Official Religious Debate Thread

[Twistkill]

I called it. I predicted lack of evidence, the afterlife, the contradictions, etc. all used by the atheist side in an attempt to prove God isn't real. Yet, he still loves you.

Have any of you ever been to church before? I mean more than those couple of times when you were 7 or 8 because your parents made you. Ever been to a youth/young adults group recently? How about a retreat? You can't base all of your arguments simply on empirical evidence and your own conclusions before learning about what He's done (and can do) and the lives He's transformed (and will continue to).

I think about religion as a way to gain money and have power under the believers. What else is it then¿?

Yup, that's exactly it. That money I donated to my youth leader? She spent it all on drugs and alcohol and lied about going to Romania for 3 months to help children in sex trafficking and mental institutions. All the tithes I've given? Yeah, the church spends all of those on our decorations. Which is funny, because we hardly have any, and the church has hardly changed in the past 50+ years it's been up. All the believers who come on Sunday mornings and Friday nights? We all snort cocaine in order to get high and have those false religious experiences you hate so much, which is ironic considering it doesn't concern you. You know, we can hide it that well.

[Espadon]

The sun might be green to you if your eyes lacked red receptors. If all humans in the world lacked red receptors, there would be no green color to the spectrum and so the color green would have never existed. 510nm wavelength will exist, but we wouldn't know it as green.

I agree in that I don't like the extra baggage that organized religion forces upon you; I'm sure they have origins in good will, but through humans, especially collectives with agendas to push, they are so easily perverted.

With my previous posts though, I'm only looking though at the positive effects since you guys are covering the negative aspects pretty well.

Both religion and science are powerful; please do remember that in being powerful, they both can be used for powerful good, but also powerful evil. Don't think that because science is 'justified' through daily observations that it is immune to false interpretations and manipulation.

[The Epic Guy]

Im not trying to disprove god, I just have no reason to believe in him/her/it.

[Espadon]

You might have no reason, but does that mean someone doesn't either? In pushing your own belief onto the world, you are just as guilty as the missionaries that force Christianity onto 'non-believers.'

[scarface09]

God...has no existence

It's been how many years old this world has been alive for? (64 million or something?). What sudden change has ever happend to convince or persuade that God even exists. There basically has never been a sign. Also, what the hell would God be doing for 64million (our) years. Hmmm, do they own their own world up there or something? It's all bs...religion is all about a money revenue...get it through ur dam heads.

[The Epic Guy]

You are right Espadon. Just posting here makes me guilty. I never push my beliefs, I just state them when asked. I also think that religion, for the most part, should be an individual thing.

I go to a catholic school, so I get beliefs pushed on me everyday. I also debate openly in my religion class.

[~Niko~]

God has the same characteristics than Horus, Mithra, Attis, Krishna and any other popular god the humanity had before. They all were born on December 25th, born from a virgin, and died crucifixed, for 3 days and then resurrected. A few of them made miracles too. These gods are all the same god, the god we always have, and the only that we'll, the Sun.

Sun ftw!

[Psycho]

There is contradictions in everything, if your life is so terrible that you believe there is no God, and that you just die that's the end of you, your soul, your spirit and your mind for all eternity, that's your choice.
Sorry to offend you(Atheists) by believing there is more to life than just living a few years and then dying and being buried with the hundreds of millions who took the same path.

Thinking like that is what makes religion so easy to spread around. You no longer feel worried about dieing, because there will be a grand afterlife just waiting for you to finally croak.
But not everyone needs that promise to push trough life. It has nothing to do with atheists having "terrible lives"

[Farah]

My philosophy:

I believe in God purely because there is nothing to prove or disprove his existence. I do not deny evolution however, this is something that from what I have seen has been sufficiently proven; but there's one problem I have difficulty in understanding if we were to use this to deny God's existence. His existence and evolution are not mutually exclusive, no matter how much one denies it you can have these two concepts working hand in hand. I'll explain why by first explaining that I do in fact deny that humans came along by evolving from monkeys. Just because we share 98.7% of our DNA with the chimpanzee, the fact that they have similar behavioural patterns to us and can do some basic human functions isn't just enough evidence for me. We share 85% of our DNA with mice, and about 50% with a banana. So what I'm trying to say is that I think some superior being or something set our world into motion and left us alone with our primitive minds and we as humans, and evolution did the rest.
Now, onto the creation of this universe. Believing that the Big Bang set our universe into motion poses the same crucial questions that believing that God created us all; what created the energy? what created those particles to carry those particles and collide? who created god? So, I don't know what happened, and until scientific proof of either of these theories, or another theory for that matter comes into light, I don't know and I feel safe believing in one or the other! Seriously, if God doesn't exist then I rot in my grave and cease to exist, I'm fine with that. If he does exist and I picked the wrong belief and end up in purgatory, I'm still fine with it. Uncertainty is bliss in this situation.

[UnknownSniper]

There is contradictions in everything, if your life is so terrible that you believe there is no God, and that you just die that's the end of you, your soul, your spirit and your mind for all eternity, that's your choice.
Sorry to offend you(Atheists) by believing there is more to life than just living a few years and then dying and being buried with the hundreds of millions who took the same path.

Thinking like that is what makes religion so easy to spread around. You no longer feel worried about dieing, because there will be a grand afterlife just waiting for you to finally croak.
But not everyone needs that promise to push trough life. It has nothing to do with atheists having "terrible lives"

Yet another reason debating is so pointless: Everything you say is twisted around to better fit the needs of the other debater(s).

As for the people saying religion is for money, religions have been around for hundreds, and in some cases thousands of years, and you're not forced to give money to the church. It's called good will.

[jettlarue]

Here is a list comprised of similarities between paegan gods and jesus, their are a lot.

Hercules:
Father was God.
Mother was a human.
Loved by many
Could have chosen easy lives
Were betrayed
Betrayer hung himself
Died painful death
Were rewarded with some form of Heaven and Immortality

Horus:
Born on December 25(
Born to a virgin mother
Called the "Son/Sun of God"
Crucified
Resurrected after 3 days

Just two out of many. Although obviously I cannot prove that these myths are "correct" it should be likewise. Do some research outside of this, and I mean by that actually read the stories not just read what others said about the stories. A bunch of the pagan gods have similar stories, and jesus is simply an adaptation of them created into a religion.

[GSx_Major]

His existence and evolution are not mutually exclusive, no matter how much one denies it you can have these two concepts working hand in hand.

Not sure what God you believe in, as evolution and the big bang theory are completely incompatible with christianity. And while God and evolution could work together, the bible could not fit into that mix, as God is logical and not a God of confusion, with the bible being true and clearly saying evolution is untrue they are mutually exclusive.

There is contradictions in everything, if your life is so terrible that you believe there is no God, and that you just die that's the end of you, your soul, your spirit and your mind for all eternity, that's your choice.
Sorry to offend you(Atheists) by believing there is more to life than just living a few years and then dying and being buried with the hundreds of millions who took the same path.

Yet another reason debating is so pointless: Everything you say is twisted around to better fit the needs of the other debater(s).

Or maybe you phrased it poorly. I read, "atheists don't believe (and are offended by the idea) that there's anything more to life than living and then dying, and they don't believe in God because their lives are so terrible."

There's a thin line between sarcasm and religion. I try not to guess which side people are on.

As for the people saying religion is for money, religions have been around for hundreds, and in some cases thousands of years, and you're not forced to give money to the church. It's called good will.

Many do/have done.

[Psycho]

There is contradictions in everything, if your life is so terrible that you believe there is no God, and that you just die that's the end of you, your soul, your spirit and your mind for all eternity, that's your choice.
Sorry to offend you(Atheists) by believing there is more to life than just living a few years and then dying and being buried with the hundreds of millions who took the same path.

Thinking like that is what makes religion so easy to spread around. You no longer feel worried about dieing, because there will be a grand afterlife just waiting for you to finally croak.
But not everyone needs that promise to push trough life. It has nothing to do with atheists having "terrible lives"

Yet another reason debating is so pointless: Everything you say is twisted around to better fit the needs of the other debater(s).

As for the people saying religion is for money, religions have been around for hundreds, and in some cases thousands of years, and you're not forced to give money to the church. It's called good will.

