Israel and Palestine.

[Dascoo]

Command, this is Delta 1 commencing s**tstorm in 3...2...1

EDIT: Useful input.

ISRAEL IS GIVING A GOOD FIGHT HOWEVER I BELIEVE IT'S NOT WORTH IT CONSIDERING THE AMOUNT OF EMIGRATION HAPPENING IN THE COUNTRY AND THE UNTERMENSCH HORDES ARE GROWING CONSIDERABLY IN COMPARISON

[Demonic]

Way to go and fail giving any useful input on the topic you bastard. May you live in a place where there's a warning sirene going off every hour, or a couple of kilometers away from there, where you get vacuum-bombs dropping for good measure.

[Slashnoob]

this is going to be one huge s**tstorm fest.
i'm an Israeli jew, i will refrain from posting my opinions because it will immediatly be considered a 'vile zionist propoganda'.
therefore i'll just wait for some usual arguements from the other side and will try to answer them.

edit - this is a classic thread for m00 to come back and start posting his shit.

[pavliko]

fap fap fap.......................
hope this will be the last war or how ever they call it.

[ElephantHunter]

Israel violated international law in their attack on Gaza, and those responsible for war crimes should be brought to justice. There are some actions you simply must not take in war. Of course, the people of Israel know that too well.

[Sir Jeremy]

Prove that they are the ones breaking the international law ElephantHunter, because I heard it was the other way around.. Just want to know who is right here.

[ElephantHunter]

Nice joke. Do you watch the news? They bombed a city, you know... killing about 1,400 people. That's a war crime under international law.

[Demonic]

It's all fucked up. People are assembling kassam missiles using old heaterparts and other scrap, and are firing a bunch of them at random intervals. The effectiveness of this is very poor, rarely ever hitting or doing any real damage - but it still can't be pleasant living in a town where the sky might start spitting one of these buggers at any time, be it day or night.

Israel probably has the most advanced military in the world right now, and could vaporize the whole Gaza area... people die in mass numbers, and in the end there's a handful of politicians and their respective parties benefiting from the bloodshed. Shit.

[Slashnoob]

Nice joke. Do you watch the news? They bombed a city, you know... killing about 1,400 people. That's a war crime under international law.

There is also an international law (and a Geneva ammendmant) that if a place is used by militants in order to fight another force, it does not render it immune if it's populated by any VIP or civilians. Tho not too many people remember or even want to remember that one.

It's pretty hard not to kill civilians when your target is basically a terror organisation that was democratically elected (forced or not) that refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist, constantly bombing Israeli civilian targets for the only purpose to kill innocents, and hides behind innocents while doing so.

The whole I/P conflict should NEVER EVER be discussed with simplifying things to that level. "Israel killed civilians, I saw a dead baby on the news, Israel must be the guilty party" - is wrong and juvenile.

It's just laughable to think it's possible to stick to internatinal laws 100% when you are dealing with an organisation such as Hamas. I suppose you are aware to the ammount of international and moral unwritten laws Hamas has broken..?

Demonic, Israel does not have the most advanced army, but it's army is certainly advanced enough. If Israel cared not about the innocent civilians in Gaza it would just flat it in less than 24 hours. I gotta go now but I'll be back to hear the buzz soon enough.

[Sir Jeremy]

Nice joke. Do you watch the news? They bombed a city, you know... killing about 1,400 people. That's a war crime under international law.

Who was the first one to start firing the missiles again after the ceasefire?

[PANZERCATWAGON]

im incredibly ignorant in the fact that i dont care about the fighting in gaza at the moment because it doesnt directly affect me

all i know is sum d00ds in the middle east are bombing sum d00ds because they have different religious views

whatever you believe or political stance you have about these wars doesnt really matter because youre probably wrong because 98% of your information comes from the news or wrongipedia

so i tend to try and steer clear of political issues like this

just thought id justify why i dont give a s**t

[SDFilm]

Nice joke. Do you watch the news? They bombed a city, you know... killing about 1,400 people. That's a war crime under international law.

That's on the condition that the bombing is indiscriminate*. Israel uses F-16s to bomb instead of B-52s. That and what Slashnoob said.

*Though just how discriminate they are depends on which news channel you watch.

