Am I being way too bitchy about Ak 74?

[tehsnipah]

I think the Ak should have a bit more fire rate. Faster than Minimi, but slower than AUG. And also, does AUG has a speedier bullets than Ak?

[STM1993]

I think the Ak should have a bit more fire rate. Faster than Minimi, but slower than AUG

That'd be fireinterval 8. I tried that fireinterval on the AK, Aug and Minimi before. It caused its crouch accuracy to be horrendous - it'd start shooting at a VERY downward angle from where you are pointing towards.

does AUG has a speedier bullets than Ak?

AK has 240 bullet speed (which is reasonably straight yet it has a slight curve that can be used to one's advantage), Aug has 260 (which is pretty straight). Aug has higher bullet speed.



AK's fine. It has great accuracy (rivals that of the Aug) since it is unaffected by self-bink (you tap the AK) and has only movementacc 2 like the Aug. It has good DPS, taking only 7 shots to kill someone, though its DOT is the worst of all autos due to slow firing rate. However, it makes up with a large 40 ammo clip, so it can fire for pretty long and you can take out quite a number of enemies in one clip. In addition, its reload isn't that bad either. It's very fast for a weapon that can last so long before the need to reload, yet slow if found in a fire fight. The AK's been unique because it's a good example of a hybrid between the semis and the autos - The firing rate of the autos and the damage of the semis in harmony. That makes it very versatile.

If you want to compare it with the Minimi, the Minimi's actually very different. The Minimi has superior DOT compared to all the other autos (providing all shots hit). Yes, it shares with the AK high DPS (though not as high as the AK, 8 shots to kill) and the very high ammo (50). However, the Minimi's difference lies in the fact that:
1) It is much less accurate when moving - movementacc 4. (though there's the bink overriding movementacc flaw that I recently discovered which makes it more accurate than it is meant to be)
2) Minimi's reload is about 5/3 of that of the AK - 250. That's extremely long.
3) Minimi's bullet speed is 270, which is higher than the Aug. That means it fires more straight than the AK, which has that slight curve.

[Sappy]

That would probably make the AK a tad overpowered.

[Platehead]

Wait.. let's get this straight in English..
Minimi's got the best DOT because it's got awesome Damage Per Shot (second to AK by a little) but it's got good fire rate.. correct?
And it's drawback is that it's got bad reload and accuracy.. correct?

So if we make the AK shoot faster than the minimi, it means it'll have the best DOT by far while maintaining a good standard of accuracy (which makes AK appealing)

Am I missing something? :S

[Poop]

I took a look at minime and AK's damage per tick yesterday and the difference between the 2 is pretty marginal at the start. With AK's shorter reload there is actually only a small time frame where minime is significantly better than AK (That is when AK runs out of ammo and minime is still shooting). Obviously minime ends up holding the slight advantage in range (270 vs 250 speed) and time to kill (.9 vs 1 second), but over time AK is significantly better in overall damage done. I think these weapons are balanced relative to one another somewhat well (AK is still a bit too strong due to its short reload but that is about it).

Legend: X Axis is ticks in increments of 5. So 101 on the X Axis is 505 ticks (8.3 Seconds). The graph shows average damage per tick. To be exact, over time, AK will end up with a damage per tick of ~1.22, while minime is at ~1.1.

[STM1993]

Plus, the Minimi is actually more inaccurate compared to the AK (240 speed, not 250), practically making the difference bigger.

Seems like the Minimi's DOT isn't that good after all eh?

[Platehead]

Oh.  I thought all along minimi was theoretically the best damager overall.
Guess I was wrong xD
So now we're saying, in regard to the original post, AK shouldn't really be buffed aye

[Poop]

Oh.  I thought all along minimi was theoretically the best damager overall.
Guess I was wrong xD
So now we're saying, in regard to the original post, AK shouldn't really be buffed aye

It should be weakened, AK will be the strongest/most used weapon in 1.5 with the current balance.

[STM1993]

That, I have no choice but to agree. The problem is, how are we going to weaken the AK? Give it back a +1 fireinterval or lower its ammo? I, for one, do not support damage per shot nerfs for the AK, neither do I support nerfing its accuracy.

[excruciator]

I would leave it the way it is.
Or give back the slow fire rate, I liked that ak better.

[Poop]

As I mentioned in the other thread, if I was making the balance I would establish a certain usage or niche for each weapon, and balance from there. Right now AK has the good aspects of the minime (High damage, only 7 shots to kill) without its primary weakness (huge reload and movement acc).

