Poll

Should be "thinking bots" [Systhetic Intelligence] added to soldat ? - Read teh text first...

Yes, I dream of
Yes
I am not sure
No
Never !!!

Author Topic: New "thinking bots" ?  (Read 7263 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline LORD KILLA

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
  • Happie
New "thinking bots" ?
« on: February 16, 2009, 04:31:46 pm »
I dream all the time if i play with bots: "Please, let them think!"  :'(

I hope soldat will be the first game with really thinking bots !!!  ::)   ;)

So i decidet to post my idea here.
It neednt to be very big, there should me options to optimize "thinking quality" or "just select stardart bots"
Anyway.... I hope someone will try to follow my idea, but i think most will answer "Never !!!"
I wich the source code be posted here, and all can download and correct, give more ideas...
I am a beginner in C++/C#/VB or pascal, and cant write the whole program, but here ae my theories: [ www.microsoft.com/express/download/ ]
 
#1: Hide 'n Seek !
Bots, wich wont see someone in a box, will be needed to make ppl able to Hide in Boxes or something likt that. Normal bots are just getting X and Y of player, and 'RayCast...' function, but players want to hide ,[Hide 'n Seek!] Seekers will be the bots.
We will need to make edge detect function. Something what compares the Pixel before and after, and decide if there is a edge. later it will put got information to a 'map of edges' where bot can "think about them".
They will analyse it and decide again: "Is this thing a men/enemie/wall/flag/stat/nade/bullet..."
This step is very important. After it detects what kind of object it is, it puts it to a "archive", this should be an exters textfile, where the bot makes notes, The saving brain of the bot. And if it detects a 'something' it will compare it with the archive.
It will get the Colour of hair if it is ready with analyze and have not got anything over the "important-Level", the pants, the favourite weapon...
Heres an example how to detest a men, asking howto normal wall... just a line xD
hardcoded:
These should be the lines the Bot "imagin himself" to dtest what weapont the enemie/friend holdes, it[he] should got his own favourite weapon
But if there is a predator Men, it will be not so easy to detect, but if he fly ?:
there will be a "logic error" maybe not bad, but if you see somewhere a men shooting at jetflames....
So it (he) have to be able to thing realy, it have to thing over: what can avoid this ... ?
Thats why i cant do whole program.
#2: "Where am I ?"
This is how the bot will find his way/follow target.
We will need again the edge detector. If the map is ready, it looks for background... a noraml/static color, just blue for example. The Walls will be in a other color. if someone make a map where wall is like the background, and background looks like the wall, it will be still able to decide whats wall waht not. It will detect in what type it is in, and thinks: "here i am abele to move, so i cant move in something other"
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-]Next we need a 'wayfinder'. My idea is to make a thing tries all way possibilities and if the jets are enough, jet will be in 3 levels marked as "not enought" "maybe possible" "yes", so it (he/shy) wont calculate if it can fly such high or not, just calculate the chance.[/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-]Ok, the mover is realy the hardest thig here, just press keys [SendKeys.Send()] for it xD[/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-] [/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-]Next we will need to make something what detects where "should i go the nearest way to the flag ?"/"what wnwmies are comming here?"/"can i bet them ?"/"...".[/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-]it wont be very funny if a bot goes in the wrong direction, but it will stop. It is learning ^^, and you can tell him"oh men, thats the wrong way. follow me!", and it wil undertsand ! [/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-]So it will take notes... like in #1, but other ones.[/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-] [/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-]#3: ->player: "I hate bots!" ->bot:"what did you say?! I hate people !"[/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-] [/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-]If it can decide where it goes to, where it is, who someone is, whats the favourite weapon of someone, .... ? Why it should not understand and answer what people say ?[/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-][have i choses the right title? :D ][/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-]We will need one or more langues the bot knows, its better to make able to save the notes for next games, very recomendet by me (whould you like if someone delete you all things you ever thought of ?).[/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-]Than, the Positions of words, if all type well english, there wont be any problems. But almost all ppl type something like: "wow" "hurrrrraaaa!!!!!" "Ill kill u" "omg" "wuu2?" "..." it wont be very easy to make a "understandng bot". Cause of this I get teh idea, if programm cant decrype what a player said, it will allembly all words, question marks, ...  And try to set the "decrypt levels" of this words[/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-] [/b]
[bad idea to walk in walls -.-]
[will add more later, have to go sleep now... I hope you (or MM) will use thease theories ;) ][/b]

Offline ~Niko~

  • Rainbow Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2410
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2009, 04:38:46 pm »
awesome, but who will provide you of the source code?