[LtKillroy]

Israel is finally capitalizing on the fact that no one will do anything to them. US guns and support, still a lot of sympathy from the Holocaust, crazy dictators all over the place making death threats for more sympathy from the rest of the world, small area that is mostly useless land no one wants, and after Iraq/Afghanistan no one wants to go to war. Therefore unless someone wants to do something, I don't see why they shouldn't try and get what they want from a pure "no one is stopping them, so why not" standpoint.

[ElephantHunter]

@Sir Jeremy: I'm not sure. Is this question leading to a point?

@Slashnoob: When your opponent is committing crimes against humanity, you are never justified to fight fire with fire.

@SDFilm: Israel didn't just bomb a few military targets. Consider this: Rockets and mortars from Hamas have killed exactly three Israeli civilians. Israel's bombs have killed around 1,000 Palestinian non-combatants. This tends to happen when you bomb schools, hospitals and UN refugee centers.

[Sir Jeremy]

Yes, Gaza was the one to continue firing the missiles, so of course I'm guessing Israel is going to fire back..and just because Gaza can't hit their targets is not Israels fault.  And Israel told them at the beginning of the fireing, that they will fire anywere. 

Defence Minister Ehud Barak said Israel was not fighting the people of Gaza but was in "a war to the bitter end" with Hamas, which has ruled Gaza since 2007.

Hamas officials say that 312 Palestinians have been killed in all, and more than 1,400
others wounded.

The last two paragraphs were quotes from bbc news.

Also from Wikipedia:

In late December 2008, a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel collapsed after rockets were fired from the Hamas controlled Gaza Strip. Israel responded by launching Operation Cast Lead with a series of airstrikes.  On 3rd January 2009, Israeli Troops entered Gaza marking the start of a ground offensive. On Saturday, January 17, Israel announced a unilateral ceasefire, conditional on elimination of further rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza, and began withdrawing over the next several days Hamas later announced its own ceasefire, with its own conditions of complete withdrawal and opening of border crossings. A reduced level of mortar fire originating in Gaza continues, though Israel has so far not taken this as a breach of the ceasefire.

[pavliko]

Israel violated international law in their attack on Gaza, and those responsible for war crimes should be brought to justice. There are some actions you simply must not take in war. Of course, the people of Israel know that too well.

Gaza bombed Israeli cityes for like 8 years and Israel didn't do anything about it...violated international law you say?

[LtKillroy]

You cannot look at this situation without looking back to when Israel was created and then its entire history, not just a few recent incidents. In fact, you probably should look to the areas entire history for thousands of years. These people have been fighting for centuries and probably would destroy each other given the chance. This situation is just a small bump in Isreal/Arab relations. Israel has basically been fighting since it was created, so to say "who started it" goes back much more than a few weeks ago and has no clear answer.

[Farah]

seriously anybody who actually supports israel is pretty wrong in the respect of what's going on. hamas fired sugar rockets at israel, killing a few, plus israel have pretty good defences against this type of thing. but guess what? they go off and use this excuse to kill thousands of people! seriously the intentions of the israeli government isn't relevant; hamas are as much to blame for this than the israeli government is. this isn't a question of supporting the lesser of two evils - the only true victims here are the people of palestine and israel, dying and funding their own demise while being drawn into propaganda made by these shitty organisaitions.

if you support either the israeli government or hamas you're as ignorant and biased as fuck.

[Slashnoob]

Elephant, if Israel was to engage a "tooth for a tooth" attitude it would launch an unguided MLRS rocket for every Qassam in it's land, just to show it's ability and willingness to retaliate. The situation is not like so.
When rockets are being launched into your country's sovereign areas, and the group that is launching those rockets (for 8 years, if you may) also happens to be the elected government, which means NO inner opposition party or force is going to even exist, there aren't many options other than a military campaign.

The whole proportion arguement never had any legitimacy in my eyes and it is used on the very irrational purpose of comparing the damage in both sides. The only reason there aren't 1000 Israeli casualties per month is the fact that Hamas simply doesn't have anything bigger to shoot. It is already shooting it's most deadly arsenal which happen to be Grad and Qassam missiles. The fact that not many Israelies are dying is because they didn't get their hands into anything catastrophic.

[Farah]

you have a point slashnoob; hamas would do exactly the same to israel given the chance but this furthers my argument even further that THERE IS NO LESSER OF TWO EVILS, this whole damned situation cannot be justified in anyway whatsoever.