Yes, debating is so pointless when someone oppose your absurd statements. I'm simply saying you have the wrong idea of what an atheist is.

[jettlarue]

You're making this a false choice! Please understand that I am a very active Catholic, as well as an aspiring scientist who hopes to do research in (physics|chemistry|biology) for the rest of his life. It is NOT a choice between religion and science and do not make it one.

As for rejecting both I think that's just keeping oneself in ignorance.

You have misread. It has no effect which one is chosen, or either. They are both one in the same. As for accepting both I find you in a greater amount of ignorance for basing your life around two conflicting rationales. And to add to your ignorance; even to my post, you mistook the fact that I did not say whether or not I approve or disprove of any "theories" or "explanations" on either topic. How can I be ignorant of a fact that does not exist?

There is no sin that, if repented, will not be forgiven. This blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, or the Holy Spirit, is final obstinacy. Refusing to repent even until death. More generally, willful rejection of God’s grace and forgiveness. These passages are saying that if sins are not repented, then they shall not be forgiven. If we continue to reject the Holy Spirit by ignoring its calls to conversion until we die, we cannot be forgiven. If however, we repent (even of the worst blasphemies), we are forgiven.

I can destroy your argument with a direct quote from the bible bitch! (slightly sarcastic)

Everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

Now if you argue with me on this fact you are blaspheming your religion, haha I guess I have an up on this argument.

Nothing about this debate bothers me more than the ignorance of one who follows a religion as much as you, and has little to no understanding of the scriptures contained; to me that is the greatest form of ignorance to truly believe you will burn forever if you fuck up and dont say sorry in 70 years, and have no apparant sorrow for all the others in the world who are going to be going to burn in hell for eternity instead. If I believed in a religion the way you do, my depression would skyrocket; luckily ignorance is bliss eh?

[Espadon]

Q: When some people say "Oh God hath spoken to me and has ordained blahblah," how do they know it's really God?

God right now just talked to me and said you guys are all wrong, especially you, Escalona.

[Lord Frunkamunch]

You might have no reason, but does that mean someone doesn't either? In pushing your own belief onto the world, you are just as guilty as the missionaries that force Christianity onto 'non-believers.'

Not really. I can see the point you're trying to make (and I can appreciate trying to keep this balanced), but the situations are somewhat different while you insist on giving them equal merit simply because they are opposed. Going out and telling random people about god is very different than debating his existence in an area meant for that purpose. By your logic, any argument to the contrary of a stated opinion is unwarranted. I wouldn't consider an attempt to prevent the spread of misinformation 'guilt'.

[Espadon]

While what I said appears to be strictly a foil to Epic Guy's statement at first blush, it moreso is a challenge posed towards the attitude at which we approach religion/science at a much greater scale. Please don't be petty.

[Wormdundee]

Q: When some people say "Oh God hath spoken to me and has ordained blahblah," how do they know it's really God?

God right now just talked to me and said you guys are all wrong, especially you, Escalona.

I think the reasoning behind this is that people who strongly believe in God will mistake their own intuition for some sort of message. I think people underestimate the power of the subconscious mind regarding how much effect it has on what we do. For instance, if you have a feeling that you should definitely do something but you can't explain why you have this feeling, some people might assume this is a message from God. Others would say that your subconscious has simply 'caught' something that has inclined you to do this thing which your conscious missed.

Interesting theory anyways.

[Espadon]

Well, God tells me you're full of bullshit.

You too Frunk xD

[Lord Frunkamunch]

While what I said appears to be strictly a foil to Epic Guy's statement at first blush, it moreso is a challenged posed towards the attitude at which we approach religion/science at a much greater scale. Please don't be petty.

An attitude which makes perfect sense to anyone who believes that what they're saying is the truth. Anyone who thinks that the issue at hand is even mildly important will obviously state so, and give the reasons why. It's the basis of an argument. Claiming that doing so is violating the right of another to believe what they wish renders the very concept of the debate pointless. You can hold that position if you want, but it doesn't make sense to share that thought to everyone willingly participating in a religious debate thread.

<keep in mind that I'm talking about both sides here, not just the position I hold. I'm assuming that's what you meant by "don't be petty" and you weren't just being a dick>