Author Topic: Invisible bullets = panic  (Read 6144 times)

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Offline echo_trail

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Invisible bullets = panic
« on: August 02, 2006, 04:14:53 am »
Hi guys
You know how in war movies and stuff, when someone is nailed by a sniper it panics everyone. Like in Saving Private Ryan, when Carparzo is shot by a german sniper in a churchtower. The hole group panics, and they're forced to take cover.

I think this would be worth adding to soldat. Now, I thought to myself what's the trouble in this, and then it occured to me. Soldat being such a "fast" game, makes people just storm out and shoot in the direction from which enemy fire is coming. Why not make shots invisible?
I know people will go like, "Oh c'mon, soldat's not about being realistic!", but just think about it for a sec, it would be so much harder to aim, and there would be much more panic going on. It would make soldat a hell lot more static! Also, there would finally be an actual use for proning..

I think it would also be great for tactical events, such as confusing the enemy with crossfire. As it is now, it doesn't take more than half a second to get overwiev, and a good ruger user can easely take down the ambushing guys themselfs. In realistic at least.

I don't suggest this is a permanent solution, but perhaps it could be added as a checkbox in in the server settings.

what do you say?
thanks,
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Offline EnEsCe

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2006, 04:41:42 am »
um, no... some of us actually like dodging snipers bullets.

Offline echo_trail

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2006, 04:47:38 am »
Oh c'mon NSC. You aren't dodging a snipers bulelt unless you're aware of the sniper before he shoots, or just out of pure luck.

The way I see it we might as well just add some excitement too it.
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Offline MofoNofo

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2006, 05:15:42 am »
Mod your bullets. Its obvious no-one else wants this.

Offline Tallacaps

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2006, 05:19:10 am »
I like it as a server option.

Offline Zegovia

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2006, 05:19:24 am »
Belive that EVERY single gun in this game uses tracer rounds.... :P

Or they could change so just  every fifth shot or so are a tracer round... ;D

Offline Meep.

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2006, 05:23:48 am »
Meh, bullets aid in aiming, so no thanks.  :-\

Offline X-Rayz

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2006, 05:34:34 am »
Quote
Also, there would finally be an actual use for proning..

No use? Ever heard of increased aim? Smaller target for bullets? Superman ring a bell?

Also, if there were invisible bullets, it would be too confusing. No way of getting out of the spray of that minigun. You'd get torn to bits.

IF...and thats a big IF... this was implemented then it would have to be in realistic AND it would have to be an option.

Offline The Chapter

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2006, 05:50:20 am »
I actually like this idea. Shooting at what you think the target is, seeing your buddy next to go down, making you hit the deck and fire at what your thinking is the enemy to actually find out he's behind you. Heh. Very cool.

Offline Sotija

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2006, 05:51:29 am »
Not really to soldat.

Offline VijchtiDoodah

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2006, 05:52:44 am »
Mod your bullets. Its obvious no-one else wants this.

Because you and EnEsCe are everyone.

I'm impartial -- I'd really like to test it out before making a judgement.  All the rest of you might at least try it out some time to see what it's like and then tell Echo what you think.  Meanwhile, don't knock an idea that can easily be just another option...and who wouldn't want more room for customization?

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Offline {LAW} Gamer_2k4

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2006, 08:27:53 am »
Why not make shots invisible?

Because people already whine when they get shot with a one hit kill weapon.  If you get killed without having a chance to dodge you feel like the game is unfair.  Your suggestion will bring the wonderful world of whining not other weapons.  Player panic is not a good thing.

Also, there would finally be an actual use for proning..

No use? Ever heard of increased aim? Smaller target for bullets? Superman ring a bell?

X-Rayz summed up my thoughts exactly.  You'd be surprised at how many shots you can dodge just by going prone.  If another player is shooting at me, I'll go prone and kill them with the ruger while they're still firing at where I was.  Also, you can avoid a good deal of m79 and barret shots by supermanning (other guns too, but those are the ones people complain about).
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Offline Will

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2006, 08:33:08 am »
I like it . I was planning on suggesting it but I was afraid that you guys would flame me XD.

Offline a-4-year-old

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2006, 08:35:45 am »
its really not for soldat.

I would like to see this for the barret only, and obviously, the m79 stays.

soldat isn't a movie, so what would be looking over your box and the guy next to you falls would be something like this...

you are camping your base and major spawns,
sniper takes him out.
major:WTF!!!!!!
major gets shot a second time
major: OMFG GEH
major continues to be shot up by this sniper/spawner until the sniper runs out of bullets,
sniper is easily seen on top of the hill /victory ing
*skips slow motion aiming crap from the movies*
Bang!
you  realize you picked an ak not a barret
Bangbangbangbang bangbangbangbang bang
you:PWNED!!!!
major has left the game


both of you are missing the best part of proning LOW FREAKING BINK i thought someone would realize it... jeez
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Offline TDL

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2006, 10:39:54 am »
In realistic bullets (and nades) are invisible if you can't see the enemy.

