Serious Discussion: The Christian God

[Xxypher]

I get tired of these internet God threads.
"LEIK, YUR GOD IS SUCK."
And then someone gets pissed.
And then a flame war starts out.
And then it gets locked.

[Mittsu]

But then, how can you be so sure what God expects of you?

I'm going to answer this in the context of the Christian God, since that's the one I believe in and the one I'm most familiar with.  A Christian's source of God's expectations is the Bible; it's the core of our whole religion.  Why the Bible? Because we believe that it's not just some book written by wise men, but rather God's holy inspired word (2 Timothy 3:16-17).  In other words, the authors were just writing tools for God, and the Bible is by him, not them.  As God doesn't seem to contact us as directly as he used to, the Bible is our best bet for understanding what God wants for us.  All of the following will be spoken as fact, but as you can see from my citations, it's all from the Bible, so take that however you will.

You trust in the bible, yeah? How can you know it isn't a ripoff. If was written over a timeline that ended a long time ago, long enough for people to have grown an unquestioning trust towards it. And it was written by man, yes? Man is faulty, as we well see today. If one truely believes in God, how can you even consider taking the bible into account of his words?

Also, you say that anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus and God will go to hell. But there are people around the world who have never even heard of them. What, they go to hell for not believing in something they were never introduced to? African or australian tribes, monks in Siberia, people living in remote parts of China or India.. even eskimos.
And it seems to me that it is so easy for you guys to point your fingers and say "You're wrong, we're right. Now obey or be damned for all eternity", when you're growing up with it, when it's an acceptable part of your everyday. But say you live in India where the vast majority of the population is Hindu, suddently it's not so much accepted. Or if you're a protestant living in a catholic country. The whole concept of God and the bible.. really it reminds me more of a dictatorship. However, I will say this about God and his bible. I understand some of it's basic messages, and I like them. I like the good it brings out in people.

I've always been interrested in faith and religion, though it should be noted that I see the two of them much apart. I admire a person who has faith in any god or any cause. I admire how a person can give him or herself wholeheartedly to what they believe to be something greater. That, even if I don't agree with the persons point of view, is a remarkable feature in a human. However, I see "religion" as a cage for said person, a set of predetermined rules applied to what would otherwise be the beings free natural sense of roaming through the world in the way that he or she sees fit.

I'm not a believer, as you may have figured out by now. It's not that I don't want to be, or that I'm afraid to be. I just don't agree with it, and there are too many holes in all the major religions. It all goes against my nature. However, I am not a bad man. Even in the eyes of God, aside the fact I don't believe in him/her/it/them/whatever, I'm a good person, if I can say so myself. I try to always do the right thing, and I try to help those around me. I'm an honest person, and I respect others in their beliefs as well as anything. But I will still go to hell, won't I? 'cause that's how your religion survives, through intimidation. You're using fear to force your specific denomination in on people, to make it a part of peoples everyday on such a grand scale that they live out that religion with unflinching loyalty. I'm sorry to say, but that's cowardly and it's fraud.

At least that's how I see it.

this is exactly how i feel about it


just what makes you believe that whats written in holy bible is true?

[Xxypher]

There is proof that the catholic church rewrote sections in the 18th centruy.

[Rai-Dei]

Mangled hasn't replied yet? Damn hes slacking.

[Mangled*]

{LAW} Gamer_2k4, would you kindly explain how exactly Christianity is correct whilst the thousands of other religions that have existed since the dawn of man are incorrect? - other than the fact that you were born into it, because I'm pretty sure if you had been born in Iran you would be saying exactly the same things about the Qur'an.

In the vast majority people Religion is an accident of birth, and these people spend the entirety of their childhood in ignorance of other faiths and are slowly saturated by the religious community around them as they grow up. Religion relies almost entirely on the ignorance and fragility of a childs mind in order for it to be passed on down the generations, children are naturally programed to believe what their parents and elders tell them and so if they spend the first 10 years of their life being told that an undetectable, invisible man created everything and everyone despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, they're going to believe that for the rest of their life. Children are weak, naïve, inexperienced and gullible and religion is absolutely shameful for preying on them in the way that it does.

What's wrong with this? Well, it doesn't give them the benefit of choice. They aren't allowed to chose what they believe, which I think everybody should be allowed to do. You may argue that there is choice and they can always convert to another religion or non-religion, and whilst this is possible there is often overwhelming pressure from family, people are afraid of how their family and the community around them will react to this, and rightfully so. In places in the middle east if you announced to everybody that you were converting to Christianity you would get completely disowned by everybody around you and you would literally have to find somewhere else to make a life for yourself. Same applies to many places in America in fact.

{LAW} Gamer_2k4 can you really deny that you weren't given any choice? Did the people around you wait until you had the mental maturity of a young adult before you made your mind up about what you believe? Were you taught as much about any other faith than the one chosen for you? No.

I know that no matter how much sense that could be beaten into you by my brutal truth telling (and it is brutal), you would never change your opinions because you had your mind made up about the universe by about age 7.

[Xxypher]

Hey look, here comes the anger in the topic.
Step one is almost complete.
Next will be a flame war.