Steyr being the best 1v1 Auto at long range, Mp5 the best 1v1 auto at short range, Minime being a powerful damager which is vulnerable during reload, AK can be developed into a slower killer that does alot of damage and has a short reload (In other words increase its fire interval). This would make AK the worst auto in 1v1, but the best in 1v2, 2v2 etc because it does the most damage but kills somewhat slowly and its never too vulnerable due to the pretty short 2.5 second reload.

[Clawbug]

In 1v2 situation no one has any chance.

Get two clanmates and try to beat them in 1v2. You will be dead way before you get the first one killed, especially if your weapon is sub-par compared to theirs.

[SDFilm]

In 1v2 situation no one has any chance.

Get two clanmates and try to beat them in 1v2. You will be dead way before you get the first one killed, especially if your weapon is sub-par compared to theirs.

Sorry, what is your point? Of course 1v2 is unbalanced.

[excruciator]

In 1v2 situation no one has any chance.

Get two clanmates and try to beat them in 1v2. You will be dead way before you get the first one killed, especially if your weapon is sub-par compared to theirs.

Sorry, what is your point? Of course 1v2 is unbalanced.

His point is that poop is wrong about ak being good in 1v2.

Ak should not be nerfed. It's not overpowered in anyway. It's just what you expect in an auto. Constant, stable output of damage while being relatively easy to handle.

[8th_account]

Overpowered or not, it's overused. How would you combat that, excruciator?

[Platehead]

High damage and accuracy are what marks the AK, so I don't think much should be done about that
Fire rate may tune down its popularity, and would just make it a long lasting gun I guess (slow firerate, 40 bullets and decent reload)
Would it be underpowered like that?

[STM1993]

One of the goals is to balance the usage of the weapons, not just to balance their power.

I think the AK's a great gun, but I'm convinced its going to be too strong as we move towards the new balance. I like its current firepower and its amazing accuracy, but its firing rate is simply a bit too fast. Look at the stats Poop has provided - the Minimi is supposed to have superior DOT to the AK, yet they perform marginally. Minimi's general inaccuracy makes this whole situation worse.

For ammo issues, many would prefer the AK to the Minimi, because the AK reloads much faster and its 40 bullets can last pretty long. Speaking in terms of CTF: Even though the Minimi can, obviously, last longer, I believe that by the time you run out ammo, chances are you'd probably be dead. Same goes for the AK, but I wouldn't be surprised to know that the AKer may survive long enough and be able to complete his reload. With every 20 ammo, the AK can easily kill 2 opponents - but for the Minimi its probably only just enough.

AK is much better for offense, Minimi is better for defense. However, no one plays defensively (CTF, where offense is the best defense), and some of the other weapons could have done better than the Minimi in defensive situations. Range is actually not really a big advantage for the Minimi, as it can be easily nullified by inaccuracy caused by movement. You can argue with the fact that bink cancels movementacc, but self-bink only takes place after the 4th shot.

In practice, the AK is superior to the Minimi. I hate to admit it but the AK's strengths are making it way too powerful. Not so much of its damage per shot or accuracy, but its ammo and firing rate.



Sooner or later all the weapons have to be buffed anyway. Now's the time to balance out the usage, otherwise no matter how balanced the weapons are, people will still use the same few weapons rather than have a greater diversity.

[excruciator]

Overpowered or not, it's overused. How would you combat that, excruciator?

I wouldn't.

Just because people are sheeps does not mean other weapons are crap.

High damage and accuracy are what marks the AK, so I don't think much should be done about that
Fire rate may tune down its popularity, and would just make it a long lasting gun I guess (slow firerate, 40 bullets and decent reload)
Would it be underpowered like that?

obviously you haven't played 1.3.1

Ak was, the ultimate assault weapon.

[STM1993]

obviously you haven't played 1.3.1

Ak was, the ultimate assault weapon.

Indeed it was.

Personally I think the AK should follow something similar to the old version, with the current Minimi together. That way the two guns are a lot more distinct in DOT and DPS. Then again, the old AK was overpowered, so it'd need some tweaks if the new balance were to follow the old AK.

[excruciator]

Well, ak was used to spray.
The bullet damage after 1 screen was reduced a lot, that significantly reduced ak' effectiveness

I would just put the rate and damage back to 1.3.1 and cut the clip to 30 or 35(30 might be a little extreme, but I think it'll still work.)