And I'm against the idea because it'd just create TOO much confusion.

Offline echo_trail

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2006, 10:56:13 am »



Also, there would finally be an actual use for proning..

No use? Ever heard of increased aim? Smaller target for bullets? Superman ring a bell?

X-Rayz summed up my thoughts exactly. You'd be surprised at how many shots you can dodge just by going prone. If another player is shooting.. Bla, Bla bla..

Yes, I am aware of that. I meant simply for the original idea of proning. Or the original thought of it as I see it: To lie in a bush somewhere, pretty much camping. I don't mean to make this a camping discussion thread, but let's face it, camping is okay.

But it's of little matter. I was just sharing this idea with ya'll, thinking you might find it interresting. Appearently you don't. That's okay. I just think this society has to be carefull not to get all too conservative.

I like it . I was planning on suggesting it but I was afraid that you guys would flame me XD.

Geez, why would you? ¬_¬
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Offline Keron Cyst

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2006, 07:59:35 pm »
Invisible bullets = panic? They wouldn't panic, they'd just go "wt..." Heck, they already do due to lag :P But if it's just another option, and if it wouldn't take very long to code in, I'm not against it at all.

Offline Dark Jesus

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2006, 08:08:17 pm »
nah
it just would make stuff complicated

Offline ElephantHunter

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2006, 09:19:29 pm »
Deleted Valorman's enlarged "No" that had no accompanying explaination.

This is actually an awesome suggestion. In real life, you can't see a fired round in mid-air. Modern day American military personnel actually have a flare-like bullet every few rounds to show them where they are firing (this obviously gives away their position, so they only use it in certain scenarios.) I think it would totally add to the realism of the game and be well accepted by the community, granted there is a server-side option to switch the feature on/off.

Edit - Valorman, if you want to debate, do it via PM or in another forum. This is not an acceptable place.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 09:31:57 pm by ElephantHunter »
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Offline SDFilm

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2006, 09:30:30 pm »
Hmm, I don't like the sound of it, because ducking in fear for your life etc is really for realistic mode. Normal mode is all about the aiming.

I use tracer rounds so that I can see me my bullets (and they normally are my bullets as relatively few people use the FN Minimi) in grey maps. They are bright red with a bit of white/yellow at the back. I've also thought about colour coding each weapons bullets so that you know what is being fired at you (if its not already obvious), although I have not done that yet.

Edit: I might liek it as a server option, but not all the time.

Mod your bullets. Its obvious no-one else wants this.

I was just about to joke about how people always say "mod it yourself" even though the person is asking to make a proper change to the game, and then you actually said it.   ::)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 09:54:14 pm by SDFilm »

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Offline Gold

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2006, 03:05:07 am »
This is a good idea, well c'mon everyone boasts about how great they are with sniper & knife and that they are pro's why not add this to the game as a server option?

Offline 13579

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2006, 03:45:02 am »
I  FUCKIN' LOVE IT!

This would add a whole new world to soldat....I say server option/realistic mode option.


I really beleave that when you enable realistic a options menu should comeup with all of these ideas as options...


But it will never happen...:(

Offline CheeSeMan.

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2006, 03:47:19 am »
hell no...half the time i aim with my bullets not the cursor...
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Offline Mr. Domino

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2006, 04:10:01 am »
In real life, you can't see a fired round in mid-air.

In real-life, you wouldn't be able to dodge most shots from any weapon.
In real-life, you'd crumple after being shot.
In real-life, you wouldn't jump three stories high.
In real-life, you'd run out of ammo.
In real-life, a thrown knife wouldn't kill someone faster than a Ruger.
In real-life, you can't minisurf.
In real-life, you can't rocketjump.
In real-life, you don't respawn after dying.

Yadda yadda yadda...

It's a horrible idea, especially to apply it to just one weapon. The panic you're trying to recreate will never be a factor as long as you can respawn.

Offline Krillious

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2006, 04:45:06 am »
If I could see my bullets then fine, but if I can't see my own bullets, I don't support this idea.
Mainly because I aim with the bullets, and most of the weapons that have an arc do that too, thus most people will end up using precise long range weapons. Also this will mean that most of the people will end-up camping, since locating the sniper will be harder

Offline 13579

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2006, 04:22:42 pm »
thus most people will end up using precise long range weapons. Also this will mean that most of the people will end-up camping, since locating the sniper will be harder


So? its more realistic. It should still be a option. *stabs floodcontrole in back*


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Offline A

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2006, 09:15:56 pm »
Occasionally I will get blasted by a law and not see it, or hit by a barret bullet that's traveled so far that it is invisible.

I prefer that this happen occasionally, not always.

My vote is no.