[echo_trail]

Xxypher, knock it off. Either contribute to the threat, or stay the crap out of it.

Also, well said mangled. I actually agree wholeheartedly with you.

[Psycho]

Well it's the simple truth. You will get told about rewards and consequences of your actions in life while you are groing up, and that will stay with you.

[Mangled*]

Well it's the simple truth. You will get told about rewards and consequences of your actions in life while you are groing up, and that will stay with you.

Oh I like that, completely evading the whole point. Yeah, children should learn the morals of life when they're young. That's fine, and why not tell them the truth like there may or may not be God and which God it could be if there is is completely unknown and that 99% of the questionable content of scripture completely violates the well established laws of physics and the universe.

What they shouldn't be taught is that there's an old book full of sex scenes, rape, murder, punishment Jesus walking around being nice to everyone which was definitely written by God himself (through humans who knew exactly what God was thinking and wanted to tell the world) who created the universe in the middle of the agricultural revolution.

[Psycho]

I think you misunderstood me.

[a fool]

I personally don't beleive much in anything, religion wise.
But I'm not saying that you should be like me and be atheist (I can be considered to be some sort of satanic too..), if you want to beleive in a god, i say go for it. The good side of this is it will bring you hope or something, blind hope but that's just my opinion.
I just dislike how some religion imposes you to convert someone.

Christianity (Protestant) comes from rebellion of Catholicism.
Some guy (I forgot) decided to create Christianity based off Catholicism, but minus all the fraud. And in my opinion, Catholicism uses fear to control people. I mean, all your life you kept being told "YOU WILL GO TO HELL..." for certain reasons, and from what you know, hell is a very bad place, you don't wanna go there, so, out of fear, you try your best to not do what they say is bad.

I like something I saw on the internet about religion, showing two scenario.
One being reality:
guy1: I have a baseball!
guy2: prove it!
guy1: *shows the baseball* see?
guy2: Oh, cool!

And the other being religion (Catholicism mainly):
guy1: I have a baseball!
guy2: prove it!
guy1: YOU CAN'T SAY I DON'T HAVE ONE!!!!
guy2: Eek!

You, religious or not, should not impose your belief on someone else. Have sympathy instead.
--
Note this was made with a non-religious point of view.

[Smegma]

If I can't impose my belief on people then what is the point of having one?

[a fool]

If I can't impose my belief on people then what is the point of having one?

It can differ from person. Like someone might take a walk because they wanna get outside, or someone else might take a walk because they want to loose weight.
I just mean to say to let a freedom of diversity, to think what you want and not have a mind controlled by others.

And of course, I do realize of how hypocrite my earlier statement was.

[echo_trail]

If I can't impose my belief on people then what is the point of having one?

Is this a serious question? If so, I'm pretty sure you mgiht be going to hell with the rest of us, mate.

[Smegma]

The exposition of an idea might as well be imposing.

[Mangled*]

If I can't impose my belief on people then what is the point of having one?

He has a point. If each person held their own belief and never imposed it on anybody else, whilst it would be almost utopian it would not make sense as if you are genuinely believing in it then you are confident that it is correct and not imposing it on other people would be in your own perspective keeping them in ignorance and your belief would die with you.

To put it another way, if what ever people believed would happen after they die came true, no matter what it was so long as it only applied to the person dying, if nobody imposed their belief on someone else then each person would end up in their own empty afterlife, which somewhat defeats the purpose of itself.

This applies to both religion and philosophy. Of course, it's wrong to force your feelings down peoples throats, especially if it's out of how insecure you are. But debate is healthy and helps to bring awareness of other points of view to everybody who cares to listen.

[a fool]

hmm, it depends how you see "imposing" I guess, but I assume I am wrong here. Good point

[Slashnoob]

uhh, are you talking about forcing religion into eachother, or about beliefs in general?

this isn't supposed to be any post concerning religion or not - but what if some people want to have their beliefs in order to achieve something for themselves (be it {false or not} hope, courage, something to hold on to etc)?

i, like you, think that forcing religion or religious habbits into other people is morally wrong or wrong in general. but what about people that just want to have their beliefs to improve their own way of life? true, many extremists from islam/judaism/christianity may be a bad example, but what about buddhist monks that aren't bothering anybody?

would it be so bad if people treated religion as some way of life they should follow without imposing it on others? i'm thinking anything that doesn't involve "SLAY YOUR ENEMIES BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO", just beliefs like going to church and being modest etc.

basically what i'm trying to imply is that not all beliefs are meant to be imposed on others. for example, if a part of my belief is not to wear anything black for it will bring me great sex, there is no sense for me to impose it on others. suggest it, yeah - impose it, no.

if you're not talking about beliefs in general, but about forced religion and stuff of that sorts then disregard this post.

[LtKillroy]

To answer the first question of the first line, God wants you to love your neighbor as yourself and hold no other Gods before God. And accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour (Christian God). That's it.

[~Niko~]

Why god can't handle money? Didn't he make the earth? Whoa he's so powerful that he needs money, but on what would he spend it?


http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=Ilfu-Byyf8Q&feature=related