Poll

Do you support it?

yes
18 (46.2%)
no
19 (48.7%)
neutral
2 (5.1%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Author Topic: drop-and-draw-another-weapon  (Read 8814 times)

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Offline Gotfryd

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drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« on: January 18, 2009, 04:21:17 am »
Switching weapons in the middle of fight is useful when you run out of ammo, but it takes considerable amount of precious time.
I suggest to add ability to throw current weapon and draw second weapon from your back in one move (with one button) [EDIT] Or with a combination of buttons, for example F and Q pressed simultaneously[/EDIT]. It should be faster then simply switching weapons, but the disadvantage would be that you loose one weapon.

Real-life example: a guy has a green backpack on his back and a red one in his hands. Putting red one on his back and green one in his hands takes much more time then dropping red one and taking green one from his back into his hands. Try it yourself.

Please vote and post comments.

PS I don't want to delete or change existing "change weapons" control. I only want to add another one.

PPS STM1993 changed his mind, so there should be one more "yes" and one less "no" in the poll.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 03:04:17 am by Gotfryd »

Offline STM1993

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Re: alternative to changing weapons
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2009, 04:52:21 am »
Total drawing speed is about 1 second, the first half is used to put back/pulling the arm behind to get the gun, the next half is to wait for the Soldaten to whip out the gun and aim it properly (otherwise, your first shot goes completely off, and don't forget to count in the fireinterval of the gun).

It doesn't make sense in this suggestion because the time for the Soldaten to put back a weapon and the time to draw out the other weapon is the same.

I wouldn't want to throw away my main weapon just to switch to my secondary, especially if I'm using a Saw or LAW, and for Knife if I'm a bad knifer. I would rather throw away my secondary to switch to my main.

What if the current weapon I was holding is a Knife? Then it would allow me throw in a certain direction swiftly (or be able to charge) and then switch to my main really quickly.

Don't forget there are grenades (which takes a while to throw, but definitely faster than just switching)



F11, I don't find the move to be very helpful.

EDIT:
I've changed my mind, F12. See next few posts.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 05:46:58 am by STM1993 »

Offline Gotfryd

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Re: alternative to changing weapons
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2009, 05:16:36 am »
It doesn't make sense in this suggestion because the time for the Soldaten to put back a weapon and the time to draw out the other weapon is the same.

You are right that gostek makes one move there. I've only tried to give an explanation why this new move would be faster then standard weapon chaging and why it would be useful, not describe how is it animated in Soldat.

Try it with two backpacks: one on your back, second in your hands. Switching them takes much more time then discarding the one in your hands and taking second from your back.

I wouldn't want to throw away my main weapon just to switch to my secondary, especially if it is not the USSOCOM - The Knife, miss = dead, Saw = Melee, LAW = I need to land.

I'm not saying this new move would be good in every situation.
I thought rather about situations like:
- you switched to LAW to blow somebody's up and you want to return to your primary (and you know you won't need LAW anymore because you won't be able to reload it)
- you discarded your secondary and picked some long-reloading weapon instead, now you're out of ammo and want to return to your primary,
- you missed with M79 and want to use your socom.

What if the current weapon I was holding is a Knife? Then it would make me throw in a certain direction and switch to my main really quickly.
This can be easily solved: this new move wouldn't throw knife (like we de using throw weapon), only drop it (at minimal velocity).

Don't forget there are grenades (which takes a while to throw, but definitely faster than just switching)

Throwing grenades is totally different and not connected to my idea.

Offline STM1993

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Re: alternative to changing weapons
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2009, 05:27:22 am »
Don't forget there are grenades (which takes a while to throw, but definitely faster than just switching)

Throwing grenades is totally different and not connected to my idea.

It actually is. In some situations like in a fire fight where this move would normally be used, instead of switching, I'd just start to throw nades at the enemy. Currently, without this move, we'd just throw nades.

Alright, I'm convinced, seems good. Every tick counts in a fire fight. My only worry is that it might make the Knife more powerful than it needs to be.



Now... how do I change my vote from F11 to F12...?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 05:52:46 am by STM1993 »

Offline Gotfryd

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Re: alternative to changing weapons
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2009, 05:45:32 am »
Now... how do I change my vote from F11 to F12...?

I'm afraid it's not possible :( I can only reset vote count, but there are two guys more who voted, and I don't know who they were.
I'll just remember that. And make a note in first post.