Offline Mancer

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2006, 10:07:42 pm »
You can already turn your bullets off in soldat config.
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Offline 13579

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2006, 10:11:43 pm »
The point of this is everyone not to see bulets, not just one person.

Offline X-Rayz

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2006, 11:08:16 pm »
If a camping sniper gets you in the game at least you can see where the bullet came from. If this was on it could have come anywhere. There wont be 'OMGOMGOMGWHEREISIT??', they'll be 'wtf sif bs'. And then people will whine and whine and whine. It might seem good in theory but in the long run people will just be sick of it.

Offline NinjaXrage

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2006, 03:53:32 am »

An option would be awesome. Hehe predator sniper

Offline Yukwunhang

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2006, 07:16:50 am »
1) All guns have a unique curve in Soldat, unlike FPSs where bullets go in a straight line. You can't a aim without seeing where the bullets actually go; bullets do not reach your crosshair. How are we suppose to learn the curve without actually seeing it?

2) Everyone will start spraying and barreting. Barret is the only gun that you can aim without seeing the bullet. When your target is on your screen, that is.

Offline echo_trail

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2006, 07:59:47 am »
Hmm.. What if only your own bullets was visible to you? And Friendly fire as well?
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Offline {LAW} Gamer_2k4

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2006, 08:16:02 am »
An option would be awesome. Hehe predator sniper

Aren't your bullets already invisible in predator mode?  I'm not sure, but I think that's the case.
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Offline VijchtiDoodah

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2006, 04:45:53 pm »
1) All guns have a unique curve in Soldat, unlike FPSs where bullets go in a straight line. You can't a aim without seeing where the bullets actually go; bullets do not reach your crosshair. How are we suppose to learn the curve without actually seeing it?

Play anything long enough and you can figure it out.  Besides, you can see where your bullets hit -- they make a little puff of stuff when they hit a polygon.

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Offline The Geologist

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2006, 04:58:09 pm »
I think this would be great for realistic mode.  A small add on...would be be that hard?  Either way, this one gets my vote.
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Offline Mistercharles

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2006, 07:21:59 pm »
I'm working on a tactical mod that replaces grenades with EnEsCe's flashbang (in strings, gfx, and behavior), makes every bullet move faster, increase reload, and now, bullets will be invisible (some at least).
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Offline Kaine

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2006, 07:49:16 pm »
seems good, but the automatic weaponry will have to have tracer rounds however, so people arnt reduced as much to spraying.  There could be a tracer say every 3-4 rounds, and with the barret, and ruger, all the bullets would be tracers.  How does that sound?

Offline Shadow G-Unit

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2006, 07:59:38 pm »
um, no... some of us actually like dodging snipers bullets.
I agree with EnEsCe. Its easy to dodge them!


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Offline The Geologist

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2006, 08:23:42 pm »
You're saying that if someone were to shoot at you with the barret..and you somehow manage to see the bullet coming..you'd have time to react and dodge?

I find that very hard to believe.
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Offline echo_trail

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2006, 03:18:11 am »
I agree^^
But somehow people to have great faith in their neo abilities when it comes to this. I'd like to take it up for the test!

I'm working on a tactical mod that replaces grenades with EnEsCe's flashbang (in strings, gfx, and behavior), makes every bullet move faster, increase reload, and now, bullets will be invisible (some at least).

This sounds great, man. You probably will anyway, but make sure to post about it when it's done..
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Offline nidpants

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2006, 11:22:31 am »
I think this is a good idea for Realistic, and for the Barrett (don't flame me) in all modes. I'm not sure about the AK-74, AUG, or MP5, but the Minimi and the XM214 would obviously have tracers like they do in real life. Not every bullet, but every 4th or 5th bullet.

But nid, how would we guide our shots? Well, you can do it like they do in real life - watch where you're aiming, and guess, then watch for that little splash of dirt, and use that as your guide. Would things get confusing in a huge firefight? Obviously. Does this actually happen? Duh.

Now to defend my position about non-Realistic: The Barrett is a rifle. It is a .50 caliber/12.7mm anti-material round, but far more importantly, it's a SNIPER RIFLE. The keyword is "sniper", meaning that the shooter is supposed to SNIPE. Sniping emphasizes marksmanship, patience, and CONCEALMENT. Tactically, snipers are used for two purposes: taking out high-value targets, and disruption. There are no high-value targets in Soldat, so that leaves us with only one purpose for snipers - but disruption doesn't exactly work when it's very clear exactly where the shot came from. I realize that non-Realistic Soldat is not supposed to be reflective of real-world tactics and use of firearms, but seeing the exact trajectory of the bullet defeats the purpose of the Barrett altogether, destroying its biggest strength - its range. If any moron with an AK sees the bullet before it hits his buddy, he can just spray in that general direction, and send the sniper to Bink Hell, destroying his chance of a second shot. Let's not forget that the Barrett's effective range is easily exceeded by the random 45-degree spray most of the automatics.

