Poll

Team switch on map change on _inf?

f11 - bad idea
1 (5.3%)
f11 - easily scriptable
6 (31.6%)
f12 - should be option anyway
12 (63.2%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Author Topic: Inf maps switching  (Read 8354 times)

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Offline tendulker

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Inf maps switching
« on: January 20, 2009, 09:29:16 pm »
Hello everyone,

Don't know if this has been suggested before as I couldn't find it in the search box :P. I know people here are generally against others trying to implement some aspect of a popular video game into Soldat, but I think this is actually relevant...or maybe not.

Either way, here is my simple suggestion. Currently, whenever you are in a _inf game you are always either defending or attacking, even after map changes, and both call for radically different styles of play. You usually can't get a chance to experience the other style unless somebody leaves and the number of people on each team is left in your favor, or if somebody agrees to switch teams with you. Usually though, if one side is winning consistently (sometimes the design of maps can also play a part in this), many people would not agree to switch. My suggestion is (probably optional) to make everybody in each team switch teams after each map. Effectively, everybody in the blue team becomes red and vice versa.

Not sure if anyone noticed but this is how Halo 3's one flag CTF is played. As far I know, this probs. wouldn't be too difficult to implement. Anyone know if something like this can be scripted?

I dunno, what do you guys think? Poll?

Offline chutem

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2009, 12:19:34 am »
Yeah it can be scripted in 5 minutes.

Would be good as an option though, F12.
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Offline scarface09

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2009, 06:42:38 am »
Yeah this can be done..but i'm not sure if people will want it. I'm Neutral for this idea. Also add a poll and see how it goes mate.
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Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2009, 09:49:45 am »
As far as public servers go, you could just list each map twice and install a script to automatically switch the teams.

Competition wise, players can switch teams themselves.

It's possible to do it with currently available features, imo.
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Offline homerofgods

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2009, 11:59:27 am »
so red is allways the defending team or the other way around?
doesn't it depend on the map`?

Offline Gotfryd

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2009, 02:30:03 pm »
Good idea. An option like this will be useful.

Yeah it can be scripted in 5 minutes.

Still I say F12 - it's more convenient for ordinary players to have this in Soldat options than to script it.

I dunno, what do you guys think? Poll?

Of course add a poll!
(I love polls ;D)

so red is allways the defending team or the other way around?
doesn't it depend on the map`?

In infiltration Red Team is always attacking, Blue Team is always defending. It does not depend on map, it's hardcoded in game.

Offline Duck Boi

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2009, 04:11:17 pm »
This is already in ARRSE, it switches the teams on map change.

Offline LtKillroy

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2009, 07:09:07 pm »
I coulda sworn a server shuffled teams. I dunno, good for option but doable already. F12 but unnecessary.
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Offline tendulker

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2009, 06:52:21 pm »
I don't know anything about scripts, but in a game w/ auto-balance and even number teams, wouldn't the server just push the 'offender' back into the other team as soon as they switched (forced by script)?

Perhaps, the servers mentioned had auto-balance disabled?

Another way could possibly include
1. forcing one person into spec on say, the alpha team,
2. then force one bravo team member to switch,
3. and lastly, put the spec guy into bravo,
4. and rinse and repeat, alternating the team from which the to-be spectator comes from (actually this isn't needed, looks cooler, though).

And, if this could work, since it would most likely take place in between maps with the stat? screen up, there would be no freaky screen switching, just some fancy name juggling.

'Would be cool if someone with a scripting background responded to this. Is this possible? Anybody willing to take upon this "5 min" project?

Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2009, 06:58:16 pm »
Quote
Another way could possibly include
1. forcing one person into spec on say, the alpha team,
2. then force one bravo team member to switch,
3. and lastly, put the spec guy into bravo,
4. and rinse and repeat, alternating the team from which the to-be spectator comes from (actually this isn't needed, looks cooler, though).
Unnecessary. Just switch them straight over to the other team. If you have a balance script, then you could integrate the team switching into it.
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Offline tendulker

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2009, 07:07:49 pm »
Unnecessary. Just switch them straight over to the other team. If you have a balance script, then you could integrate the team switching into it.

Balancing is a script? I thought it was coded into soldat.

Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2009, 07:11:57 pm »
Well, there's an option to prevent the teams being stacked, but it only works to a point. If someone leaves with this on, and suddenly the difference between teams is more than one (which would call for an unbalance in the teams), it does nothing to correct it. Therefore, a balance script is much more useful in that it will also balance in this situation, as well as preventing teamstacking and whatnot.
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Offline chutem

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2009, 08:14:13 pm »
I don't know anything about scripts, but in a game w/ auto-balance and even number teams, wouldn't the server just push the 'offender' back into the other team as soon as they switched (forced by script)?

Perhaps, the servers mentioned had auto-balance disabled?

Another way could possibly include
1. forcing one person into spec on say, the alpha team,
2. then force one bravo team member to switch,
3. and lastly, put the spec guy into bravo,
4. and rinse and repeat, alternating the team from which the to-be spectator comes from (actually this isn't needed, looks cooler, though).

And, if this could work, since it would most likely take place in between maps with the stat? screen up, there would be no freaky screen switching, just some fancy name juggling.

'Would be cool if someone with a scripting background responded to this. Is this possible? Anybody willing to take upon this "5 min" project?
That is really overcomplicated.
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Offline tehsnipah

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2009, 11:09:41 pm »
It would be nice if they had TF2 like gameplay on INF. After reds played, then blues should get to be red after.
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Offline scarface09

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2009, 09:45:29 am »
why is it F11 - Easily Scriptable...shouldn't that be a neutral choice?
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2009, 10:05:21 am »
Having this as an actual feature instead of script would be nice since not everyone knows how to script. It would be nice to see this added at some point, but right now I'm fine with the fact that it's scriptable.
I like to stay on same team for long time, so I dont feel like I really want this so bad. 

Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2009, 10:22:00 am »
Having this as an actual feature instead of script would be nice since not everyone knows how to script.
But the people who know how to script are server admins, so that point isn't valid. Plus, once one person makes it, everyone can use it (assuming they share it).
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Offline Gotfryd

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2009, 11:22:14 am »
Having this as an actual feature instead of script would be nice since not everyone knows how to script.
But the people who know how to script are server admins, so that point isn't valid.

But not all server admins know how to script. For example when I invite friends to a LAN party, I set up my own server. Unfortunately I don't know how to script. Of course, I know that installing scripts made by others can't be hard to do, but I don't have time to find scripts I want and learn how to do install them. That's why I think it's better to have things like this coded in Soldat instead of having to script it.

Plus, once one person makes it, everyone can use it (assuming they share it).

And when it's hardcoded into Soldat also everyone can use it.

Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2009, 06:02:41 pm »
Having this as an actual feature instead of script would be nice since not everyone knows how to script.
But the people who know how to script are server admins, so that point isn't valid.

But not all server admins know how to script. For example when I invite friends to a LAN party, I set up my own server. Unfortunately I don't know how to script. Of course, I know that installing scripts made by others can't be hard to do, but I don't have time to find scripts I want and learn how to do install them. That's why I think it's better to have things like this coded in Soldat instead of having to script it.

Plus, once one person makes it, everyone can use it (assuming they share it).

And when it's hardcoded into Soldat also everyone can use it.
Step 1. Search for the script.
Step 2. Download the script.
Step 3. Install the script.

Takes all of five minutes, less if you're pro.
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Offline STM1993

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2009, 09:44:23 pm »
I'd F12 even though I know full well that this can be easily scripted and scripts can be easily installed.

Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2009, 02:10:42 am »
Step 1. Search for the script.
Step 2. Download the script.
Step 3. Install the script.
Takes all of five minutes, less if you're pro.

It seems that you have experience with it, but don't assume that everyone does. :/
I don't know much about hosting and have absolutely no idea about scripts, how they are installed and where to find the instructions on how to install them. And I don't really feel like spending half an hour (yes, about this much if not more because again, im not experienced with that) on figuring this out and troubleshooting any problems that might come up (and they always do).

Offline Gotfryd

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2009, 03:45:11 am »
and where to find the instructions on how to install them.

Judging by topics' names, at least some instructions can be found in sticikies in scripting discussions and help.

Still, some players don't even know about the existence of scripts (I didn't know until I came to the forums and began to play online more). In that case they don't know that they can find things like that.

My point is, if someone already did a script, and it proved bug-free and useful, wouldn't it be very easy for developers to add it to Soldat?
Of course not all scripts that were ever made, only best implementations of popular issues like  airstrike in trenchwars, medic etc.

Offline scarface09

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2009, 09:03:52 am »
F12, easily scripted and is a clever and useful idea.
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2009, 03:18:11 pm »
Instead of hard-coding this into soldat, those scripts can simply be left in script format, but have a more user-friendly way to add them (an easy to find "scripts" tab with list of avaiable scripts or something like that?) and have them supplied with soldat by default.

This way many popular server features don't have to wait to be hard-coded by developers and server scripters can actually take part in soldat development too.

Offline Gotfryd

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2009, 03:47:01 pm »
This sounds like a good solution.

Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2009, 08:18:16 pm »
The soldat server does not come with a GUI, so I don't know how your suggestion would work.

If you meant implementing it into Soldat Forums or making a new site, it's already been done.
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Offline Gotfryd

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2009, 02:51:00 am »
If you meant implementing it into Soldat Forums or making a new site, it's already been done.

Soldat Central? I know.

The soldat server does not come with a GUI, so I don't know how your suggestion would work.

Here comes my ignorance (and maybe L[0ne]R's too): I thought/hoped that it's possible to create server with scripts also using Soldat.exe (in start game tab), not only using Soldat Server.
If it's impossible, I suggest to make it possible if it can be done...

Offline SpiltCoffee

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2009, 06:26:38 pm »
It's possible to be done, no doubt about that. However, the amount of work required to implement the scriptcore into the client just doesn't make the effort worth it, I reckon, and I'm sure EnEsCe, who would be the one to decide on doing it or not, would agree.
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Offline tendulker

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2009, 05:48:07 am »
If this is indeed scriptable, and it has been established that it is, I will be looking forward to it being integrated into some good inf servers, as IMO, it helps w/ gameplay a lot.

Offline echo_trail

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2009, 06:38:38 am »
I can see the idea behind this, but I just don't think it's enough of an issue to really to really demand a remedy. Then again, i don't usually play infiltration, so i might just not realise said demand.

In any case, this was added to the official suggestions sticky.
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Offline L[0ne]R

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Re: Inf maps switching
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2009, 10:52:26 am »
I can see the idea behind this, but I just don't think it's enough of an issue to really to really demand a remedy. Then again, i don't usually play infiltration, so i might just not realise said demand.

Well I personally don't find this too critical, since I like staying on the same team for several rounds (though I do switch eventually). However this would bring more variety to gameplay, especially if given a bit of customization (# of rounds before switching).
This suggestion isn't as important as some other suggestions, but should still be added at some point.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 12:27:19 pm by L[0ne]R »