1.5.0d Beta Weapons Discussion

[Colonel ONeill]

In my opinion, autos have the good strengh but it slows down ennemies too much and that's why it's not rare to see 3 autos in a same team during a cw.
We only should reduce that aspect and I think there will be less spray and more "skilled" players.

[STM1993]

In my opinion, autos have the good strengh but it slows down ennemies too much and that's why it's not rare to see 3 autos in a same team during a cw.
We only should reduce that aspect and I think there will be less spray and more "skilled" players.

Already done actually, the bullet push has been reduced to 75%, meaning it cannot slow down players as much as before.

[SDFilm]

^and thus significantly buffing the M79, and who wants that?

IMO the only thing low/no bullet-push will help the gameplay with is the Saw.

[Ragnaros]

Minigun's still a big joke.

try it before you say...

ive played online 4 or 5 matches,
guuuys....
MINIGUN IS NOW OVERPOWERED!!!11oneone xD

it can easily beat ak/steyr/mp5 now! some skill and nothing more! this gun is just awesome now!
sometimes its freakin unfair... it is much more unfair now than m79 rushing...
ive felt myself a big cheater Oo xD

anyways... time will show how it goes...

[Clawbug]

^and thus significantly buffing the M79, and who wants that?

IMO the only thing low/no bullet-push will help the gameplay with is the Saw.

Will make rushing easier, faster gameplay.

For example in Laos, or Steel, enemies can block your way out of the base with AUGs. Nothing you can do really in Steel. Applies to Division aswell. It's horrible.

[STM1993]

try it before you say...

I don't have a chance to try the 1.5 minigun online, but look at the SCTFL stats. It's still unreliable. Even if it is indeed powerful etc, the startup time is really a turn off, and when you run out of ammo you're as good as dead.

Even if there is a use, I don't believe the minigun is a weapon for CTF, it's more of an INF weapon.

^and thus significantly buffing the M79, and who wants that?

IMO the only thing low/no bullet-push will help the gameplay with is the Saw.

Mmm, true. Then again, it weakens the autos in a necessary way - imagine having a bunch of Auggers shooting you, which prevents you from even getting close. Solution? M79 rush - a very powerful offensive that crushes everything in its way, unless dealt with using fast-retreating long-range defensive tactics (this is where the Barrett and Ruger work best).

In addition, the M79 doesn't really follow the weapon rule of Auto > 1-hit > Semi > Auto. It's only the Barrett which really follows this rule. The Knife and LAW do not follow this rule, that's for sure.

Then comes the issue of the Barrett. It has such high bink, fires much slower than the M79 and it doesn't have explosive power, plus its very incapable for rushing compared to all other weapons. You can only use the Barrett 10 times and you're as good as dead after that, but chances are, you're dead before you can shoot or before you can land a 2nd shot. Its only advantage is that it uses fireinterval instead of reload (so backflipping etc won't affect its delay before firing), has incredible bullet speed which gives it super range and is difficult to evade. Then again, you're probably dead by then if it were a CTF. I'd say that the Barrett is more of an INF weapon than a CTF weapon, especially since INF maps are usually a lot bigger than CTF maps.

Ruger and Barrett are effectively the anti-M79s, yet they are facing quite a number of problems. Long-ranged autos don't have enough DOT to take care of fast M79 rushes. Not forgetting that nades can be destroyed by a M79 shot, which backfires against autos.

[homerofgods]

Try minigun seriously before you say anything, you have to play a special way with it, it's exelent for getting fast to the flag, and will kill any followers now.
I havn't got the chanse to play it much in 1.5, now I will use it Often, IF PEOPLE CAN ACCEPT IT AS A GUN!!

[Poop]

The fact that the balance is intended to be semis > autos > 1shot killers, MM said so.

This sounds all fine and dandy in theory, but in practice it is very very difficult to implement, simply due to the fact that even in the subgroup of semis/autos and 1-hits, weapons are very different to eachother. The only way you can make the whole Semis>Auto>1Hit work is by making weapons more and more similiar to eachother, and that is something which I think nobody will prefer.

The balance should be based on 2 aspects in my opinion. #1, try to give each weapon its niche, or intended use which should be somewhat different from every other weapon, and then tweak the balance around from there to equalize weapon usage. Ofcourse when we give AK -10 ammo it will become more balanced, but its also becoming more like the steyr and mp5. Obviously, making all weapons similiar = better balance, but is that more fun? The only way you can accomplish the whole semis > Autos > 1hits is by making all weapons similiar to one-another in those subgroups.

