on humanity, which in my opinion, should sooner or latter, drop to a unlivable state.
Society tried to resolute the problem it cause on a psychological well being of a person, by placing psychiatrist. Worked fine, but loosing it's touch.

All in all, what I want to say is, die before it's unlivable, but live if you want to live, it might be worth it.

[{LAW} Gamer_2k4]

psycho is using perfectly good logic. logic doesn't apply well to people because they're morons.

Also, Frogboy's statements don't count as arguments unless he elaborates on his decision to call people morons. Feelin' a little angsty there, Froggy?

1 part of me doesn't give a shit because we are all going to die any way, but another part wants to actually do something on this earth, but I don't know why. It's logic defying.
Human instinct?

Ahem...believe I already answered these pre-emptively.

The second thing to consider is that humans aren't anywhere near to being rational creatures.  I've had this knowledge reinforced, sometimes painfully, many times in the past six months.  Logic may say that there's no point to life since nothing matters in the long run, but logic is irrelevant - it's personal feelings that drive us.  It's all well and good to SAY that there's no point in going out of your way to make the most of life, but the fact is, people are going to do it anyway.  And why not? After all, this is the only life you have.  You might as well make it a good one.

[PANZERCATWAGON]

O_o Forgot about what guy? I wasn't talking about anyone in particular.

I'm not going to deny your final statement, but I do think that we're irrational because of it.

He was referring to ethics as "the guy".

yeah dont worry about it kazuki i was just being a dick

i didnt really expect a proper answer anyway its all opinion based

but whatever im gonna go get drunk

[Lt. Sprizz]

 One interesting philosopher I advise all of you to look into is Rene Descartes. His life was lived trying to prove scientifically that there is a higher being. Also, he came up with two unfaltered truthes. The first, "I think." has to be true, because simply by thinking that statement, you prove that it is correct. His second un faltered truth, "I exist." is also true. Then Descartes combined them to the famous phrase we know and love today,

"I think, Therefore I am (exist)."

 But how he proved that there is a higher being is flawless. First, he realized that for anything to exist, it has to be perfect. Don't try and argue; everything down to the content of marrow in our bones to the Earth's atmosphere is perfect. And Descartes realized that ONLY a higher being, one above all of us, could create perfection.

 So, scientifically, there has to be some kind of higher being. I call that higher being God personally, but you can call him whatever you've been taught. Realizing that there is a higher being, to me, says that we all have an obligation to please this higher being. And I believe this higher being has created an afterlife, be it happy or sad.

 I believe suicide is an unforgiveable sin, like most Catholics, (though I'm not) because no matter the torment in your life, this higher being can guide you through it.

 No pain can surmount to anything anyone else hasn't gone through and lived thorugh it and turned out better on the other side.

 Suicide is not the answer to any of life's problems, because you'll end up on the other side and be confronted with something even worse, and this time you can't commit suicide to get yourself out of it.

 
 A little long, I know, but I hope some people take the time to read it. Btw, this is my opinion, not a statment of fact, although I realized that I kind of wrote it to sound like one.