the sf colony

[PANZERCATWAGON]

heres a question; if you had the chance to effectively start from scratch in creating a new and seperate empire of man, how would you go about it? we all know its just a matter of time before humanity destroys itself so what if we could start over, or at least somewhere else

heres how this is going to work. i strike oil in my backgarden tommorow. im now a filthy rich bastard. we are going to set up shop on the moon. now im pretty sure geologist is going to say something about how the raw materials in the moons crust are worth practically nothing or something, BUT the moon is just the closest thing i can think of to a place which a country here on earth doesnt claim to own or wouldnt start wars with us about. if youve got a better idea let me know

im the one with the money so i now appoint myself president of the moon. now it is up to you to say either what you would like this new colony to be like or what you think it should be like in humanities best interests

if you think you know enough about a certain subject like politics then i can make you the secretary in something like defense or whatever

first things first, im going to say straight out that the goverment of this colony will have no religion. the citizens are free to believe in what they like, but the state is religion free. and no i dont mean athiesm, i mean no views at all, bringing religion into politics is the worst thing ever so were having none of that

but yeah, start chucking ideas. id like to hear what each of you thinks would form a perfect world

[STM1993]

There should definitely be a good quiet hangout, kinda like a library. There, you can enjoy either the aircon indoors, or enjoy the natural breeze. There would be no talking/noise/going hyper, but you get to sit there alone without the risk of being interrupted and perhaps do some drawing, homework, reading, surf the internet quietly... you name it. There should also be some kind of cafeteria there, so people can eat and drink whilst doing their work and minding their own businesses. Handphones to be switched to silent, listening to music is allowed as long as you have earpieces.

(Personally) I don't like anything to do with smoking, though I understand that there are people who like to smoke for reasons such as stress relief. So preferably there could be some regions where smoking is restricted, such as those quiet spots I mentioned, and other spots where smoking is 100% allowed. Or at least, if the technology allows it, make some kind of cigarette that doesn't release those smoke.

I may add more overtime via editing.

[PANZERCATWAGON]

ok

smoking policies are great and all but when i talked about colonising the moon i dont just mean one small shitty dome in the middle of nowhere. of course that would be the situation if you first started out but once people starting HAVING SEX and making babies id want the whole moon to be populated

that way the moon wouldnt be split up into countries like we have here on earth. which would also mean people dont squabble and there arent any wars or civil wars, because everyone that lives on the moon is all under one government.

id issue a message to earth though. something like 'the moon is ours. we are not going to start any wars with you lot, you can do what you want. but dont start anything with us, we have atomic engineers up here you know'

trade with earth would still be fine though, otherwise wed have no financial support later on :0

[iDante]

The most important aspect involved with moon living is the creation of water and food. Unfortunately, there's none there. So, we'd have to take it from Earth. This would tie us to the countries that we buy it from, totally removing the whole country-less idea you have.

[a-4-year-old]

Didn't some company try to make their own country by buying an island? I think the UN didn't let them.

[Dascoo]

Colony drop on those Feddy scum!

[Kagesha]

i demand prostitution with hawt chicks only

[Mangled*]

Brilliant, a debate fueled by conjecture.

Let me know how it goes.

[N. Escalona]

bestest idea ever

I think about this kind of scenario all the time! I'm a social and political idealist, so the first step for me when deciding whether something should be illegal or whatever is always starting from first principles. I'll post my ideas on this sometime, but cba right now.

that way the moon wouldnt be split up into countries like we have here on earth. which would also mean people dont squabble and there arent any wars or civil wars, because everyone that lives on the moon is all under one government.

That's a dangerously naïve idea. Any society must be prepared for crime and even organized rebellion.

first things first, im going to say straight out that the goverment of this colony will have no religion. the citizens are free to believe in what they like, but the state is religion free. and no i dont mean athiesm, i mean no views at all, bringing religion into politics is the worst thing ever so were having none of that

Despite being a very religious person, I agree with you here. For utterly different reasons though: I would not want the Church affiliated with a government from fear of corrupting the Church, as has happened historically.

