1.5.0d Beta Weapons Discussion

[Clawbug]

People FAIL to understand that weapons with SLOWER ammo are HARDER. This means, that weapons with fast bullets are EASY. E.g. moving target, AUG vs. Mp5. Spas vs. Ruger. M79 vs. Barrett.

Slower bullets have too many weaknesses compared to fast bullets(e.g. height advantages/disadvantages, arc, ...)

Though, then, slower fireinterval will help a little. E.g. auto is easier than semi.

Now guess which weapons should have more power than others? Kill = landed hits * damage.

[-Major-]

what does slower AMMO have to do with this? :D

[STM1993]

I guess I'll have to dismiss the Ruger as a more team-based weapon than a solo weapon now. I understand its nerf, though I don't really like it. Oh well...

Now, what about the Aug?

[Clawbug]

what does slower AMMO have to do with this?

* Harder to aim. Why? Shots need to be wa more predicted than for faster moving bullets. Why? Because it takes longer for the bullet to hit the target. Duh.
* Fast bullets mean less arc. Less arc means less time learning to hit. Less time learning to hit means easier weapon. See Ruger.
* Slower bullets loose more damage over range than faster bullets. This is a major disadvantage when chasing someone.
* Height disadvantage for slower bullets.

I see no reason why would weapon with such disadvantages be less powerful than weapon which does not have them.

[Avarax]

I must say that this in my oppinion is the best weapon changelog that I have seen in the history of Soldat. It adds a lot of "specialty" to each weapon except maybe for the Ruger, which needed the nerf whatsoever.

[-Major-]

what does slower AMMO have to do with this?

* Harder to aim. Why? Shots need to be wa more predicted than for faster moving bullets. Why? Because it takes longer for the bullet to hit the target. Duh.
* Fast bullets mean less arc. Less arc means less time learning to hit. Less time learning to hit means easier weapon. See Ruger.
* Slower bullets loose more damage over range than faster bullets. This is a major disadvantage when chasing someone.
* Height disadvantage for slower bullets.

I see no reason why would weapon with such disadvantages be less powerful than weapon which does not have them.

The word you're looking for is either fire interval or bullets.

[Clawbug]

what does slower AMMO have to do with this?

* Harder to aim. Why? Shots need to be wa more predicted than for faster moving bullets. Why? Because it takes longer for the bullet to hit the target. Duh.
* Fast bullets mean less arc. Less arc means less time learning to hit. Less time learning to hit means easier weapon. See Ruger.
* Slower bullets loose more damage over range than faster bullets. This is a major disadvantage when chasing someone.
* Height disadvantage for slower bullets.

I see no reason why would weapon with such disadvantages be less powerful than weapon which does not have them.

The word you're looking for is either fire interval or bullets.

Oeh then.

Weapons with faster bullet velocity are easier than those with slower bullet velocity.

Happy?

The worst thing in Soldatforums is that you cant use "speed" to describe bullet velocity. 80 % of the people interept weapon speed as RPM.

[Mallow007]

Ruger actually takes plenty of skill now. I like it

Are you insane? you dint mean RUGER you mean the new DESRUGER.....a stupid mix up of 2 guns.
Soldat is basically becoming an AUTO only game cause using the semis and 1 hitters is becoming harder.....

Ruger was overpowered.
Now it's not.

You get more of an appreciation when you make a kill with the ruger now.

I'm telling you this as a rugerer, by the way.

...Dude ruger was overpowered, ok now is underpowered its  A BABY WEAPON...now even a ak user can take you down.
I'm thinking in about quitting ruger because of this, the changes on in make an auto more reliable for team fight.
They just took the hunting ability of the ruger and kill it .

[excruciator]

...Dude ruger was overpowered, ok now is underpowered its  A BABY WEAPON...now even a ak user can take you down.
I'm thinking in about quitting ruger because of this, the changes on in make an auto more reliable for team fight.
They just took the hunting ability of the ruger and kill it .

It`s not THAT bad.. I'm still gonna use it.

But clarify this for me though.
-2% damage means...

body shot x 2 = no kill?

[Colonel ONeill]

You can still kill some one in 2 shots but you need to be close from him, I would say until half of the screen.