Offline Rook_PL

  • Soldier
  • **
  • Posts: 242
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 05:04:22 pm »
Bots are useless, if real people are at hand why to bother improving bots? They need only amount of thinking to fill their zombie role. That's it.
btw. Check the spelling in your signature.

Offline iDante

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1966
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 05:35:52 pm »
While I am always for bot intelligence being helped (they are the first thing that a new soldat-player plays against), I don't think that it is that big of a deal.

Also most of your (technical) ideas are unimplementable or make no sense.

Offline ~Niko~

  • Rainbow Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2410
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 06:33:51 pm »
Also most of your (technical) ideas are unimplementable or make no sense.
lol just noticed it, i read between lines...

bots are for zombie matches only. Also who's the noob who plays against bots nowadays?

Offline EnEsCe

  • Retired Soldat Developer
  • Flamebow Warrior
  • ******
  • Posts: 3101
  • http://enesce.com/
    • [eC] Official Website
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 08:35:32 pm »
After reading the first two sentences of "Hide n' Seek" I had to stop...

All I could think of was, what the hell?

Offline chutem

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2009, 02:04:21 am »
IMO what would be good would be some kind of scriptable bots.
1NK3FbdNtH6jNH4dc1fzuvd4ruVdMQABvs

Offline STM1993

  • Rainbow Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2072
  • It's been a long time.
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2009, 06:32:04 am »
As cool as it would be to have more intelligent bots (to play in BOSS servers or to solve some problems which have affected the bots negatively), I think it's a waste of time. The best usage of bots is to act as a zombie, because although they are very limited in movement and intelligence (that indeed feels like a real zombie, compared to human players), the zombies are actually pretty good with the saw - simple yet effective (especially in large numbers), though they can be outsmarted depending on the map. You also have scripts to improve them in some ways.

If you really want to play with "intelligent bots", I suggest you play with human players instead. If you really want to fight bots that badly, then try and enter a scripted server whereby the bots are considerably stronger, like in BOSS servers.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 06:33:46 am by STM1993 »

Offline LORD KILLA

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
  • Happie
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2009, 08:39:15 am »
-.-

I thing, you are thinking in the wrong way, if there are "Inteligent Bots" more players will know soldat as the newest game with really thinking bots! And more ppl will play with them, they should have friends, too. So you can teach it.

Please take note to my idea.

Bot scripting will be needed to read notes and write them. Other players will maybe copy pase code to a new bot, but if there are two bot wich already know the same things they will be same strong

Please read, -its realy good idea!!!  :'( :'( :'(

Offline STM1993

  • Rainbow Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2072
  • It's been a long time.
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2009, 09:41:18 am »
Actually, this has been suggested quite a number of times before. Many, although agreeing that having a more intelligent AI is a pretty cool, would not support the idea.

1. People play online against OTHER players. Not bots. A very large majority do this.
2. If you play with bots, chances are its a mission, boss or zombie server or some scripted server, whereby the current AI works well enough with good waypointing.
3. Implementing this idea would possibly mean a whole change of the AI system and map system of Soldat, which is undesirable. This is a minor feature due to the above two points, so it is not worth the time to code - more time should be spent fixing bugs or adding more practical features.
4. Soldat is a simple game. Making it so over-sophisticated and advanced defeats the whole purpose.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 09:59:54 am by STM1993 »

Offline gladiator2

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 93
  • Future USMC soldier
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2009, 09:50:45 am »
Uh...