[The Geologist]

heres a question; if you had the chance to effectively start from scratch in creating a new and seperate empire of man, how would you go about it? we all know its just a matter of time before humanity destroys itself so what if we could start over, or at least somewhere else

heres how this is going to work. i strike oil in my backgarden tommorow. im now a filthy rich b*****d. we are going to set up shop on the moon. now im pretty sure geologist is going to say something about how the raw materials in the moons crust are worth practically nothing or something, BUT the moon is just the closest thing i can think of to a place which a country here on earth doesnt claim to own or wouldnt start wars with us about. if youve got a better idea let me know

im the one with the money so i now appoint myself president of the moon. now it is up to you to say either what you would like this new colony to be like or what you think it should be like in humanities best interests

if you think you know enough about a certain subject like politics then i can make you the secretary in something like defense or whatever

first things first, im going to say straight out that the goverment of this colony will have no religion. the citizens are free to believe in what they like, but the state is religion free. and no i dont mean athiesm, i mean no views at all, bringing religion into politics is the worst thing ever so were having none of that

but yeah, start chucking ideas. id like to hear what each of you thinks would form a perfect world

Hell, I wouldn't say anything like that. Mainly because I've had the rare opportunity to actually look at lunar samples.

The good thing about the moon is that the rocks/minerals there don't weather like they do here on earth.  There are many resources on the moon in terms of basic raw materials (i.e. potassium, iron, etc.) that could be used.  If you want a man on the moon to tell you what part of the moon to rape utilize, I'm game.  But let's make this clear - this is a join venture and I'm not a man to be f**ked with.  Together we can win.

Also, the moon is a great staging area for further exploration.  Get a stable colony/exploratory effort out there and the wheels are already set in motion.

Tomorrow the moon, the day after tomorrow some place farther away than the moon.

[PANZERCATWAGON]

that way the moon wouldnt be split up into countries like we have here on earth. which would also mean people dont squabble and there arent any wars or civil wars, because everyone that lives on the moon is all under one government.

That's a dangerously naïve idea. Any society must be prepared for crime and even organized rebellion.

hey i didnt say we wouldnt have a state police, im just saying that the problem of territorial disputes. there would still be crime cause, you know, humans will be humans

but at least there wouldnt be war

Didn't some company try to make their own country by buying an island? I think the UN didn't let them.

if thats true, ultimately the only reason they failed was because they didnt have enough money. with enough money you can buy anything, including an army. which is what we would have, a massive massive army. buy it from cuba or something

no country or collective on earth is going to want anyone to start grabbing land that they could have, everyone is power mad. the only thing that stops any country from taking over the world is the fear of being attacked by another countries military (or a military in alliance with that country). if we had a massive army on the moon, people wouldnt like it, but they also wouldnt be able to do anything about it

i demand prostitution with hawt chicks only

kagesha is now the secretary of prostitution. you have complete control over the hoes of this colony

i have studied moon rocks

you are now secretary of resources.

im an ass

this forum is filled with people who have strong opinions and views about political and religious issues. a lot of you seem to think you know exactly what the government is doing wrong.

well this is your chance to prove that why you would do a much better job of it.

also idante makes a good point about water and food. maybe its just me but i always thought the sun would be enough to provide energy to a colony. with the technology and know how that we have in this age, rather than when countries first started out, there should be a lot of things possible that maybe werent years ago. make a dome, add some oxygen, add some water, grow some plants, farm them, repeat. sounds fairly simple enough

[Dascoo]

I say we build a fleet of Orion Battleships and conquer the solar system.

[Kazuki]

What about your social structure? Would it be based on merit? On wealth? On chance? Would you incorporate social inequality or would you go for more of a communist approach?

[PANZERCATWAGON]

thats what im asking you kazuki

hmmm but i suppose it would be good to have inequality. true equality is impossible so i reckon it would probably be a bad decision to have a government working towards it

but then again i dont know i was hoping youd have a good idea kazuki

[Kazuki]

Well, I probably wouldn't have an accurate idea either, because I base my conclusions on a series of "what-if" situations. Here's what I think, though.

The theory of social inequality says that everyone starts out on the same level, and from there on, it's survival of the fittest. He who works hardest and has the greatest intelligence becomes a doctor or a chemical engineer or something like that. Those on the opposite end become fast food vendors and janitors. But this is only accurate for one generation. After that, the children of doctors are granted access to many benefits and advantages, such as the highest education and so on. The children of janitors are basically shit out of luck. Of course, there is upward mobility for lower classes, but their opportunities are severely limited in comparison to upper classes.

On the other hand, perfect equality, or Marxism (communism), can only be achieved in extremely small groups. I doubt that a village of over 50 citizens would be able to keep such a community stable.