[STM1993]

It`s not THAT bad.. I'm still gonna use it.

But clarify this for me though.
-2% damage means...

body shot x 2 = no kill?

It is still possible to kill a full-health guy in two body shots. However, you must be pretty close to the opponent, otherwise it wouldn't work. It's until about half your screen.

Effectively, I'd say that the Ruger's now a more supportive weapon than a solo hunting weapon. It is strong but slow in close range, but weaker at long range. However, its firepower is still strong enough to take out weak opponents.

[excruciator]

Head x 2 = still kill
Head + body = kill

everything else, no dice at least for mid-long?(so no more leg+head kill?)

[homerofgods]

Do you realise how good minigun is now? on maps like snakebite for example..
when I used minigun in gathers I got banpoint for using it as a booster, just to get the flag. I wonder what they will say now, I have a feeling they will whine even more!
So since minigun has become so powerful now, I'm not sure I can use it, because everyone will complain.

Is there really something wrong with using it as a booster? It's not my fault it's made that way, I'm just using it the best way possible.

and saw will never be used now.

[STM1993]

Head x 2 = still kill
Head + body = kill

everything else, no dice at least for mid-long?(so no more leg+head kill?)

For NORMAL mode:
    * Head - 115%
    * Torso - 100%
    * Legs - 90%

At half the screen:

Head + Head = Kill
Head + Body = Kill
Head + Legs = Kill (low probability, but higher than body + body)
Body + Body = Kill (low probability)
Body + Legs = No kill
Legs + Legs = No kill

Any further (but still within your screen):
Head + Head = Kill
Head + Body = Kill
The rest = no kill



Older versions of the Ruger also follow this, but with different probabilities of a kill and different ranges depending on the damage.

[-Major-]

I still want to see these changes on the european gathers! haven't played on the wmed one in awhile though....

[Dusty]

I just tried the ruger out with the dummy bot. Took four to five shots to kill when the bot was on the other side of the screen. S:

[STM1993]

^ Where did you hit him at? Chances are you must have hit him in the legs very often and never/rarely hit the head. Watch out for ricochets as well.

I guess I can understand the balance much better now. However, I have to admit, the chainsaw's getting indirectly weaker.

[-Major-]

if it's a screen length the damage is reduced by 75% I think, and 1.5 screen lengths becomes 50% reduction.

[excruciator]

Then nobody in the right mind would complain about ruger ever again.

[STM1993]

I find the Minimi still quite debatable, and for the Aug I don't quite understand its balance, so I'd like to have some input about the Aug - its balance and its purpose.


Minimi:
The Minimi is actually the most powerful auto if you think about it. It has the highest ammo clip (50), 2nd highest DPS, long range and has the best DOT of all autos. This holds true even in the weakest version of the Minimi in Soldat history.

However, despite this, the Minimi has been less popular compared to the other autos. This is mainly because of the Minimi's portability - it was inaccurate when moving (which is not practical for an auto, especially when rushing) and the biggest turn-off was its horrendously long reload.

The increase in accuracy by reducing movementacc and lowering its self-bink is quite a possible debate. It makes the Minimi more powerful than it really needs to be, yet on the other hand it'd probably still be underused due to its long reload. Then again, without accuracy, the Minimi can't be the most powerful auto, and the Minimi has been built as the "Tank" - it dominates until it is out of ammo, whereby you'd probably get owned sooner or later unless you can find cover for 250 ticks. This makes the Minimi a more defensive weapon than an offensive weapon and it is more suitable in larger maps, like the Ruger.

Comparing the Minimi and the AK, the AK would be the more offensive alternative to the Minimi since it has a faster reload. Since most Soldat games are played more offensively than defensively, the Minimi would be much less popular than the AK. I think the AK was given that -1 damage to further contrast between the Minimi and the AK. The increase in accuracy is necessary to give it an edge against the other weapons which are growing increasingly powerful.

I almost forgot, regarding the issue of bink overriding movementacc. The Minimi is inaccurate when fired in bursts, but it becomes accurate after 4 shots. In this manner, the Minimi has the disadvantage of having to concentrate its fire for a long period of time to be effective, making it poor for pot shots.

What is your input about the Minimi's increase in accuracy?