Thinking bots? Don't know... I play Close Combat: First To Fight, where one of the neat things is that both the OppFor AI and Marine AI have discipline levels and morale levels, where usually, the discipline and morale for the OpFor decreases the longer you engage them, until they either retreat or surrender. Halo 3 has very intelligent AI that also retreat when overwhelmed.

The point being, these two games are big, and Soldat is small. I don't know how far you can reasonably go with smart AI. If you set them to the highest difficulty level, they're pretty challenging... at times.

What Revelations 6:8 SHOULD say: "And behold a pale horse, and his name who sat on him was Death... and all of the United States Marine Corps followed with him."

Offline LORD KILLA

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
  • Happie
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2009, 04:29:41 pm »
wow
i am shocked,
most voted just for no, and not never  :o :o :o

Offline tehsnipah

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1093
  • Koreanah Snipah
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2009, 07:24:48 pm »
I don't understand... Why do you want to play with bots?

I mean it would be nice for zombie mod and boss mod, but HnS? I don't know....
"Prudence is good when pulling the trigger on a heavy firearm. It's all or nothing. So is life, wouldn't you say?"

Offline amb2010

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 264
  • Fear the dot ...
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2009, 07:42:50 pm »
wow
i am shocked,
most voted just for no, and not never  :o :o :o

Why would you be shocked? Soldat is mainly a multiplayer game, the point of multiplayer is of course to play with other real people not bots. Although I kinda agree with the bot thing, I think having smarter bots would improve Soldat both single and multiplayer because many sub-gamemodes use bots. It isn't top priority but would be a nice little update eventually when we run out of ideas for Soldat(if it ever happens..)
And as the lyrics go in the United State's national anthem: "America, f**k YEAH!".

Offline chutem

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2009, 12:11:43 am »
If you set them to the highest difficulty level, they're pretty challenging... at times.
Not in the slightest.
1NK3FbdNtH6jNH4dc1fzuvd4ruVdMQABvs

Offline Blue-ninja

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 1418
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2009, 12:55:29 am »
What makes bots half as intelligent as you may say is near-perfect waypointing.

Offline LORD KILLA

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
  • Happie
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2009, 08:25:34 am »
First i mean, more voted for "no"
I thought all will vote for "Never !!!", what always happens when i post pool with somehing of my idea/...

Well, I thing anyone will understand my idea
I thing if someone have got 136 IQ and post something, someone with just a smilar IQ will be able to understand....

Offline LORD KILLA

  • Camper
  • ***
  • Posts: 254
  • Happie
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2009, 08:26:53 am »
What makes bots half as intelligent as you may say is near-perfect waypointing.

I dont understand O.o sorry

Offline Shadow_Knight

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • ingame a.k.a Hitokiri Batoussai.
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2009, 12:44:23 pm »
Well, imagine bots getting better than people, after you play with them. Imagine you against a thinking bot and after he can practically eliminate you all the times, all you can do when playing with him is getting better than you are by beating "yourself". This would be a very good way to train yourself, or play in servers in bots vs ppl games. Imagine INF against bots, or a knife server against a bot team. That would be really challenging.
Besides, multiplayer is very cool, and soldat is a multiplayer game, but the player vs com part of the game is very weak, this would help a lot to improve it, and will help noobs becoming "less" noobs.
f12 on this one (as long as we get to choose between standard and thinkin bots).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 12:53:32 pm by Shadow_Knight »

Have you epicly failed today?

Offline echo_trail

  • Global Moderator
  • Rainbow Warrior
  • *****
  • Posts: 2222
  • ménage-à-trois
    • my last.fm
Re: New "thinking bots" ?
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2009, 06:11:00 pm »
[...]if there are "Inteligent Bots" more players will know soldat as the newest game with really thinking bots! And more ppl will play with them, they should have friends, too. So you can teach it.
[...] Other players will maybe copy pase code to a new bot, but if there are two bot wich already know the same things they will be same strong

Please read, -its realy good idea!!!  :'( :'( :'(

Let's call'em Skynet!
I fucking miss all you cunts!