Offline Platehead

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 07:15:17 pm »
So you're saying that there's a different button (not F or Q) that is an instant drop and draw?  Seems ok... but just want to clarify that first
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Offline excruciator

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2009, 07:25:40 pm »
Too complicated.
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2009, 08:17:43 pm »
F11
This might be useful, but not useful enough to have an extra button for it and doing extra work programming it. It will confuse newbies too. Switching between weapons with current speed is bearable and it's not that slow. (it's less than a second btw. Half a second, if not less)
And dropping law that you already used and switching to a different gun isn't a problem either - an average player should be able to quickly press drop+switch, which wont be any longer than just switching.


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Offline Gotfryd

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2009, 04:13:07 am »
Switching between weapons with current speed is bearable and it's not that slow. (it's less than a second btw. Half a second, if not less)

It's 0.75 second, and in tough situations it's somewhat long - especially in realistic (where you can be killed much faster than in normal mode).

So you're saying that there's a different button (not F or Q) that is an instant drop and draw?  Seems ok... but just want to clarify that first

Yeah, I suggest to add a new button.

I think this would add some diversity to the game.

Offline Hair|Trigger

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2009, 04:13:25 am »
imo, tap F twice should be the control.  but it's really not needed and only COMPLICATES the game therefore, F11

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Offline Gotfryd

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2009, 04:16:33 am »
You gave me some new idea: maybe this move should be executed when player presses "drop weapon" and "change weapon" simultaneously? That way it wouldn't confuse anyone and would be intuitive, I think.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 04:22:11 am by Gotfryd »

Offline Hair|Trigger

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2009, 04:32:48 am »
lol?  But how does that make you change weapon faster? that way you're using one hand

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Offline Platehead

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2009, 06:16:47 am »
Ugh if it's getting so complicated, F11.  Pressing 2 buttons at the same time... just doesn't fit into soldat's fast pace.  This is more of a realism issue I'd say... I know that as STM1993 said every tick counts, but I don't think it'd be worth introducing another button into this.  In my opinion, at most an option for realistic mode.
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Offline Gotfryd

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2009, 09:14:23 am »
lol?  But how does that make you change weapon faster? that way you're using one hand

Um... I don't understand. Do you mean I (Soldat player) use one hand on a keyboard or do you refer to gostek's hands?

Pressing 2 buttons at the same time... just doesn't fit into soldat's fast pace.

You do it all the time, for example when bunnyhopping or kickjumping or backflipping or running and shooting at the same time.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 09:43:56 am by Gotfryd »

Offline Ragnaros

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2009, 11:37:50 am »
hmm very good suggestion at all.
-1 weapon is the very nice way to balance momental weapons change.
F12 sure!!

Offline tendulker

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2009, 09:39:02 pm »
Wouldn't this be pretty hard to implement. Lots of hard-coded stuff, right?

Offline tehsnipah

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2009, 11:12:56 pm »
I know you want to make soldat better; but damn it, you're just gonna make players lazy instead! Players should be smart enough to time their weapon switchings. And it only takes two or three keys to complete it.

No need to be convenient in soldat, unless if there's a glitch or bug.
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Offline chutem

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2009, 12:15:50 am »
Nice to see 'original' ideas, but this is gonna be useless IMO.

Not gonna help game play at all, no one is gonna notice you pressed the drop-n-draw button instead of throw weapon then switch.
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Offline Hair|Trigger

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2009, 06:27:59 pm »
lol?  But how does that make you change weapon faster? that way you're using one hand

Um... I don't understand. Do you mean I (Soldat player) use one hand on a keyboard or do you refer to gostek's hands?

no, I mean your gostek has to drop and draw at the same time, so then he would be using one hand for each task.  And because dropping a weapon is instantaneous, unlike drawing, there's no point in this since he would be wasting time 'dropping' it, so it basically leads back to your original idea. 

The bottom line; you can't really consider the actions as two tasks because dropping is not a task, it's simply letting go of the hand grip.

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Offline Gotfryd

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Re: drop-and-draw-another-weapon
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2009, 03:45:00 pm »
no, I mean your gostek has to drop and draw at the same time, so then he would be using one hand for each task. And because dropping a weapon is instantaneous, unlike drawing, there's no point in this since he would be wasting time 'dropping' it. 

Who said he must use one hand for each task? He would drop weapon with both hands and then use both hands to take another one from back.

dropping is not a task, it's simply letting go of the hand grip.

I agree, but throwing weapon in Soldat isn't working like this. It takes some time. If you press "change weapon" immediately after pressing "throw weapon", gostek won't throw any weapon at all.