Besides, if one is able to dodge a sniper rifle's shot, surely he's smart and agile enough to be able to do so without godlike knowledge of exactly where that shot came from, even if that means something as cowardly as leaving the backflips behind and looking for a collider or crater to hide behind. Even if one could dodge an 854 m/s round, (which I find dubious, but am not outright dismissing), this once again speaks for the lack of any role for the Barrett, since it's a one-shot-one-kill kind of weapon.

Offline A

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2006, 11:26:15 am »
There's already an option to turn off bullets, and most people won't like this idea, so just count your losses and uncheck that box already.

Offline Drakor

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2006, 12:30:10 pm »
There is NO option to turn off bullets!!! It turns off bullet TRAILS!!! the whitish semi-transparent doom that is a long vapor trail. NOT making bullets invisible, but making their TRAILS invisible.
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Offline numgun

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2006, 12:50:02 pm »


Dude, look at the picture and then imagine it with no bullets. smart? Nope.

Offline echo_trail

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2006, 01:44:41 pm »
Dude, most people ain't playing Mecha soldat, are they? Nope.
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Offline nidpants

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2006, 03:38:01 pm »
numgum, you're right; if you're flying around and there's no reference, then lack of tracers is a terrible idea (wouldn't mecha pilots always use tracers on rounds in space?).  But what I'm talking about has an actual point of reference, that is, dirt clouds. The "vapor trails" don't bother me, i would leave them on because they actually look like tracers, but being able to see the actual bullets without a tail seems very silly, like i'm playing Mega Man or Contra or something.

I would even say this is a good opportunity to make Soldat more exciting, with the sound of bullets flying past your ear when they stray too close but don't actually hit. If you think about every war or action movie you've ever seen, most of them don't rely on you actually being able to see the trajectory of the bullets, they rely on their frightening effect on the environment (dirt, doors, windows etc.) and unfortunate characters to give you the sense of danger.

Offline Pyroguy

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2006, 05:35:30 pm »
An option would be nice. But I don't want it to be default. It sounds like an interesting idea, just to mix up the play a little bit.

Offline Kaine

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2006, 09:55:37 pm »
good to hear that all of u are behind it.  jst one thing tho, what the hell is Mecha Soldat?

Offline VijchtiDoodah

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2006, 10:00:23 pm »
Michal's other game.  He only gave it to a few of us, though.

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2006, 04:14:18 am »
No he didn't. It was puplicated for download in the old forum. It's one of the most complete mods out there, and really sweet.
It's just incomparable to soldat, in this particular matter anyways.
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Offline Kaine

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2006, 06:14:09 pm »
do u think i could get a link? looks interesting.

Offline numgun

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2006, 10:41:46 am »
Doh, thats my Eradication wars mod... theres 2 guys in a ''dogfight'' on ctf_minerva with both having a RX-megarifle.

Still it would look very boring if there wouldnt be any bullets. just tiny fire muzzles and ppl bleeding for no apperant reason.

Offline echo_trail

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2006, 03:17:00 pm »
I agree with you. But it's still nor comparable to the ordinary soldat, since in you mod bullets are far more important as a visual factor. I mean, a lasergun isn't much of a lasergun if you don't see the laser, right? That's just not fun...
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Offline Will

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2006, 03:27:02 pm »
Ya he's right . There is a solution to this no bullet problem. Make the bullets go so fast that they go straight for an entire screen lenght. Thats what I did in my new mod.

Offline Bgretydews

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2006, 03:35:29 am »
You can already turn your bullets off in soldat config.

Hm how?!
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Offline a-4-year-old

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2006, 11:22:38 am »
You can already turn your bullets off in soldat config.

Hm how?!
just delete the last 7 lines of the soldat config. and delete weapons.ini
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Offline Death MachineX350

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2006, 07:28:00 pm »
Invisble bullets would suck hard. A whole team with barretts+ spawn camping in bushes= A suck *** Soldat.

Offline Kaine

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2006, 05:08:08 pm »
id guess that next people are gonna be goin for bullets travellin mostly straight, AND have increased speed so theres no way to dodge.  whats next.......
« Last Edit: August 16, 2006, 05:13:44 pm by Kaine »

Offline Darth

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2006, 03:33:35 pm »
There are plenty if actual uses for proning.

I like the idea about what you said when comparing to Saving Private Ryan. But it just wouldn't fit in. The game is too fast, action-packed to have invisible bullets. All people would say is "HACKER" or "WTH??!?!" or just not notice.

Offline echo_trail

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Re: Invisible bullets = panic
« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2006, 05:20:58 pm »
Maybe this is just too confusing. I suppose you guys might be right. Oh well, it was worth the shot...

F.L.A.B, you can close this topic now.
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