I think that if you inject some equality into social inequality (I know, it sounds weird), it might work out pretty well. Say, hypothetically, that wealth wasn't part of the equation. You can still pass it onto your children and have advantages and benefits over the lower classes, but say that education and possibly healthcare were free. If so motivated, a janitor's child can attend universities for free and strive for a high-income career without being limited by the wealth of his or her parents. Inversely, if spoiled and unmotivated, upper-class children could fall down the ladder. The basic principles of social inequality are still there, and although people are still not given a completely equal position at the start of every generation, I believe it would be more equal than that of current systems.

As far as economy goes, it's a given that allowing free education would cut wages and so on, but I think it goes without saying that one can survive just fine on lower wages if he or she gets free healthcare and education.

Of course, you would need something to prevent upper-classes from passing legislature to keep themselves in that position. For example, passing legislature which no longer allows for free education would solidify the division of classes. Those of the lower class would find if more and more difficult to get somewhere in society, whereas it wouldn't be anywhere near as hard for those who have the money for it. Over time, this would lead to accumulation of wealth and your colony would be a mini replica of the United States.

[PANZERCATWAGON]

kazuki youre now in charge of social economics

[Kazuki]

Hahah! Can I be the chief of the Rock Band Division instead? If that doesn't exist (yet), I'll take Social Economics. >_>

But really, I'm mostly interested in hearing any opinions that differ from mine. The best way to polish a theory is to cover all your bases, and the best way to do that is to be presented with bases you wouldn't have thought about otherwise.

[N. Escalona]

hey i didnt say we wouldnt have a state police, im just saying that the problem of territorial disputes. there would still be crime cause, you know, humans will be humans

but at least there wouldnt be war

That's true for the most part. But what happens when a group of people get together and try to rebel? Will we crush them and propagandize the rest of the nation? While territorial divisions may not exist, that doesn't stop some people's need to create some. Violent rebellions must be treated as riots and suppressed, minimizing injury or loss of life. On the other hand, rebellions that have gone out of their way to avoid violence should be allowed to separate themselves from this government and become independent. While this does open up the possibility of war, I think that if we structure the nation right we will come out on top through artificial selection. People usually rebel because they want to change something in government; well, if we have the least-evil government, in the long run the rebels will never become powerful and military force can be applied if needed defensively.

You can still pass it onto your children and have advantages and benefits over the lower classes, but say that education and possibly healthcare were free. If so motivated, a janitor's child can attend universities for free and strive for a high-income career without being limited by the wealth of his or her parents. Inversely, if spoiled and unmotivated, upper-class children could fall down the ladder. The basic principles of social inequality are still there, and although people are still not given a completely equal position at the start of every generation, I believe it would be more equal than that of current systems.

This is in the right direction, but there are other consequences of socializing education and health care. Socializing education, especially if done all the way up through doctoral research, will need extremely careful regulation to avoid the situation present in Earthly public education systems. We need standards to measure teachers by and teachers who fail to meet those standards will meet consequences instead. This also has the danger of creating a class of educators that has significant power in influencing the political views of the students.

I don't see any advantages in public education that can't be solved with a simple voucher system, with the private education system regulated by the government.

Socializing health-care has it's obvious good points. However, there's no question it stifles health-care development: the capitalist drive no longer exists. Therefore I propose a compromise: any medical development may be patented for a maximum of 10 years. After the 10 year limit, the development by law becomes public domain, and will be incorporated into the public health-care system. This has the enormous advantage of providing, for free, the best medical technology except the most cutting-edge ones to everyone, while still allowing the industry to be driven by profit because 10 years is a long time to sell something.

Of course, you would need something to prevent upper-classes from passing legislature to keep themselves in that position. For example, passing legislature which no longer allows for free education would solidify the division of classes. Those of the lower class would find if more and more difficult to get somewhere in society, whereas it wouldn't be anywhere near as hard for those who have the money for it. Over time, this would lead to accumulation of wealth and your colony would be a mini replica of the United States.

This is why our colony, no question, needs a constitution, enumerating basic rights and sundry other important things. This is IMO the most important element of any kind of government we choose to establish.

[Psycho]

We need a currency. Space ducats or something.
How would trading work? We would probably be completely depended on trade with earth, so do we have enough raw materials?

We need tourism traffic there. Would make for a goldmine.

[LtKillroy]

As far as government is concerned, just make sure you have a definate agenda on how you want it to work that is as clear as possible. Many of the civilizations that have died over the years is due in no small part to changing of the focus of government, and many more go through a decline when they change the type of government they have. Small thought.