[STM1993]

I'll take my word back then, guess you guys are right about the minigun. Still, I wonder why people don't even bother to try the minigun, there has to be a better reason than following the old beliefs because the weapon balance for the minigun has already changed drasticallly.

Alright, I'm tired now, headin' to bed, plus I got work to finish over the weekends.

EDIT:
I'm convinced of the minigun's usefulness (I finally remember why), BUT I'm not convinced of its netcode issues yet. Does the minigun still have crappy reg or is it a lot better now? That's the main issue. I'm not so interested about the minigun surfing.

[Ragnaros]

...IF PEOPLE CAN ACCEPT IT AS A GUN!!

ahhh... thats right
when 1.5 Soldat WILL BE RELEASED then people will accept it... the only way, duh

[tehsnipah]

I actually enjoyed the 1.5 beta version of Minigun. Very fearful.

[scarface09]

The minigun will be awesome to use now. And I like how it will actually be able to push you up in the air not hovering as they said. Also that spas 75% boost is awesome too! And no self-bink for hk mp5 will make this weapon even more deadly!

[Colonel ONeill]

The minigun will be awesome to use now. And I like how it will actually be able to push you up in the air not hovering as they said. Also that spas 75% boost is awesome too! And no self-bink for hk mp5 will make this weapon even more deadly!

Concerning the spas, does it mean the boost is better or is it the contrary ? :Q

[STM1993]

Concerning the spas, does it mean the boost is better or is it the contrary ? :Q

It goes both ways.

Now, I find that I can't really stop an incoming enemy because the bullet push is weaker (defense is poorer). However, on the other hand, in one shot, the enemy is slowed down enough not to be pushed back to extremes. This makes the 2nd Spas shot more likely to hit and can deal more damage (better for offense).

In addition, you have a +1 bullet speed, which means it has slightly further range and slightly higher damage.

[biohazard]

 I agree that the deagle 1.5 is more overpowered, but much less charming than it was in the version 1.4.2
Now, with rapid reload, it is much easier to "spam" shots, instead of knowing the right time to shoot.

It would be better, perhaps, maintain the reload 94 (1.4.2) and improve the dmg for 182 or 181. To keep the main feature of Deagle: great damage, but do not spray.

[Duke]

I have been a rugartard since before most of you had even heard of soldat and i can honestly say that the rugar is now dead... I used to be able to get at least a 3:1 kill ratio and now i am barely breaking even... wtf did you guys do to it

[STM1993]

I have been a rugartard since before most of you had even heard of soldat and i can honestly say that the rugar is now dead... I used to be able to get at least a 3:1 kill ratio and now i am barely breaking even... wtf did you guys do to it

The beta testers have given the Ruger the following changes from 1.4.2:

-6 damage, -10 reload (faster reload), no bink at all.

As you can see, the damage has been decreased (nerfed) because the Ruger was actually overpowered - it was too easy to use AND too effective. However, it now has no bink and reloads slightly faster. If you can't get a good kill ratio with the Ruger after this change, then that means you aren't good enough with the Ruger in the first place; you're relying too heavily on the Ruger's power. If you are good at the Ruger, then the change shouldn't affect you too heavily since the Ruger's essence is still the same.

Consider practicing your aim a bit more and changing your play style a bit - it may be because you rushed with a Ruger when you are supposed to play defensively with it.

[pos Flo pos]

as for me spas is a new noobgun for small maps.
Deagles are a lot better and as I think they are the best weapon now.
As for the mp5 it is hard to say.. no bink but smaller dmg, easier to hit, harder to kill...

[tehsnipah]

I think the Ak should be teeeeeeny liiiiiitle bit stronger.

[STM1993]

I reckon:

DEs are currently extremely powerful and buffs are therefore unnecessary in future.
MP5 is very strong now and there shouldn't be a need for buffs.
AK is fine as it is. Tweaks to damage according to the pace.
Aug is very well-balanced.
Spas is actually overpowered... either damage or bullet speed should be lowered, or even fireinterval.
Ruger's reasonable but might need a slight damage buff in future when the pace increases further.
M79's okay. I don't think it needs any changes from now on.
Barrett's good. I don't think it'd need changes unless the pace increases again.
Minimi's fine, no changes needed so far.
Minigun seems good.
Socom is great, the tweaking (of damage) is well-adjusted to the pace.
Knife is perfect right now.
Saw is good but further buffs are always accepted.
LAW is well-buffed here and is perfect. Tweaking the reload time in future would do.